No problem with me.
Thanks.
Be prepared for more of my locomotive ideas in the coming days...
Top Locomotives Never Built
- Thread starter Duke Andrew of Dank
- Start date
Thanks.
Be prepared for more of my locomotive ideas in the coming days...
One other loco that the Great North Central built, though it was not a success. The Great North Central thought that electric traction might have some application for high speed traffic. A few miles of overhead line was installed, and the 2-C+C-2 express engine made its first runs. Elegantly streamlined, and with a great suspension that tracked well on the two foot gauge track, the locomotive was seen to have potential.
Even the good folks of Maine can underestimate the winters up there. Overhead lines take more maintenance than track, and are vulnerable to trees and icing. The need to add many substations for long distance running eventually doomed the project, as the infrastructure would, in the end, be far too expensive.
Its futuristic look, elegant lines, and wonderful acceleration became the stuff of legend along the line; to this day, people claim to hear the ghost of #302 racing along the line, its promise forever unfilled.
Ten years later, the Norterhn Electric lived again, inspiring the greatest electric locomotive ever, the GG-1 of the Pennsylvania Railroad and Boston and Maine Railroad.
The locomotive's tale should have ended there, but it didn't. Many decades later, #302 was found where it had been parked, supposedly for the last time. Once again, the legendary #302's air horn is heard along the line.
Even the good folks of Maine can underestimate the winters up there. Overhead lines take more maintenance than track, and are vulnerable to trees and icing. The need to add many substations for long distance running eventually doomed the project, as the infrastructure would, in the end, be far too expensive.
Its futuristic look, elegant lines, and wonderful acceleration became the stuff of legend along the line; to this day, people claim to hear the ghost of #302 racing along the line, its promise forever unfilled.
Ten years later, the Norterhn Electric lived again, inspiring the greatest electric locomotive ever, the GG-1 of the Pennsylvania Railroad and Boston and Maine Railroad.
The locomotive's tale should have ended there, but it didn't. Many decades later, #302 was found where it had been parked, supposedly for the last time. Once again, the legendary #302's air horn is heard along the line.
The L&YR had 22.5 route miles of 3rd rail radiating from Liverpool Exchange Station at the end of 1905, which was increased to 28.5 at the end of 1906 and was gradually increased to 37 route miles between then and 1913.
In your TL it would make sense for the 3rd rail that existed in 1906 to be converted to 1,500v overhead and the 14.5 route miles the Y&LR electrified on 3rd rail between 1906 and 1913 IOTL to be electrified on 1,500v overhead in your TL.
It would also be logical for the Manchester Victoria-Bury-Holcombe Brooke electrification to use 1,500v DC in your TL if it still happens.
There's probably enough passenger traffic on the Liverpool-Bury line for it to survive as an electrified route after 1931 in spite of the catastrophic reduction in the amount of coal carried.
Furthermore the National Grid had been under construction (IIRC) since 1926 and would be completed in 1933. That would probably enable the LMS to close its existing power stations and dismantle the cabling (if that's the right expression) from them to the sub-stations and instead "plug-in" to the National Grid at convenient points along the route.
Finally the ex-Midland men might have been less adverse to electrification that you think. In 1914 a bill was passing through Parliament for the electrification of the line from St Pancras to St Albans, the Tottenham Branch and all of the recently acquired London, Tilbury and Southend Railway. The Tyne & Wear Archives have a copy of the feasibility study that Merz and McLelland made for them. The LMS conducted another feasibility study into electrifying the LTS in the 1920s.
Algeria had some Garrett Express passenger locos which were known for being very speedy and steady. There's no reason why a Garrett couldn't equal the speed of a Mallet type.
Garrett’s had one big issue with them. One of the driver sets was typically located under the tender (partially anyway) and as the coal and water was used the weight decreased and this caused an imbalance in between the drivers that caused the one set to tend to slip. This is why a more typical design was to put the drivers under the boiler as it did not change the weight on the drivers.
AFAIK most Garrets were designed with a water tank at the fore end bogie and a fuel bunker on the cab end bogie. The boiler being slung evenly between the two. That lessens the difference in adhesion weight between the two bogies.
The London, Midland, and Scottish Superpower Clan
During the 1930's, Sir William Stanier was commissioned with a project to try and create larger and more powerful steam engines to operate LMS trains from London all the way to Glasgow in Scotland. The idea was that these engines could make the trip from London to Glasglow with few to no fuel stops along the way.
Ultimately, Stanier chose to create the Black Five 4-6-0, Princess Coronation 4-6-2, and 8F 2-8-0 for shorter distance services. But then some, he also created many more steam engines for similar purposes. To design the bigger engines, he got the help of his apprentice George Ivatt.
9F 2-8-2
Whilst this was not a superpower steamer like the other engines, it was still built to serve the railroad on freight trains alongside the smaller 8F 2-8-0s. These engines proved themselves superb at the job. Often being able to operate goods trains at higher speeds than the 8F was strong enough to handle. After nationalization, Robert Riddles considered building the Standard 9F to a similar design, but opted for a 2-10-0 wheel arrangement in the end. Today one engine, 6400, is at the Blueball Railway, with two more preserved in Glasgow and in Edinburgh.
9P 4-6-4 "Admiral"
The first of these engines, 6260 Horatio Nelson, came out in 1938 after the last Pacifics were built. It was numbered such because there were still two Pacifics intended to be built after the war. These engines initially operated as streamlined engines, but their shroud made them less efficient, and were scrapped early in the Second World War. These engines also differed from the Pacifics in that they used 8 wheeled tenders instead of the six wheel tenders of the Pacifics. The engines continued to serve the nationalized railway system until their displacement by both more efficient Standards and Diesels, and several are preserved today. Among them being 6706 Robert Blake, which has run numerous mainline tours over the former LMS and other parts of British Rail.
9MT 2-8-4 "Scotsmen"
The freight equivalent to the Admirals was this class of 2-8-4 engines. As the name "Berkshire" didn't make sense due to being and American name, LMS crews named them "Sctosmen." These engines were just as good, if not better, than the 9Fs. But they also proved themselves to be versatile on anything they were given. Hence the fact they were given the chance to occasionally back up passenger trains or mail trains. One engine, numbered 6450, is preserved at the Bresignham Steam Museum. Two more, 6455 and 6462, run on the mainline or heritage railways.
10P 4-8-4 "Empire"
The ultimate LMS steamer was made with the goal of being the ultimate British steam engine. The engines were called "Empires" because they were named after the UK's numerous territories. These engines were ultimately placed mainly on passenger services like the London- Glasglow Coronation Scot. That said, they did a superb job on this and many more passenger/mail trains. For this reason and sheer size, they became the most famous LMS Steamers ever. Today, five are preserved, the most famous two are 6302 India in the National Collection, and 6310 Canada at the Texas Rail Institute in Temple, whereas 6323 Conqueror mainly operates on main line on rail tours.
10F 2-10-4
The last major LMS Steamer was built as a freight counterpart to the Empire 4-8-4s. But these were never quite the level of the Empire's magnificence. That, and whatever they could indeed do was usually already handled by the smaller and more able 8-coupled engines. However, the comparatively few built did soldier on into the 60s. With many seeing service on long distance freight trains where they could travel from one end of the Midland Region to the other without stops. Engine 6510 is now preserved in Glasgow, with some talk of restoring it. Whereas another, 6504, is on display in the National Collection at York.
OOC: These were inspired by some content on rmweb.co.uk. The picture is also from there.
During the 1930's, Sir William Stanier was commissioned with a project to try and create larger and more powerful steam engines to operate LMS trains from London all the way to Glasgow in Scotland. The idea was that these engines could make the trip from London to Glasglow with few to no fuel stops along the way.
Ultimately, Stanier chose to create the Black Five 4-6-0, Princess Coronation 4-6-2, and 8F 2-8-0 for shorter distance services. But then some, he also created many more steam engines for similar purposes. To design the bigger engines, he got the help of his apprentice George Ivatt.
9F 2-8-2
Whilst this was not a superpower steamer like the other engines, it was still built to serve the railroad on freight trains alongside the smaller 8F 2-8-0s. These engines proved themselves superb at the job. Often being able to operate goods trains at higher speeds than the 8F was strong enough to handle. After nationalization, Robert Riddles considered building the Standard 9F to a similar design, but opted for a 2-10-0 wheel arrangement in the end. Today one engine, 6400, is at the Blueball Railway, with two more preserved in Glasgow and in Edinburgh.
9P 4-6-4 "Admiral"
The first of these engines, 6260 Horatio Nelson, came out in 1938 after the last Pacifics were built. It was numbered such because there were still two Pacifics intended to be built after the war. These engines initially operated as streamlined engines, but their shroud made them less efficient, and were scrapped early in the Second World War. These engines also differed from the Pacifics in that they used 8 wheeled tenders instead of the six wheel tenders of the Pacifics. The engines continued to serve the nationalized railway system until their displacement by both more efficient Standards and Diesels, and several are preserved today. Among them being 6706 Robert Blake, which has run numerous mainline tours over the former LMS and other parts of British Rail.
9MT 2-8-4 "Scotsmen"
The freight equivalent to the Admirals was this class of 2-8-4 engines. As the name "Berkshire" didn't make sense due to being and American name, LMS crews named them "Sctosmen." These engines were just as good, if not better, than the 9Fs. But they also proved themselves to be versatile on anything they were given. Hence the fact they were given the chance to occasionally back up passenger trains or mail trains. One engine, numbered 6450, is preserved at the Bresignham Steam Museum. Two more, 6455 and 6462, run on the mainline or heritage railways.
10P 4-8-4 "Empire"
The ultimate LMS steamer was made with the goal of being the ultimate British steam engine. The engines were called "Empires" because they were named after the UK's numerous territories. These engines were ultimately placed mainly on passenger services like the London- Glasglow Coronation Scot. That said, they did a superb job on this and many more passenger/mail trains. For this reason and sheer size, they became the most famous LMS Steamers ever. Today, five are preserved, the most famous two are 6302 India in the National Collection, and 6310 Canada at the Texas Rail Institute in Temple, whereas 6323 Conqueror mainly operates on main line on rail tours.
10F 2-10-4
The last major LMS Steamer was built as a freight counterpart to the Empire 4-8-4s. But these were never quite the level of the Empire's magnificence. That, and whatever they could indeed do was usually already handled by the smaller and more able 8-coupled engines. However, the comparatively few built did soldier on into the 60s. With many seeing service on long distance freight trains where they could travel from one end of the Midland Region to the other without stops. Engine 6510 is now preserved in Glasgow, with some talk of restoring it. Whereas another, 6504, is on display in the National Collection at York.
OOC: These were inspired by some content on rmweb.co.uk. The picture is also from there.
Attachments
Last edited:
The majority of the weight on a Garrett is the frame and boiler transmitted to the drivers through the bogie pivots. The water and coal are a small percentage.
My personal favorite steam locomotive is the Pennsylvania RR T-1. This 4-4-4-4 duplex has been mentioned as the fastest steamer ever (I've tried to reference posts in previous threads which mentioned timed speeds between 144 and 156 MPH, ((the latter which even I don't credit)) I believe they appeared within the past two years).
While the T-1 was comparatively complex and expensive, and experienced wheelspin between the forward and aft driver sets if not throttled carefully, the major problem was inability to be operated over the entire PRR system. (Yes, I know about the electrified corridor) The T-1s' problem was the long wheelbase of the two sets of drivers separated by the mid engines, which limited use on tight radius curves.
I believe the wheelbase could have been reduced to more usual dimensions by relocating the mid engine set to behind the trailing drivers and moving the drivers closer together. This would not require a substantial change in kinematics, beyond relocating thrust rod journal above the wheel center. Electromechanical technology at the time of design (1938-39) was adequate to measure driver RPM and control steam servo modulation to eliminate wheelspin.
Altogether a beautiful engine!
Dynasoar
While the T-1 was comparatively complex and expensive, and experienced wheelspin between the forward and aft driver sets if not throttled carefully, the major problem was inability to be operated over the entire PRR system. (Yes, I know about the electrified corridor) The T-1s' problem was the long wheelbase of the two sets of drivers separated by the mid engines, which limited use on tight radius curves.
I believe the wheelbase could have been reduced to more usual dimensions by relocating the mid engine set to behind the trailing drivers and moving the drivers closer together. This would not require a substantial change in kinematics, beyond relocating thrust rod journal above the wheel center. Electromechanical technology at the time of design (1938-39) was adequate to measure driver RPM and control steam servo modulation to eliminate wheelspin.
Altogether a beautiful engine!
Dynasoar
@Andrew Boyd if I may draw your attention to post #2547 of this thread.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14790-imaginary-locomotives/page-102#entry3013121
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14790-imaginary-locomotives/page-102#entry3013121
That's where the idea came from. I just changed the numbers and added preserved examples.
But in this particular case the CN V-1 was meant as a heavy freight engine, whereas the CP Challenger was a true dual-purpose locomotive.
Yes a typical Garret engine has the water on one end and fuel on the other. And as such has issues with variable weight on drivers. Much the same way that the Large Eire triplexes had problems.
As for the PRR T-1 4-4-4-4 was basically an attempt to make a higher speed 4-8-4. By using 2 sets of cylinders you get lighter weight side rides and cylinders and such so that it could move faster. The problem is the two sets of cylinders is not as efficient as one set. Add in that if one driver loses traction it only has one other driver set to absorb the power from the cylinders and this is part of why a 4-4 is more slippery then an 8 coupled. The C&O ran a borrowed PRR T-1 on tests runs some of which where in the New River Gorge in WV and had reports of noticeably more slipping then it had on its 4-6-4 and 4-8-4 engines. Which is disappointing as the PRR was a good looking engine. If I ever get my layout farther along I want to borrow a friends model of the PRR T-1 and run it on my layout to recreate this.
As for the PRR T-1 4-4-4-4 was basically an attempt to make a higher speed 4-8-4. By using 2 sets of cylinders you get lighter weight side rides and cylinders and such so that it could move faster. The problem is the two sets of cylinders is not as efficient as one set. Add in that if one driver loses traction it only has one other driver set to absorb the power from the cylinders and this is part of why a 4-4 is more slippery then an 8 coupled. The C&O ran a borrowed PRR T-1 on tests runs some of which where in the New River Gorge in WV and had reports of noticeably more slipping then it had on its 4-6-4 and 4-8-4 engines. Which is disappointing as the PRR was a good looking engine. If I ever get my layout farther along I want to borrow a friends model of the PRR T-1 and run it on my layout to recreate this.
The line from Liverpool Exchange passenger station to Bury via Rainford, Wigan Walgate and Bolton is about 34.25 route miles long.
It's also about 37 route miles from Liverpool Exchange to Manchester Victoria via Rainford and Wigan Walgate. As about 22.25 route miles of this overlaps with the Liverpool to Bury electrification it would make sense to electrify the remaining 14.75 route miles from Crow Nest Junction to Manchester Victoria to allow all-electric working from Liverpool to Manchester.
The next logical step after that would be Wigan to Southport to allow all-electric working from Manchester to Southport. This would also make the proposed extension from Ormskirk to Southport more feasible financially as the Burscough to Southport sections would overlap.
I finally decided to throw my ideas into the ring
-
Locomotive: GS-5
Configuration: 4-8-4 3-Cylinder Compound
Company: Southern Pacific
Years of production: 1939-1943
The 1938 publishing and translation of Chapelon's "La Locomotive a Vapeur" caused surprise in the various motive power and rolling stock departments across the country. Chapelon himself toured the various roads and builders giving talks through a translator, highlighting that bigger isn't always better and the benefits of using science to create a more efficient steam engine; his very last stop before returning to France was the Southern Pacific's expansive Sacramento Shops in Sacramento California. The Superintendent gave a personal tour of a variety of locomotives including homebuilt MT 4-8-2s, Lima streamlined 4-8-4s and massive cab forward Baldwin 4-8-8-2s; Chapelon was no stranger to modernization and offered rebuild advice that could be done in home shops. Impressed with the numbers being shown and the science backing it, the Motive Power department was convinced that they could massively improve their existing fleet with far fewer new locomotives. Two locomotives were chosen, both 4-8-2s, one would feature Chapelon's 3 cylinder compound and the other retaining simple expansion; both engines featured Kylchap exhausts, roller bearings, streamlined internals, skyline casings, belpaire firebox, and mechanical forced lubrication. Both locomotives improved dramatically with thermal efficiency pushing 10%, dramatic sustained horsepower increases and large decreases in fuel and water consumption; the compounding locomotive in many cases outperformed the existing 4-8-4s. However, the compounding cylinders were ruled out for rebuilds; judged to be too costly for existing locomotives, the simple cylinder rebuild was authorized for any locomotive undergoing major service. While the compounding cylinders were cut out from rebuilds that didn't exclude them from new locomotives on Lima's horizon.
With rumors coming from Alco pushing for a new class of 4-8-4s for the UP and NYC, Lima and the SP wasted no time in developing new power using Chapelon methods. The previous simple expansion GS classes were rebuilt at Sacramento to a common standard and classified as GS-4. The new 4-8-4, classified as GS-5, would be able to pull the various passenger trains unassisted to Los Angles without fuel or water stops. The best technology would be utilized, featuring full roller bearings, single cast frame, Double Kylchap exhaust, Belpaire firebox, complete aluminum streamline shell, 3 cylinder compound design, double axle 35mph booster, and an experimental welded boiler at 300 psi. Three prototypes would be built at the Sacramento Shops and then the production models would be built by Lima; SP 4430 would be the most conventional with a rear enclosed cab and 80-inch drivers, SP 4431 would be a cab forward design with 80-inch drivers and SP 4432 would have a rear cab and 84-inch drivers. The full streamline casing was very striking, painted in the bright Daylight color scheme in a similar fashion to the ATSF Blue Goose, UP 49er and German Class 05; the numbers were equally striking, with 6,000 HP and 74,000 pounds TE with an additional 20,000 pounds from the booster up to 35 mph. The fully enclosed cab was well liked by the crews and recommended for the rebuilding programs, the cab forward had excellent vision by design and SP 4431 was confirmed to be the future production model. SP 4432 with its larger drivers was performing high-speed testing for both locomotives and rolling stock designs, routinely crossing 100, 110 and 120 mph on the triple track grade separated Penisula main. But Lima and the SP wanted to go faster; so the SP gathered their best crewed, called the media and gave the 4432 a good once over; they left SF Union Station on March 1939 at 8:45 AM to break the world speed record. By the time they passed Sunnyvale, 4432 was holding a steady 128 mph with a consist of the Dynamometer car, three articulated coaches and a Daylight Parlor-Observation car. Crowds rejoiced, global headlines were printed, foreign gentleman grumbled and a presidential phone call to top it all off; the SP remained the King of Western railroading, after battling competition from three roads on its home turf. The SP would hold the record for six years until it was beaten by the PRRs T1 Class which passed 129 mph during testing in 1945 and then broke the world record again in 1947 after passing 138 mph.
Between 1939 and 1943, 50 units were built by Lima until tighter war restrictions forbade any new express locomotives; with the acquisition of the Rock Island, the SP was able to pull their own California Chicago trains and the GS-5 did just that. Taking over all named passenger trains, both coach and sleeper, the newer power allowed for the 39 hour Golden Rocket to directly compete with the ATSFs Super Chief. The San Joaquin Daylight became a speed demon shaving off two hours to a sub 8-hour trip, though Tehachapi Loop was still a bottleneck. The high reliability and speed allowed intra-California trains to be turned around with minimal maintenance and run multiple trains per day. Troop and hospital trains were also a common haul, with young soldiers getting a kick out of the foreign looking cab forward streamliner. After the war, all of the roads and builders were invited to Fort Eustis Virginia to inspect captured Axis Locomotives; of note, the condensing class 52 seemed to solve many issues facing steam locomotives, the condensing tender was claiming 90% water savings and 10% fuel reductions. Lima and Alco were quick to dissect the tenders and began adapting them to American standards, condensing tenders would be adopted en masse for the roads wishing to cheaply upgrade there existing steam fleets. The SP ordered a repeat of the GS-5 with a condenser aptly named GS-5C, the new tender was near universal and was adopted for most locomotives coming through the Sacramento Shops. When coupled with new T.I.A. feedwater treatment formulas, the post war economics of steam engines became uncomfortably close to diesel which all of the steam builders capitalized on.
By the late 60's the majority of the Oil burning divisions have mostly converted to either Diesel or Electric, with the new abundance of nuclear energy the SP had electrified the majority of the California traffic sans Coast Route, the UP had also jointly electrified the CP route from SF to Reno. While second-generation coal burners still worked daily, oil burners like the GS-5 class were retired, SP 4431 and 4432 were donated to the Golden Gate Rail Museum and can be found running excursions around the Bay Area, annual Coast Daylight reenactments to LA and to various Railfairs around the nation. SP 4449 was kept on the roster of the SP and acts as a goodwill ambassador around their system and still competes with UP 884 70 years later, for which engine can draw a bigger crowd.
-
Locomotive: GS-5
Configuration: 4-8-4 3-Cylinder Compound
Company: Southern Pacific
Years of production: 1939-1943
The 1938 publishing and translation of Chapelon's "La Locomotive a Vapeur" caused surprise in the various motive power and rolling stock departments across the country. Chapelon himself toured the various roads and builders giving talks through a translator, highlighting that bigger isn't always better and the benefits of using science to create a more efficient steam engine; his very last stop before returning to France was the Southern Pacific's expansive Sacramento Shops in Sacramento California. The Superintendent gave a personal tour of a variety of locomotives including homebuilt MT 4-8-2s, Lima streamlined 4-8-4s and massive cab forward Baldwin 4-8-8-2s; Chapelon was no stranger to modernization and offered rebuild advice that could be done in home shops. Impressed with the numbers being shown and the science backing it, the Motive Power department was convinced that they could massively improve their existing fleet with far fewer new locomotives. Two locomotives were chosen, both 4-8-2s, one would feature Chapelon's 3 cylinder compound and the other retaining simple expansion; both engines featured Kylchap exhausts, roller bearings, streamlined internals, skyline casings, belpaire firebox, and mechanical forced lubrication. Both locomotives improved dramatically with thermal efficiency pushing 10%, dramatic sustained horsepower increases and large decreases in fuel and water consumption; the compounding locomotive in many cases outperformed the existing 4-8-4s. However, the compounding cylinders were ruled out for rebuilds; judged to be too costly for existing locomotives, the simple cylinder rebuild was authorized for any locomotive undergoing major service. While the compounding cylinders were cut out from rebuilds that didn't exclude them from new locomotives on Lima's horizon.
With rumors coming from Alco pushing for a new class of 4-8-4s for the UP and NYC, Lima and the SP wasted no time in developing new power using Chapelon methods. The previous simple expansion GS classes were rebuilt at Sacramento to a common standard and classified as GS-4. The new 4-8-4, classified as GS-5, would be able to pull the various passenger trains unassisted to Los Angles without fuel or water stops. The best technology would be utilized, featuring full roller bearings, single cast frame, Double Kylchap exhaust, Belpaire firebox, complete aluminum streamline shell, 3 cylinder compound design, double axle 35mph booster, and an experimental welded boiler at 300 psi. Three prototypes would be built at the Sacramento Shops and then the production models would be built by Lima; SP 4430 would be the most conventional with a rear enclosed cab and 80-inch drivers, SP 4431 would be a cab forward design with 80-inch drivers and SP 4432 would have a rear cab and 84-inch drivers. The full streamline casing was very striking, painted in the bright Daylight color scheme in a similar fashion to the ATSF Blue Goose, UP 49er and German Class 05; the numbers were equally striking, with 6,000 HP and 74,000 pounds TE with an additional 20,000 pounds from the booster up to 35 mph. The fully enclosed cab was well liked by the crews and recommended for the rebuilding programs, the cab forward had excellent vision by design and SP 4431 was confirmed to be the future production model. SP 4432 with its larger drivers was performing high-speed testing for both locomotives and rolling stock designs, routinely crossing 100, 110 and 120 mph on the triple track grade separated Penisula main. But Lima and the SP wanted to go faster; so the SP gathered their best crewed, called the media and gave the 4432 a good once over; they left SF Union Station on March 1939 at 8:45 AM to break the world speed record. By the time they passed Sunnyvale, 4432 was holding a steady 128 mph with a consist of the Dynamometer car, three articulated coaches and a Daylight Parlor-Observation car. Crowds rejoiced, global headlines were printed, foreign gentleman grumbled and a presidential phone call to top it all off; the SP remained the King of Western railroading, after battling competition from three roads on its home turf. The SP would hold the record for six years until it was beaten by the PRRs T1 Class which passed 129 mph during testing in 1945 and then broke the world record again in 1947 after passing 138 mph.
Between 1939 and 1943, 50 units were built by Lima until tighter war restrictions forbade any new express locomotives; with the acquisition of the Rock Island, the SP was able to pull their own California Chicago trains and the GS-5 did just that. Taking over all named passenger trains, both coach and sleeper, the newer power allowed for the 39 hour Golden Rocket to directly compete with the ATSFs Super Chief. The San Joaquin Daylight became a speed demon shaving off two hours to a sub 8-hour trip, though Tehachapi Loop was still a bottleneck. The high reliability and speed allowed intra-California trains to be turned around with minimal maintenance and run multiple trains per day. Troop and hospital trains were also a common haul, with young soldiers getting a kick out of the foreign looking cab forward streamliner. After the war, all of the roads and builders were invited to Fort Eustis Virginia to inspect captured Axis Locomotives; of note, the condensing class 52 seemed to solve many issues facing steam locomotives, the condensing tender was claiming 90% water savings and 10% fuel reductions. Lima and Alco were quick to dissect the tenders and began adapting them to American standards, condensing tenders would be adopted en masse for the roads wishing to cheaply upgrade there existing steam fleets. The SP ordered a repeat of the GS-5 with a condenser aptly named GS-5C, the new tender was near universal and was adopted for most locomotives coming through the Sacramento Shops. When coupled with new T.I.A. feedwater treatment formulas, the post war economics of steam engines became uncomfortably close to diesel which all of the steam builders capitalized on.
By the late 60's the majority of the Oil burning divisions have mostly converted to either Diesel or Electric, with the new abundance of nuclear energy the SP had electrified the majority of the California traffic sans Coast Route, the UP had also jointly electrified the CP route from SF to Reno. While second-generation coal burners still worked daily, oil burners like the GS-5 class were retired, SP 4431 and 4432 were donated to the Golden Gate Rail Museum and can be found running excursions around the Bay Area, annual Coast Daylight reenactments to LA and to various Railfairs around the nation. SP 4449 was kept on the roster of the SP and acts as a goodwill ambassador around their system and still competes with UP 884 70 years later, for which engine can draw a bigger crowd.
Last edited:
Locomotive: Class 93 (Intercity 250 trainset)
Configuration: 1+ class 93 power (Bo-Bo) car, 10+ British Rail Mk 5 carriages +1 Driving Van Trailer
Specifications:
25 kV AC Catenary
Current pickup(s) Pantograph (2 per power car)
Traction motors Asynchronous 3-Phase AC
Loco brake Disc, Tread & Rheostatic
Train brakes Disc
Company: British Rail/Intercity
Years of production: 1993-1996
In the late 1980s, it had become clear the West Coast Mainline, Britain’s premier mainline railway and Europe’s busiest mixed traffic freight railway was in dire need of upgrade, having last had one in the early 1960s. While a new high speed alignment was considered, it was decided the best solution was to upgrade the physical infrastructure and introduce a fleet of new high performance trains capable of 155 miles per hour. In our timeline, a number of factors caused the project to be cancelled, however in my timeline, the project goes forward.
Construction of the power cars began in 1993 in GEC-Alsthom’s Crewe works, while the traction equipment came from GEC traction’s various works in Trafford Park-Manchester and Preston in Lancashire. The traction equipment’s cooling fans, like that of the Eurostar trains, came from Northern Ireland-giving the locomotives the characteristic roaring sound that Eurostar and the earlier class 91 electric locomotives have.
Designed by design agency Seymour-Powell in Fulham, South West London, the class 93 locos were designed to capture the hearts of the public following the success of the earlier InterCity 125 class 43 diesels in the 1970s, and would also be Britain’s answer to the French “TGV”. The first sets entered service in 1995, and to corremerate the introduction of the locomotives, British Rail commissioned a series of iconic artworks to be produced that were hung in its offices and waiting rooms along the Wsy Coast Mainline and sold to the public-for a considerable price. The last locomotives rolled off the production line in 1997, but so successful we’re the trains, BR ordered a follow on order for 15 additional vehicles in 1997 for work on the West’s Coast and East Coast Mainlines.
The units spawned the design of the “90s classes” of electric locomotives that shortly became a staple to the British rail fleet:
Class 94- 140 mph capable electric locomotives used for passenger sets.
Class 95- heavy duty Co-Co freight locos designed for heavy coal or steelworks trains
Class 96- dual voltage 125 mph electric locos designed for cross country and container freight workings from Scotland and Northern England onto the former BR Southern Region (now Network South East).
The class 93’s were the final hurrrah for the British train build in industry before its eventual collapse, and the last hurrah for GEC-the British engineering giant before it was swallowed up by Alstom in 1998.
The below is the fleet list for the original 15 locomotives built.
Class 93 Fleet List- January 1998
Number and Name - Date Built - Depot Allocation
93 001- Stephenson - July 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 002- Duchess of Buccleuch - July 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 003- Wolf of Badenoch - August 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 004- City of London - August 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 005- Princess Anne - September 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 006- William Wallace - January 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 007- City of Manchester - January 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 008- Caledonian - March 1995 - Polmadie Traction Maintainance Depot
93 009- General Electric Company - May 1995 - Polmadie Traction Maintainance Depot
93 010- City of Preston - August 1995 - Polmadie Traction Maintainance Depot
93 011- Kingdom of Scotland - January 1996 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 012- Constantine - January 1996 -Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 013- Naomi Campbell - September 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 014- County of Cheshire - September 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 015- Kingdom of Mercia September 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot-
In my signature is the link to my timeline “Thatcher Survives-So Does British Rail” which explores this timeline in more detail.
Configuration: 1+ class 93 power (Bo-Bo) car, 10+ British Rail Mk 5 carriages +1 Driving Van Trailer
Specifications:
25 kV AC Catenary
Current pickup(s) Pantograph (2 per power car)
Traction motors Asynchronous 3-Phase AC
Loco brake Disc, Tread & Rheostatic
Train brakes Disc
Company: British Rail/Intercity
Years of production: 1993-1996
In the late 1980s, it had become clear the West Coast Mainline, Britain’s premier mainline railway and Europe’s busiest mixed traffic freight railway was in dire need of upgrade, having last had one in the early 1960s. While a new high speed alignment was considered, it was decided the best solution was to upgrade the physical infrastructure and introduce a fleet of new high performance trains capable of 155 miles per hour. In our timeline, a number of factors caused the project to be cancelled, however in my timeline, the project goes forward.
Construction of the power cars began in 1993 in GEC-Alsthom’s Crewe works, while the traction equipment came from GEC traction’s various works in Trafford Park-Manchester and Preston in Lancashire. The traction equipment’s cooling fans, like that of the Eurostar trains, came from Northern Ireland-giving the locomotives the characteristic roaring sound that Eurostar and the earlier class 91 electric locomotives have.
Designed by design agency Seymour-Powell in Fulham, South West London, the class 93 locos were designed to capture the hearts of the public following the success of the earlier InterCity 125 class 43 diesels in the 1970s, and would also be Britain’s answer to the French “TGV”. The first sets entered service in 1995, and to corremerate the introduction of the locomotives, British Rail commissioned a series of iconic artworks to be produced that were hung in its offices and waiting rooms along the Wsy Coast Mainline and sold to the public-for a considerable price. The last locomotives rolled off the production line in 1997, but so successful we’re the trains, BR ordered a follow on order for 15 additional vehicles in 1997 for work on the West’s Coast and East Coast Mainlines.
The units spawned the design of the “90s classes” of electric locomotives that shortly became a staple to the British rail fleet:
Class 94- 140 mph capable electric locomotives used for passenger sets.
Class 95- heavy duty Co-Co freight locos designed for heavy coal or steelworks trains
Class 96- dual voltage 125 mph electric locos designed for cross country and container freight workings from Scotland and Northern England onto the former BR Southern Region (now Network South East).
The class 93’s were the final hurrrah for the British train build in industry before its eventual collapse, and the last hurrah for GEC-the British engineering giant before it was swallowed up by Alstom in 1998.
The below is the fleet list for the original 15 locomotives built.
Class 93 Fleet List- January 1998
Number and Name - Date Built - Depot Allocation
93 001- Stephenson - July 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 002- Duchess of Buccleuch - July 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 003- Wolf of Badenoch - August 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 004- City of London - August 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 005- Princess Anne - September 1994 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 006- William Wallace - January 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 007- City of Manchester - January 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 008- Caledonian - March 1995 - Polmadie Traction Maintainance Depot
93 009- General Electric Company - May 1995 - Polmadie Traction Maintainance Depot
93 010- City of Preston - August 1995 - Polmadie Traction Maintainance Depot
93 011- Kingdom of Scotland - January 1996 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 012- Constantine - January 1996 -Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 013- Naomi Campbell - September 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 014- County of Cheshire - September 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot
93 015- Kingdom of Mercia September 1995 - Stonebridge Park High Speed Depot-
In my signature is the link to my timeline “Thatcher Survives-So Does British Rail” which explores this timeline in more detail.
The Alco Millenium Series - Part 1
It's always said that competition improves the breed, and it is entirely true that for North American railways this was absolutely true, even as their passenger operations were sloughed off to Amtrak and Via Rail in the 1970s, the freight haulers themselves took advantage of the many advances in freight rail technology - the container revolution, cargo box and skid programs, trailer on flat car ("piggyback") services, newer and bigger types of rail cars, computers for train and car tracking, unit trains and bulk trains - to get more efficient (and profitable) at providing freight services. The 1970s would also see this truly begin to blossom in a way that would more than quintuple the freight tonnage in the next half century.
The technology of locomotives was no exception. Despite the railroads frequently suffering financial problems (this ultimately first manifesting itself in the creation of Conrail in 1977 and then the Staggers Act in 1980) the competition for locomotive sales remained intense. General Motors' Electro-Motive Division and the alliance between General Electric and the American Locomotive Company had driven Baldwin into the arms of EMD and run the other steam builders completely out of the business (and kept the might of industrial behemoth Fairbanks-Morse to a relatively small impact), but when GE had struck out on their own with their Universal Series in the mid-1950s, it had made Alco's life rather more difficult, even as the company created first the later RS series of diesels and then the Century Series starting in 1962. By the late 1960s Alco was having a hard time finding sales and the company was in financial trouble....but at the end of the 1960s the creation of conglomerates was in vogue and Chrysler Corporation, the mighty Detroit carmaker who was seeking to diversify from its traditional base, saw Alco as an opportunity. Electrical equipment manufacturers Emerson Electric and Square D did too, and so was born an alliance.
Chrysler and Emerson Electric bought Alco's remains in February 1969, just as the company's big Century 636 was touring and struggling for orders. Emerson quickly set to work on improved electrical components, and Chrysler started it's involvement with the company by offering to modify and rebuild Century and RS series engines for better reliability. All the while, Chrysler learned the locomotive business and gathered what the customers wanted from their locomotives.
The Chrysler/Emerson Electric rebuilds of Alco units proved to be more than a little successful, particularly among Conrail and Burlington Northern, who used their rebuilt units as long as the late 1990s, and it taught Chrysler that what they had bought had plenty of worth indeed. But they also quickly learned that the "improved" Century Series, as good as it was, simply wasn't enough. Chrysler-Alco needed something to blow EMD and GE out of the water if the business was gonna be good to them.
The result was the Millenium Series.
A huge departure from its rivals and like nothing seen before, the Millenium Series was designed with hydroformed frame rails and separate fuel tanks and fuel pumps to allow the locomotive's prime mover to sit lower in the locomotive, lowering it's center of gravity and improving its stability. All Milleniums came with full carbodies to.improve aerodynamics, virtually all had dynamic brakes and all Milleniums came equipped with Emerson's electric anti-lag system on the turbochargers as well as with Bosch high-pressure fuel injection. The result was anywhere from 2600 to 3600 horsepower (depending on customer preference) in a strong, reliable package. Larger cabs with console-style controls made them more comfortable for train crews and the Bosch-injected Alco 251s improved fuel efficiency considerably over rivals and previous Alco locomotives.
Initially only Conrail, Rock Island and Burlington Northern ordered the initial Millenium 175DP/180DP models, but that changed once the power, efficiency and reliability of the Milleniums became known. Burlington Northern so liked theirs that their initial 25 180DPs were followed by 200 more. The Milleniums became known to railfans as 'blowers' thanks to the blowing sound the anti-lag systems made, but the wide-body units were instantly recognizable as soon well-liked by mechanical personnel as well.
By the time the improved 185DP/190DP twins came out in 1982-83, with new and better trucks, electronic traction control, water-cooled turbos and a 18-cylinder, 4250-horsepower prime mover option, the Millenium series was established as a player in the world of locomotives in North America, and the EMD SD50 and General Electric Dash-8 Series were being built partly to counter it. But much more was to come....
It's always said that competition improves the breed, and it is entirely true that for North American railways this was absolutely true, even as their passenger operations were sloughed off to Amtrak and Via Rail in the 1970s, the freight haulers themselves took advantage of the many advances in freight rail technology - the container revolution, cargo box and skid programs, trailer on flat car ("piggyback") services, newer and bigger types of rail cars, computers for train and car tracking, unit trains and bulk trains - to get more efficient (and profitable) at providing freight services. The 1970s would also see this truly begin to blossom in a way that would more than quintuple the freight tonnage in the next half century.
The technology of locomotives was no exception. Despite the railroads frequently suffering financial problems (this ultimately first manifesting itself in the creation of Conrail in 1977 and then the Staggers Act in 1980) the competition for locomotive sales remained intense. General Motors' Electro-Motive Division and the alliance between General Electric and the American Locomotive Company had driven Baldwin into the arms of EMD and run the other steam builders completely out of the business (and kept the might of industrial behemoth Fairbanks-Morse to a relatively small impact), but when GE had struck out on their own with their Universal Series in the mid-1950s, it had made Alco's life rather more difficult, even as the company created first the later RS series of diesels and then the Century Series starting in 1962. By the late 1960s Alco was having a hard time finding sales and the company was in financial trouble....but at the end of the 1960s the creation of conglomerates was in vogue and Chrysler Corporation, the mighty Detroit carmaker who was seeking to diversify from its traditional base, saw Alco as an opportunity. Electrical equipment manufacturers Emerson Electric and Square D did too, and so was born an alliance.
Chrysler and Emerson Electric bought Alco's remains in February 1969, just as the company's big Century 636 was touring and struggling for orders. Emerson quickly set to work on improved electrical components, and Chrysler started it's involvement with the company by offering to modify and rebuild Century and RS series engines for better reliability. All the while, Chrysler learned the locomotive business and gathered what the customers wanted from their locomotives.
The Chrysler/Emerson Electric rebuilds of Alco units proved to be more than a little successful, particularly among Conrail and Burlington Northern, who used their rebuilt units as long as the late 1990s, and it taught Chrysler that what they had bought had plenty of worth indeed. But they also quickly learned that the "improved" Century Series, as good as it was, simply wasn't enough. Chrysler-Alco needed something to blow EMD and GE out of the water if the business was gonna be good to them.
The result was the Millenium Series.
A huge departure from its rivals and like nothing seen before, the Millenium Series was designed with hydroformed frame rails and separate fuel tanks and fuel pumps to allow the locomotive's prime mover to sit lower in the locomotive, lowering it's center of gravity and improving its stability. All Milleniums came with full carbodies to.improve aerodynamics, virtually all had dynamic brakes and all Milleniums came equipped with Emerson's electric anti-lag system on the turbochargers as well as with Bosch high-pressure fuel injection. The result was anywhere from 2600 to 3600 horsepower (depending on customer preference) in a strong, reliable package. Larger cabs with console-style controls made them more comfortable for train crews and the Bosch-injected Alco 251s improved fuel efficiency considerably over rivals and previous Alco locomotives.
Initially only Conrail, Rock Island and Burlington Northern ordered the initial Millenium 175DP/180DP models, but that changed once the power, efficiency and reliability of the Milleniums became known. Burlington Northern so liked theirs that their initial 25 180DPs were followed by 200 more. The Milleniums became known to railfans as 'blowers' thanks to the blowing sound the anti-lag systems made, but the wide-body units were instantly recognizable as soon well-liked by mechanical personnel as well.
By the time the improved 185DP/190DP twins came out in 1982-83, with new and better trucks, electronic traction control, water-cooled turbos and a 18-cylinder, 4250-horsepower prime mover option, the Millenium series was established as a player in the world of locomotives in North America, and the EMD SD50 and General Electric Dash-8 Series were being built partly to counter it. But much more was to come....
ALCO 100 Series High Speed Train sets
Many people wanted to escape the increasing problems with New York City and its suburbs starting in the 1960s. Usually opting to settle in much calmer urban areas like those of Albany or Scranton, Pennsylvania. However, these same people still wanted to live with in acceptable travel distance to the Big Apple.
The New York Central Railroad saw this as the perfect opportunity to revitalize their passenger rail services. Which had been weakened especially in the east due to the rise of the Automobile. Not even President Eisenhower's Transport America bill, its support of public transport, and the accompanying deregulation could completely save the eastern roads. As such, The Central and other eastern roads turned to the east to Japan and its Shinkansen for influence, and decided to start upgrading their own train services accordingly.
To serve as the motive power for this purpose, the New York Central collaborated with ALCO, which had supplied most of their engine during the steam era, to create a new trainset. The end result was the 100 series. America's first attempt at a true high speed train. The railroad's electrified New York- Albany services helped the populace in their desire to have convenient transportation. Eventually, this service was extended all the way to Buffalo, leading to the creation of the Emperor over the entirety of the electrified route.
The 100 series aesthetically resembled the Spanish frim Talgo's trainsets. But they were longer and had four-wheel trucks instead of two wheel trucks. The motive power resembled the first German ICE trains in terms of appearance. But they were more powerful to accomodate for bigger trains. The first trainset ran on the New York Central's Emperor from New York to Buffalo on June 3, 1978. Shortly afterwards, their scope of operation was expanded to first Cleveland, OH then over the Water Level Route to Chicago. These engines could eventually be seen on the NYC running over almost every major New York Central passenger train by 1988. Wether it be the Chicago bound Lake Shore Limited, Cincinnati bound Ohio State Limited, or the St. Louis bound Southwest Limited.
The Baltimroe & Ohio also used these trainsets. Particularly on their revised version of the former Delaware, Lackawanna and Western's Phoebe Snow via Scranton, PA. As well as on the Crusader train over the former Reading. So they themselves ordered several more of the 100 series. Painted in the gray, maroon and yellow scheme of the Lackawanna Railroad.
The NYC's trainsets were eventually antiquated by the late 2000s, and spent their later days on regional services in the Midwest. Eventually all were retired by 2011, with one unit, E1a/E1b, on display at the former NYC roundhouse in Elkhart, Indiana.
Many people wanted to escape the increasing problems with New York City and its suburbs starting in the 1960s. Usually opting to settle in much calmer urban areas like those of Albany or Scranton, Pennsylvania. However, these same people still wanted to live with in acceptable travel distance to the Big Apple.
The New York Central Railroad saw this as the perfect opportunity to revitalize their passenger rail services. Which had been weakened especially in the east due to the rise of the Automobile. Not even President Eisenhower's Transport America bill, its support of public transport, and the accompanying deregulation could completely save the eastern roads. As such, The Central and other eastern roads turned to the east to Japan and its Shinkansen for influence, and decided to start upgrading their own train services accordingly.
To serve as the motive power for this purpose, the New York Central collaborated with ALCO, which had supplied most of their engine during the steam era, to create a new trainset. The end result was the 100 series. America's first attempt at a true high speed train. The railroad's electrified New York- Albany services helped the populace in their desire to have convenient transportation. Eventually, this service was extended all the way to Buffalo, leading to the creation of the Emperor over the entirety of the electrified route.
The 100 series aesthetically resembled the Spanish frim Talgo's trainsets. But they were longer and had four-wheel trucks instead of two wheel trucks. The motive power resembled the first German ICE trains in terms of appearance. But they were more powerful to accomodate for bigger trains. The first trainset ran on the New York Central's Emperor from New York to Buffalo on June 3, 1978. Shortly afterwards, their scope of operation was expanded to first Cleveland, OH then over the Water Level Route to Chicago. These engines could eventually be seen on the NYC running over almost every major New York Central passenger train by 1988. Wether it be the Chicago bound Lake Shore Limited, Cincinnati bound Ohio State Limited, or the St. Louis bound Southwest Limited.
The Baltimroe & Ohio also used these trainsets. Particularly on their revised version of the former Delaware, Lackawanna and Western's Phoebe Snow via Scranton, PA. As well as on the Crusader train over the former Reading. So they themselves ordered several more of the 100 series. Painted in the gray, maroon and yellow scheme of the Lackawanna Railroad.
The NYC's trainsets were eventually antiquated by the late 2000s, and spent their later days on regional services in the Midwest. Eventually all were retired by 2011, with one unit, E1a/E1b, on display at the former NYC roundhouse in Elkhart, Indiana.
Last edited: