Totalatarian Europe 1945--latest reasonable POD

I'm looking at a possible yarn involving cross world travel, and looking for the latest reasonable POD to have Europe be essentially a totalatarian state, or a collection of totalatarian states, by 1945. A few free countries of mimimal military potential are quite OK--Switzerland or the Scandanavian countries--but no major free countries in Europe have any effective military. Europe must be as something passing for peace--perhaps an uneasy peace between dictatorships, or perhaps rebuilding after a conquest.

Come to think about it, at least one reasonably free scandanavian country free would be a good thing.
 
Nazi victory in World War 2 would fit the bill. Chances are Sweeden and Finland would come out intact in this scenario.
 
Defeating Britain

A German victory in World War Two, that removes Britain as a major naval power, would be quite tough. For plot reasons, there has to be a good reason for Britain being out of the military picture--not just staying out of the war and watching Europe fall. It need not be Nazi's, but it has to be a regime that would be completely hostile to such quaint ideas as democracy.

Rethinking, and POD after about 1920 will do nicely--or perhaps even a little bit earlier.
 
Mosley in Britain, Petain in France is all you really need to ensure totalitarian Europe for a few decades.
 
Britain suffering a far worse depression and perhaps being under terrible leadership in the early 1930s could* see Mosley and co take power and, eventually, align with the Nazis. That would pretty much seal Europe's fate come 1939 if France hadn't already become fascist too. The USA would need to be isolationist, which again isn't hard (killing FDR is all you'd need to start from).

*It's a very, very big if, however. Britons don't seem to respond to the same cues that Germans did in lining up behind Hitler. Uniforms look a bit silly, et cetera.
 
FaT might fit the bill.


Darlan and Ciano both in power post war, the Soviets have a double helping of Europe including Austria and most of Germany. As a whole, the only democracies there are in Scandinavia, the Low Countries and the UK.
 
easy .. have allied forces bog down in Sicily or southern italy... then D-day fails in the worst way.. The red army then marches to the Atlantic :eek: :D
 
Good ideas!

These are all good ideas--but most of them still leave Britain as a problem. I need the UK either totalitarian, occupied, or with its teeth pulled. I need for there to be no American allies available in Europe, with the possible exception of a still independent Scananavia.
 
These are all good ideas--but most of them still leave Britain as a problem. I need the UK either totalitarian, occupied, or with its teeth pulled. I need for there to be no American allies available in Europe, with the possible exception of a still independent Scananavia.

More or less, you are asking for a successful Sea Mammal, or Mosley taking power.
 
These are all good ideas--but most of them still leave Britain as a problem. I need the UK either totalitarian, occupied, or with its teeth pulled. I need for there to be no American allies available in Europe, with the possible exception of a still independent Scananavia.


well your not going to get the sea mammal crowed going ...

best bet with britian is they either go pro soviet in my scenario.. or go facisit in some way.. but you still have to deal with the United States supporting the UK so that may make it harder for the UK to fall in to those camps...
 
What if...

What if the infamous German / Russian non-aggression pact got signed a lot earlier ? Then Russia summarily grabs all its toys, leaving West in quandary.

Germany isn't ready to Blitz Eastwards, and the anti-communist backlash sees fascist sympathies flower in UK, France, Spain & Italy. A panicked witch-hunt would do it. 'Reds Under The Beds', 'Fifth Columnists' etc etc.

Austria can be grabbed by Germany 'to protect from communism'. Sweden and Switzerland stay mostly neutral. Finland fights and loses its Winter War a lot earlier.

Keep Ed Vlll on throne in UK, 'For The Good Of The Nation' because his sympathies align with national mood...

( And the US link: They were drifting towards fascism-- Would not need much for J Edgar Hoover & Co to go on warpath.)

Uh, have Russia build a West Wall to prevent attack, and grow it into an Iron Curtain to halt flood of refugees from their seized territories. 'Western Axis' match it with a 'Maginot Line East'.

My guess is that Greece, Turkey and Middle East would reluctantly align with the 'Western Axis' rather than be consumed piecemeal, fought-over or fought through...

Given that, in extremis, communist totalitarianism is barely distinguishable from the communist variety, we'll soon see a lot of secret police, denunciations, arrests without trial and summary shootings while attempting to escape from fifth floor windows...

In effect, you have a Cold War start in mid 30s rather than at end of WW2...

One gotcha is that you have some superb naval manoeuvres, with French, Italian, RN and German battleships working together, and a fleet of U-boats waiting to interdict any Russian naval sallies...

Serious butterfly, IMHO, is that there is no Pacific War: Japan allies with Western Axis, and US goes along. So, No Pearl Harbour, no casus bellus...

Do we see combined US / IJN force invade Siberia ??

Do we see an atom bomber fly over pole from Alaska in ~1947 to level Stalingrad ??
 
A totalitarian Europe isn't really all that hard to pull off. Spain, Germany, Italy, the Soviet Union are already there. Fascism/extreme rightist sentiment were widespread and popular in most other European nations, from France to Bulgaria, in the 1920s and 1930s. Hundreds of thousands of Americans flirted with various forms of totalitarianism at the time.

Make the Great Depression even worse than it was, give people an external threat that requires "firm action" to counter (communism? that evil Romania?), and promise them jobs and prosperity from a military build-up. By 1940 you have a dozen countries arming themselves to the teeth and pointing fingers at each other.

Britain is the fly in the ointment. Perhaps this: Edward remains on the throne, perhaps by persuading Wallis Simpson to accept royal mistress status. There's a coup attempt by communists aimed at overthrowing the King and seizing Parliament. They expect a general strike and mass uprising to support them. Instead, they are defeated by a coalition led by Mosley and Edward, and ultra-nationalists win the next election. They retreat from European involvement behind the Channel and the RN to concentrate on domestic and Commonwealth issues.

Bonus points: The Bolsheviks fail in Russia in 1920 and Russia itself becomes a fascist dictatorship.
 
NO Sea Mammal

I do not want or need an invasion of England. I need England to be militarily irrelavant to Europe, or part of the totalitarian situation. Failing that, a Britian hostile enough to the USA that it won't even consider allying with it--though smart enough not to fight it. In that case, Britian could be neutral, possibly.
 
Let Hitler die during WWI. Instead of the Nazi there is a "normal" fascist party usurping power in Germany (basically a coalition of big buisness, old nobles, and the Freikorps). They also push for remilitarisation an expansion but are more cautious and therefore don't start a war.
In the meantime the turbulent french republic also suffers a fascist takeover. Poland and the Balkan are already ruled by various fascists, so the only democratic countries left are Switzerland and Czechoslowakia and the benelux countries.
 
For Britain all you need is a pro-fascist group and/or a big red scare. You could have the German communists win the civil war in the 1920s a communist Germany would totally startle Britain and France. France might lean towards Action Francaise and Britain towards Mosley. Chamberlain could be seen as ineffective and England could have its government replaced by a coup.
 

Hkelukka

Banned
Best I could think of is a Germany that prepares well for a 1942 Barbarossa. The extra time is spent building V-weapons like crazy combined with a far more aggressive Sub-War that tries to pull of considerably more Scapa-flow type attacks combined with airpower.

This would mean that instead of Battle of Britain involving airunits and massive pilot losses for the axis, we have a "Siege of Britain" whereby the axis suffer almost no losses to their pilots, managable losses to their sub units and the entire south of UK is under daily missile hits, now it isnt enough to have any real effect on the UK militarily or economically, but it is annoying enough to cause something of a problem for the UK.

The real issue would be if the luftwaffe were spent sparingly and in major raid on naval units and fleets in combination with Subs. This would effectivly take the UK navy out of the picture and strangle the UK to a point that it has to drop out of the war.

Once UK is out of the war, lets assume Germany gives most of France back to Vichy and keeps only the alsac etc areas. Then Germany executes Barbarossa, goes well but settles for a Brest-Livotsk type 2 when it becomes obvious that they will not win this conflict.

So, instead of BoB, you would have a SoB. Mostly with a additional year and at least a few hundred more subs, potentially considerably more.

The entire european continent - swiss/sweden would be totalitarian or leaning strongly in that direction with an UK that is out of the fight. Fairly common Tl methinks.
 
Prevent the Second World War...

Hitler is assassinated on Armistice Day 1938, and the military takes over. Within a few years, France falls to a fascist-like movement prior to/following a series of minor wars all over Eastern Europe. France, Portugal, and Italy spend the next 20 years trying to put down colonial uprisings, while China is dismembered by the USSR, Japan, or both.

Britain remains an issue here, but I suspect it can be overcome under the right set of circumstances. That said, Getting France, Italy, and Germany on the same pace seems all but impossible.
 
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