Transport America Redux
- Thread starter TheMann
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I was wondering if you were going to go into the next decade; 2010-2020. It might be a little challenging, but from this TL, it seems relatively stable. Also, did the U.S. get involved in the current 2 warzone situation ITTL that is going on in OTL?
Probably not. If TheMann's Canadian Force-wank can serve as a guide, Gore wouldn't get involved in Iraq, and without that, wrap-up in Afghanistan comes sooner (circa. 2007 or so). There shouldn't be an active warzone in which the U.S. was involved in ITTL 2011 (unless, of course, it decided to do something about Darfur...)
Come to think of it, the U.S. will probably sign a much-more-effective Kyoto Protocol ITTL (heck, it might even be a big proponent behind it
), which goes a long way of mitigating climate change (by the way, who's getting Nobel Peace Prize ITTL 2007?)Marc A
Nice stuff
This seems overall quite nice--and plausible.
I do have a question: Early on, you mentioned that steam was maintained on one passenger route. I like that--a tie in to the past. I do think a mention of the implications--and the popularity the line would keep--would be nice. It would, however, need either new locomotives or full rebuilds.
This seems overall quite nice--and plausible.
I do have a question: Early on, you mentioned that steam was maintained on one passenger route. I like that--a tie in to the past. I do think a mention of the implications--and the popularity the line would keep--would be nice. It would, however, need either new locomotives or full rebuilds.
The way I read the first Gulf war ITTL, Saddam was taken out then. That resulted in instabilities then, including an oil shock, but was not an issue by 2001.
Truthfully, I didn't have much change for steam from OTL until the 80s. Union Pacific's 844 was never retired - it was taken out of active service in 1960 and moved to the job of pulling excursions, a job for which the 844 is well-suited (it's top speed rated for 120 mph). Following the employee-led restoration of Challenger 3985 and the popularity of the Steamtown, virtually all of the railroads set up their own steam excursion programs. These have more expensive tickets, of course, but they are great goodwill ambassadors and are usually full.
In the winter of 1984-85, American Coal Enterprises commissioned a number of big steamers - C&O 614, N&W 2156, SP 4294, UP 3977, Reading 2101 and Santa Fe 5030 - to test out whether steam could work in mainline service - 614, 2101 and 5030 were bought outright by ACE's owner and steam aficionado Ross Rowland for the job. The proved up to it in terms of fuel costs but well behind in maintenance duties. All six engines however remain able to run. In the aftermath of September 11, 2001, several of the railroads and historical societies offered up their steamers to assist Amtrak on power moves, but that offer was not taken up.
Union Pacific
The Union Pacific "Heritage Fleet" is the largest fleet of steam engines in the US. 844 and 3985 were ultimately followed by Big Boy 4023, Challenger 3977, 2-10-2 5511, Ten-wheeler 1243 and switcher 4466, the last two of which are operated by museums and not really fit for mainline service. 5511 operates out of Southern California, usually on routes that require bigger power, because that engine is only speed rated for 45 mph but works nicely on tough mountain routes.
Norfolk and Western
Operates J class 4-8-4 611, A class 2-6-6-4 1218 and Y6a class 2-8-8-4 2156. All three see regular excursion service, usually out of Norfolk or Roanoke, Virginia, out as far as Indianapolis. Y6a was used in 1984 tests to see if a modern steam locomotives were viable for mainline freight service, and N&W regularly uses all three units to move freight on ferry moves, something which none of the three have any problem with.
Southern Pacific
SP's steam fleet has four members - Pacific 2472, GS series steamers 4449 (the famous Daylight) and 4460 and cab-forward 4294. 2472 is not regularly operated, but the other three are. 4294 is the only survivor of the cab-forwards and is famous for that reason.
Conrail
Conrail owns no steamers of its own, but they do allow a number of private operators to run on their lines, and regular runners are North Star Rail, which owns Milwaukee Road 261 and Frisco 1352, and Rowland, who owns C&O 614. (Rowland also owns Santa Fe 5030, which runs on ATSF rails.) 261 has made numerous movie appearances as well. The Michigan State Trust for Railway Preservation (owner of Pere Marquette 1225) and the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society (owner of Nickel Plate 765)both also regularly use Conrail and Erie Lackawanna lines.
Santa Fe
Santa Fe, like Conrail, does not own any steam engines, but works with historical societies and allows steam excursions to use its rails. Santa Fe 2926, 3751 and 5030 are both regular runners on Santa Fe rails, the latter two owned by historical societies and the third owned by Ross Rowland.
You may not call that much change, but that's a lot of additional engines I need to ride behind!
Most of those were restored or proposed for restoration at some point or another, and its only due to insurance difficulties that most of them went out of service. (Absolutely the case with the NW 611 and 1218 and SP 2472.) Several years ago, I got to ride behind SP 4449 doing its thing, and one of things on my bucket list is to get a ride behind UP 3985.
Mann just note on your great timeline the ALCO plant is how comply gone with plans to redevelop it with condominmiums, riverfront access, a marina, and retail outlets. Only building left on the site are RPI's(Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) small nuclear reactor and the building owned by STS Steel. I don't no there was nuclear reactor on the site it was in today newspaper and city want reactor remove.
BTW, are you gonna come back to this TL The Mann, and The Future is Green? They're so wonderful!
"There's a million miles of history..shinin' in the sun...we're the Union Pacific and our story's just begun!"
I just finished reading this timeline...You gotta keep this rolling
I just finished reading this timeline...You gotta keep this rolling
Why in Pickering? If an AutoTrain terminal was built in the Toronto area, it would be best to built it in the western GTA as that's where distance to the border is shortest.
Would the downtowns and mainstreets of the cities be saved in this TL? The interstate system helped to drive more people out of the cities and into suburbs; strip malls and disintegration of most downtowns. It seems as though it would have at least saved some of the nostalgia.
Yes. The better transit of this TL has allowed many of the suburbs to survive. They are better off than before, and the manufacturing changes of the 1980s meant that many smaller firms stayed in the cities, broadening the tax base and allowing for better infrastructure and transport, both by road and rail. The overall result is that the era of the growth being in the suburbs ground to a halt in the 1970s, and by the late 1980s had reversed. Many of the worst examples of urban renewal were here town down early, refurbished or simply never built. The interstate system did help the growth of the suburbs, for a while. But here, the better transit systems meant that it there was less traffic, and in the cities it was easier to get around, and the services were better. By the end of 1990s, urban living in many major US cities (New York, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Miami, Seattle, Atlanta, San Diego, Indianapolis, Dallas-Fort Worth) was taking people from the suburbs, trading the wide spaces and big houses for better schools and services, and short commutes.
What about ocean travel? Has the drop in American flagged shipping happen? How about the SS United States, Was that withdrawn or the other US flagged ships?
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Does this TL lead more of American old Department stores survive. Maybe the Kmart Corporation still operates stores under the Kresge name with Kmart stores in the suburbs and smaller Kresge in the downtowns and mainstreets of the cities. Among the discount chains I can picture in this TL that Walmart, Kmart, and Target are the kings of the suburbs with Woolworths and Kresge becoming the kings of the downtowns and mainstreets of American cities. Among the higher end Department stores the merged between May Department Stores and Federated Department Stores never happens. Maybe Montgomery Ward is still around.
What's going on with the American space program. Maybe this mission takes place:http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/2011/12/viking-on-moons-of-mars-1972.html
What's going on with the American space program. Maybe this mission takes place:http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/2011/12/viking-on-moons-of-mars-1972.html
Not really. An AutoTrain is likely to head south on what is now Amtrak's Adirondack line from Montreal. Here, it could start further west to get the TO market, but it's going to go east to Montreal and then south. IMO.
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