Topics you think deserve more love in Alternate History
- Thread starter Mort the Reaper
- Start date
If Del Castillo survived probably. He by 1896 knew war was inevitable and there were rumors in 1897 that one of the reason why he was assassinated was that the anarchists were being funded by his opposition. Before his assassination, he had been pushing for reconcillation with the filipino rebels and sending the modern task force fleet to the pacific whilst also replacing the garrison duty troops in cuba with the morocco veterans. If the Spanish win on land in Cuba and win on sea in the Pacific, both of which were possible (winning on sea in cuba and winning on land in the philippines don't really do much favors for Spain), then there is a good chance that Spain can 'win' (read: status quo ante bellum) the war.
Otto Kretschmer
Banned
I just had this idea
The Khoisan people may build a civilization if they are exposed to one early
The Khoisan people may build a civilization if they are exposed to one early
country-wanks devoid, however, of idealism both utopian and dystopian
To be fair though, not everybody can comprehensively answer the question of "chinks" in the topics that they are discussing. They can't do it in chat, what more when they do it in fiction? The work I could think of that came closest to that ideal is Thande's Look to the West. The timeline may have been constructed and contrived, yes, but the countries there sure have so much detail on their situation and atrocities to make objective sense of Timeline L.
Here's mine though: a comprehensive take on an alternate development of the Left and the idea of class struggle; onto that extreme, what if Marx proposed (or elaborated the utopian) mechanisms for class collaboration as a remedy to his naturalistic proposal of class struggle?
To be fair though, not everybody can comprehensively answer the question of "chinks" in the topics that they are discussing. They can't do it in chat, what more when they do it in fiction? The work I could think of that came closest to that ideal is Thande's Look to the West. The timeline may have been constructed and contrived, yes, but the countries there sure have so much detail on their situation and atrocities to make objective sense of Timeline L.
Here's mine though: a comprehensive take on an alternate development of the Left and the idea of class struggle; onto that extreme, what if Marx proposed (or elaborated the utopian) mechanisms for class collaboration as a remedy to his naturalistic proposal of class struggle?
1. Swahili City States unify as a East African trading empire before the Portuguese show up, get guns and cannons from the Ottomans, and successfully keep Europeans out of the Indian Ocean trade network for at least until the 1600s. They then colonize coastal Madagascar, Comoros, Mauritius, the Seychelles, and other islands in the Western Indian Ocean, as well as settling slightly further into the African mainland.
2. Mongol Empire decides to mass produce opium, marijuana, and use their control of the Silk Road to sell these addictive drugs as medicine to Europe's nobility during the Black Plague, thus getting Europe's most educated people into becoming drug addicts which slowly then descends into the European merchant class as well, leading to the Mongols becoming the world's largest drug cartel and preventing Europe from rising to prominence due to being stoned out of its mind.
3. Romans did send expeditions into Sub Saharan Africa. Perhaps after invading the Garamantes in the 1st century AD, a glory seeking Roman general sends his legion to Lake Chad and conquers the area. Then due to political intrigue, the legion becomes labeled as traitors, another Roman legions destroys the wells in the Garamantes cities (which required heavy maintenance to maintain), and the Roman legion in Africa becomes forever cut off from Rome, forced to build its own blended Roman-African civilization.
4. Vikings sailing down the coast of west Africa and turning the Canaries and Cape Verde islands into Viking Kingdoms. These then start off raiding as slavers but eventually develop plantation economies that trade with Europe but also begin adventuring further down the coast of Africa.
5. Surviving , yet highly autonomous Viceroyalty of Peru (which almost happened) which becomes of the most powerful and wealth South American country (although its more of a vassal). It then becomes the first power to colonize much of Polynesia as well and reconquers Chile.
2. Mongol Empire decides to mass produce opium, marijuana, and use their control of the Silk Road to sell these addictive drugs as medicine to Europe's nobility during the Black Plague, thus getting Europe's most educated people into becoming drug addicts which slowly then descends into the European merchant class as well, leading to the Mongols becoming the world's largest drug cartel and preventing Europe from rising to prominence due to being stoned out of its mind.
3. Romans did send expeditions into Sub Saharan Africa. Perhaps after invading the Garamantes in the 1st century AD, a glory seeking Roman general sends his legion to Lake Chad and conquers the area. Then due to political intrigue, the legion becomes labeled as traitors, another Roman legions destroys the wells in the Garamantes cities (which required heavy maintenance to maintain), and the Roman legion in Africa becomes forever cut off from Rome, forced to build its own blended Roman-African civilization.
4. Vikings sailing down the coast of west Africa and turning the Canaries and Cape Verde islands into Viking Kingdoms. These then start off raiding as slavers but eventually develop plantation economies that trade with Europe but also begin adventuring further down the coast of Africa.
5. Surviving , yet highly autonomous Viceroyalty of Peru (which almost happened) which becomes of the most powerful and wealth South American country (although its more of a vassal). It then becomes the first power to colonize much of Polynesia as well and reconquers Chile.
Philippine Civil war Between Aguinaldo and Bonifacio where Bonifacio becomes king and Aguinaldo Becomes PM I've been reading stuff that there was a debate on whether PI should be a Kingdom or a republic.
United Fruit company, Cuyamel, Standard fruit uniting into one company and forcing central america to unite. and becomes a literal banana republic plus points if it renaimed to the name Banana republic
United Fruit company, Cuyamel, Standard fruit uniting into one company and forcing central america to unite. and becomes a literal banana republic plus points if it renaimed to the name Banana republic
- OTL southern Chinese provinces/regions retaining their pre-Sinitic identity, particularly their languages, although they would still received constant northeast Asian migration (with some geological ASB on the side). particularly a mountain chain in the northern border of the Huai river basin).
- Further development/continuation of much of Gaul, specifically within the Seine and Loire, remaining linguistically Gaulish (although Romanized a bit); actually, furtherly developing the ideas made by @LSCatilina a decade ago.
- Mostly Dravidian-speaking Indian subcontinent (a continuation of @Ganesha 's scenario, with some modifications).
- Wanking the Chukotko-Kamchatkans, Nivkhs and Yeniseians.
- The long-term implications of post-Roman Late Basquisation being restricted to present-day Navarra and Gúipuzcoa.
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If the Spanish could hold out a month or two longer in Cuba in 1898 many U.S troops would be struck down by Yellow Fever, which was a serious threat to the V Corps irl, more men died to illness on the campaign then enemy fire. The U.S Army had drawn up plans to replace them with southern recruited troops who might fair better in the climate.
Spain’s Navy was in major need to refit, to the point that Admiral Cevera, who command the fleet that sailed to Cuba, outright told his leaders victory was unlikely with the sorry state of some ships in dire need of refits. If the Spanish Navy had undergone reforms that lead to better readiness, they might have not been so quickly defeated by the well seemed but just as undertrained American Navy.
if this generates interest, I did intend at one point last year to write this T.L as its own post, “The Dreadful Little War” but I had difficulty finding proper research material in Spain at the time.
I know this site is very Anglo-centric but it's where I'm from so here's my tuppence:
A United Kingdom that coalesced out of more discrete units rather than a giant England and a smaller Celtic fringe. So perhaps an England where the heptarchy endured or where the 'fringe' was more populous. Would the 'UK' by less appallingly London centric today? Would there be a federation of kingdoms? Would the British archipelago be seen as an equivalent of Scandinavia - if that makes sense? What effects might that have on imperialism (if any)?
A Brythonic kingdom/empire consisting of a surviving (larger) Wales, Strathclyde, Dumnonia and Brittany. Eventually to be swallowed up (probably) by an ATL UK.
An independent and loosely federated India (combining OTL India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, maybe more...?) where the princely states act rather like the hereditary rules of the OTL Malaysian states, electing a Bahadur amongst them for a five year term.
A United Kingdom that coalesced out of more discrete units rather than a giant England and a smaller Celtic fringe. So perhaps an England where the heptarchy endured or where the 'fringe' was more populous. Would the 'UK' by less appallingly London centric today? Would there be a federation of kingdoms? Would the British archipelago be seen as an equivalent of Scandinavia - if that makes sense? What effects might that have on imperialism (if any)?
A Brythonic kingdom/empire consisting of a surviving (larger) Wales, Strathclyde, Dumnonia and Brittany. Eventually to be swallowed up (probably) by an ATL UK.
An independent and loosely federated India (combining OTL India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, maybe more...?) where the princely states act rather like the hereditary rules of the OTL Malaysian states, electing a Bahadur amongst them for a five year term.
Rather than Escandinavia, why not Japan?
I was just reading the thread about Asia and Europe swapping roles
To have a "shogunate" of sorts all you'd need is these fringe states to continuously fight each other while the ruling dinasty lost all it's power but still remain de jure in charge for religious reasons(divine right maybe?) kinda like with the commonwealth today
Then have this Britain remain isolationist for a while after consolidating itself as a federative kingdom just like you said before going full industrialist(like OTL but in a shorter period of time) with the monarch recovering some of their power(think the Queen Victoria from Albion TL) to say it "pulled a Meiji"
British anime anyone?
Speaking of anglocentrism, I would like a subversion of it
Like there's a lot of TLs where the British Empire survives and usually follows the Imperial Federation model(which I love) with the criticism of the idea usually being that if such a thing was made it would be controlled by the former colonies(India, Canada, America if it never goes independent, Australia if they join the emus...) which Britain would never allow, so I would really really like a TL where this is exactly what happens - a British Federation centered around India & North America
"Did the Empire survive?"
"Yes"
"What did it cost?"
"Everything"
Like there's a lot of TLs where the British Empire survives and usually follows the Imperial Federation model(which I love) with the criticism of the idea usually being that if such a thing was made it would be controlled by the former colonies(India, Canada, America if it never goes independent, Australia if they join the emus...) which Britain would never allow, so I would really really like a TL where this is exactly what happens - a British Federation centered around India & North America
"Did the Empire survive?"
"Yes"
"What did it cost?"
"Everything"
Seconded and thirded - if anyone’s willing to do the writing, I’ll do the subscribing👍
Something I think is neglected in history in general is the 30 Years War. From pop culture depictions to good historical study of it, it just gets neglected. The biggest alt history thing about it of course would be making it rather brief, with no follow on wars, or no defenestration to begin with. The war itself was less a single war than multiple phases of a war, much like the Hundred Years War, but I'd imagine if you avoid the Danish intervention, it pretty much dies down and the Cold War of sorts between Vienna and the Protestant Princes keeps going.
Beyond the politics of it, however, think of the implications economically and militarily for the next century if Germany is not a depopulated wasteland. I'd imagine the rise of the Western European powers might be less differentially significant. Then, there is the post-Westphalian principle of the primacy of the nation state, something that was by no means guaranteed, or at least not at that point in history. Perhaps if you forestall that, Europe looks much differently heading into the Enlightenment.
Beyond the politics of it, however, think of the implications economically and militarily for the next century if Germany is not a depopulated wasteland. I'd imagine the rise of the Western European powers might be less differentially significant. Then, there is the post-Westphalian principle of the primacy of the nation state, something that was by no means guaranteed, or at least not at that point in history. Perhaps if you forestall that, Europe looks much differently heading into the Enlightenment.
What about butterflying the famines that the colonials benefited in the old world, in that case, Ireland would be speaking Irish, Spanish won't hold the Northern Half of Luzon, different demographics of Burma/Myanmar and Belgium fails to colonize Congo.
Good Pan-Arab wank TLs. Pan-Arabism is such an overlooked alternate history concept. Imagine how good a Pan-Arab wank TL can be if done right.
Also France getting the Burgundian inheritance from Charles the Bold somehow. A much bigger France will be something.
Also France getting the Burgundian inheritance from Charles the Bold somehow. A much bigger France will be something.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by Pan-Arabism
The original Caliphate, had you proposed it as an alt history, would be laughed at as ASB. The idea of an empire spanning from Aquitaine to Pakistan under the control of a single ruler, having deatroyed the Sassanids and crippled Byzantium, all in the span of a century, just not feasible, but it did happen. To stretch that further, you'd probably need for more internal Muslim unity, something that was very difficult to begin with.
If you are talking about the 20th century movement, I think it would've been more feasible had the colonial administration been by a single power, along with it coming to power in the Gulf and therefore having major oil wealth at its disposal. Outside of that, it's not clear that it would have been able to overcome the problem of the bureaucratic bourgeoisie, a concept that killed African Nationalism in its cradle.
1. Flann Sinna becomes actual High King of Ireland. He got close to doing it irl and lets say if his son Donnchad stayed loyal to his father Flann stood a good chance
2. Edward the Exile doesn't die immediately after returning to England. You have a native English candidate for the throne that has proper royal blood, hard to challenge like Harold Godwinson was irl and also opens the door for an Anglo-Saxon England.
3. Really anything with Ethiopia. Very understated and underloved, has a billion PoDs that can have it trolling Africa or the Middle East.
4. Polynesian Kingdoms that tried to form in the 19th century succeed so the Pacific is a patchwork of native monarchies like Hawaii or Aotearoa being under their own rule.
5. Tongzhi Restoration succeeds and China is able to put itself on stable footing.
2. Edward the Exile doesn't die immediately after returning to England. You have a native English candidate for the throne that has proper royal blood, hard to challenge like Harold Godwinson was irl and also opens the door for an Anglo-Saxon England.
3. Really anything with Ethiopia. Very understated and underloved, has a billion PoDs that can have it trolling Africa or the Middle East.
4. Polynesian Kingdoms that tried to form in the 19th century succeed so the Pacific is a patchwork of native monarchies like Hawaii or Aotearoa being under their own rule.
5. Tongzhi Restoration succeeds and China is able to put itself on stable footing.