Treaty of Brest-Litovsk post-CP victory map!
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
Do any of you fail to realize exactly how small "Austrian Silesia" is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Silesia
Not a terroritory worth fighting over for a country like germany.
In any case, I sersiously think that Anschloß is bad b/c it upsets the political inbalance in the Reichstag. To much catolic member puts to much power in the southern states, undermining Prussian dominiation. Plus, multi-ethnic lands aren't that good to annex either. You'll have to put utility before national pride. It's better to simply take advantage of a weaken Austria (weakened just like the British empire was weakened after WW2 in OTL), and turn it into a de-facto detachment of the German Empire. The way I see it, Germany will hold a strong position in europe, annexing the rich, industrial regions of france, gaining a larger hold on colonies, and economically dominating europe.
Also, another issue is the baltic states. Will the Baltic German nobility be restored with a "Junker" status? However, I think this will put the area in the backdrop of the heavily industralized areas of western germany. The fuedal class is probably going to die out.
Finally, a question to Scarecrow. Usually, how long does it take you to make maps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Silesia
Not a terroritory worth fighting over for a country like germany.
In any case, I sersiously think that Anschloß is bad b/c it upsets the political inbalance in the Reichstag. To much catolic member puts to much power in the southern states, undermining Prussian dominiation. Plus, multi-ethnic lands aren't that good to annex either. You'll have to put utility before national pride. It's better to simply take advantage of a weaken Austria (weakened just like the British empire was weakened after WW2 in OTL), and turn it into a de-facto detachment of the German Empire. The way I see it, Germany will hold a strong position in europe, annexing the rich, industrial regions of france, gaining a larger hold on colonies, and economically dominating europe.
Also, another issue is the baltic states. Will the Baltic German nobility be restored with a "Junker" status? However, I think this will put the area in the backdrop of the heavily industralized areas of western germany. The fuedal class is probably going to die out.
Finally, a question to Scarecrow. Usually, how long does it take you to make maps?
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The theme of this timeline does not (yet?) have Austria - Hungary breaking up, so discussion of who takes what from Austria seems premature at best. While such contingencies would no doubt be planned by the Germans, it was in actual fact their aim to prop Austria up after the war, not contribute to her demise. Berling would not want millions more Catholic socialists coming into the Reich. That would destroy Prussian conservatism in the Reichstag (not to mention curtail the aggressive foreign policy of the government).
Since Austria does better militarily in this timeline, the nationalities would probably be willing to give federation a chance as opposed to striking out on their own and getting absorbed in Germany.
Does anyone have any ideas, on the other hand, about what Germany might do with the 'Volga Germans' ie, principality, etc.? Leave them alone in Russia? There were about two million of them before they disappeared thanks to Stalin, so a sizeable minority.
Since Austria does better militarily in this timeline, the nationalities would probably be willing to give federation a chance as opposed to striking out on their own and getting absorbed in Germany.
Does anyone have any ideas, on the other hand, about what Germany might do with the 'Volga Germans' ie, principality, etc.? Leave them alone in Russia? There were about two million of them before they disappeared thanks to Stalin, so a sizeable minority.
Max Sinister
Banned
Germany had the plan to annex Crimea and settle Germans there. (Yep, the idea is older than Hitler.) The Volga Germans could be a start, since it's the questions whether many Germans would want to leave their country for the East...
aye, federation it is!Franz Josef II said:
now the question of Russia arrises. who should win the civil war, Reds or Whites? even after the war, Russia is going to be in a far worse position then in OTL. the crippling ToBL is still in effect (was it one third of all coal and iron and industry gone?, some large number like that)
so the psot-CW russia is going to be looking for new resources, and will take a while to get back on its feet...
Maybe the Germans send some 'freikorps' units to help the whites, much like the Entente/Americans did (and as I recall, some German troops fought in the East too, otl). The main question is who could the Germans support? Perhaps the Whites manage to rescue the Imperial family before the soviets kill them all? Some other family member who escaped? Maybe impose a German prince in St. Petersburg? (probably not very likely). Maybe they support that admiral over in Siberia (forget the chap's name, but he had the Czechs fighting for him at one point). Main point is the Germans want someone who is going to respect the new order of things.
In this case I think a second war will surely happen around the same time as otl, possibly involving Italy, France, and Russia: bad feelings and all that. Or, maybe not. Maybe they get very conservative governments that cooperate with Berlin.
In this case I think a second war will surely happen around the same time as otl, possibly involving Italy, France, and Russia: bad feelings and all that. Or, maybe not. Maybe they get very conservative governments that cooperate with Berlin.
Bismarck said:
The Germans brought Lenin to Russia in a 'sealed train' with the specific task of signing a peace treaty and ending German affairs on the Eastern Front, so yes, Lenin will be in Russia during this time. How long he holds on to power will be anyone's guess, since once the general war is over and the Germans have what they wanted, Lenin has served his purpose and will probably be discarded. Any idea as to what, if any, support the Whites will get from Don Cossacks, Ukraine? What about France and England?
either way, a Russia restricted to post BL borders is screwed, to quoth WikipediaGlen said:
In all, the treaty took away a third of Russia's population, half of her industry and nine-tenths of her coal mines.
so exactly how much of a threat this *Russia is going to pose to Germany will be interesting. she may just try to industrialise in other areas, but I think it will be quite some time before she is a threat.
Glen
Moderator
Scarecrow said:either way, a Russia restricted to post BL borders is screwed, to quoth Wikipedia
In all, the treaty took away a third of Russia's population, half of her industry and nine-tenths of her coal mines.
so exactly how much of a threat this *Russia is going to pose to Germany will be interesting. she may just try to industrialise in other areas, but I think it will be quite some time before she is a threat.
So the Kaiser's Mitteleuropa plan will essentially succeed! How...surprising...
The loss of Ukraine and the Caucacus would be too much for the new russia to bear. Ukraine produced 90% of Russia's coal at the time of the Revolution. In addition, the loss of grain from Ukraine would cause widespread famine, and the loss of oil in the cacaucus is would extremely degrade russia. Russia is already in a poor state, it wouldn't have the resources reduce and professionalize its army and industrialize the peasent population. Plus, the Japanese presence in Vladivostok may or may not go away.
So then probably Russia will eventually be hooked into the German mitteleuropa as a market for German goods. After the Civil War I imagine German industry would invest in Russia: cheap labour, etc. Also I think that the Americans would invest in Russia to try and rebuild some industry, etc., simply as a means to prevent total German control over most of Eurasia
No doubt the British would aim at this as well since a more stable, (somewhat) independent Russia would in some small way make the post war period less scary: ie, the British aren't facing off against Germany + most of Europe alone. I think also in this timeline the Americans will not be as isolationist, maybe they will not become isolationist at all.
No doubt the British would aim at this as well since a more stable, (somewhat) independent Russia would in some small way make the post war period less scary: ie, the British aren't facing off against Germany + most of Europe alone. I think also in this timeline the Americans will not be as isolationist, maybe they will not become isolationist at all.