trans-exclusionary feminism as dominate view

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Noscoper, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:23 AM.

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  1. Noscoper Well-Known Member

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  2. Colonel Zoidberg Well-Known Member

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    If the popular view of trans women is as sex perverts (like if the radical right’s view where they just try to sneak into women’s restrooms to prey on them) becomes a legitimate fear rather than total bullshit, trans women may be feared and distrusted in the feminist community. That and, if the dominant image of trans people is a lesbian transitioning into a straight man (gross oversimplification, I know, but picture if everyone thought all trans people were Chaz Bono,) being trans would be seen as joining the bad guys.

    Basically feminists would have to learn to distrust trans people for those they call TERFs to be considered mainstream.
     
  3. Minniehh Banned

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    I think TERFs problems with Trans folk isnt that theyre trans but that they see trans people taking away attention from womens issues, in effevt hijacking feminism
     
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  4. YYJ Well-Known Member

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    This is an important discussion with many angles and implications, but i do not think that it is an alternate history discussion.
     
  5. overoceans Well-Known Member

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    I dunno. It deals with the history of feminism, and which tendencies were dominant at a given time. So I'm not sure it's that different than something like "Keep the Democratic party as the party of conservative white southerners", for example.

    Granted, given that it's more of an ongoing concern, it might run the risk of lapsing into a debate aboout the issues involved(ie. were feminists wrong to accept transgenderism as a concept), rather than about what happened in the objective history.
     
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  6. overoceans Well-Known Member

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    Feminist Current

    That site is one of the last-ditch holdouts against trans-inclusion among feminists. They're also very anti-pornography, which may or may not be relevant.
     
  7. YYJ Well-Known Member

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    Just try and get into the granularity of this as a alt historical topic without getting into the issues.

    Here are some What-Ifs that might get some traction:

    What if more countries took a position like the current government of Iran's that homosexuality is a sin, but transitioning is just fine. So the government facilitates and encourages transition surgery for gays and lesbians. What would be the social effect on gay culture?

    What if intersex people or men transitioning to women win their court cases and are allowed to compete in women's sport? What will be the effect on women's sport at a high level, where the stakes are money or national prestige? Will women's sport still exist?
     
  8. overoceans Well-Known Member

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    ^^ As you can see from reading some of the articles in Feminist Current, there is a fear among some gays and lesbians that increasing trans-acceptance will lead to a new form of anti-gay thinking, in which homosexuals are encouraged to think of themselves as members of the opposite sex(rather than as homosexuals), and get reassignment surgery. IOW a gay woman, for example, has her body cut up in order to become an ostensible heterosexual man.

    I believe these tensions actually go back a long way, so maybe find some way to keep the relevant ideological currents alive in both the gay rights movement and feminism.
     
  9. overoceans Well-Known Member

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    But what makes social conservativism in Iran more willing to accept the idea of transgenderism, as opposed to social conservativism in the west?

    Trying not to get into a debate about the pros and cons of the transgender schematum, but it seems that in the west, the idea now is that the underlying principle behind the acceptance of homosexuality also entails the acceptance of transgenderism, and conversely for conservatives, that rejecting one entails rejecting the other.
     
  10. YYJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the Iranian policy(?) is an unexpected reframe of the issue. Instead of oppress this minority, we will correct them, through technology! I don't know what makes this case in Iran. Perhaps cultural? The regime is extremely socially conservative, but they are not technophobic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_Iran
     
  11. David T Well-Known Member

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    I really think this belongs in Chat. It is really about a current political issue.
     
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  12. Colonel Zoidberg Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know if I would post that link. I don’t think the admin here is too keen on misandry, transphobia, or conspiracy theories, and linking to a site that brazenly advocates all three may be a bad idea.
     
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  13. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

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    Closed per posted policy on current politics.
     
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