@QTXAdsy here's something I thought of to help with more locomotive ideas.

What if the Great Central Railway was grouped into the Southern Railway. I thought of it because how in OTL the ambition was to link the GCR to further rail connections in Continental Europe. As such I couldn't help but wonder how it could have gotten if that link to the Continent was better realized with a link at least as far as the south coast.

I could also see Maunsell (or maybe John G. Robinson) design bigger locomotives. And same with Bulleid.
 
Interesting take. I made something similar incase you want to take a read at it. https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/southern-railway-21c2-evacuation-class.526568/
I did a similar thing myself for an AU I have with some friends - lemme know obviously if you guys wanna hear a bit more about it since I'm relatively new here (although have been lurking on this thread for some time).
Meet the Bulleid G1 2D-1, an AU take on a need for fast and powerful freight engines in an alternate WW2.
 

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This kinda lends itself well to the 4-8-0 above although not sure if the AU SR/GCR combo you are referring to would go the way of the 4-8-0 on 8 coupled designs and not the way of say a 2-8-2 or 4-8-2.
Well, I did imagine that in TTL, the LNER's Gresley 4-8-2 would be built. Leading to the Merchant Navies being Mountains too like Bulleid originally wanted.
 
An image I came across recently for an option for the South Australian Railways that wasn’t taken. In the 20s a new railway commissioner William Webb arrived and started looking for “big power“ engines ending up with the the 500, 600, and 700classes to replace the older 2-6-0s, 4-4-0s and others. Would have been interesting to see these mallets on the lines.

IMG_0682.jpeg
 
The PRR considered building a 2-6-6-4 class, instead of their OTL J1 2-10-4.

I wish they had built the 2-6-6-4, because the J1 was such a great locomotive. And they scrapped them all.
 
@QTXAdsy here's something I thought of to help with more locomotive ideas.

What if the Great Central Railway was grouped into the Southern Railway. I thought of it because how in OTL the ambition was to link the GCR to further rail connections in Continental Europe. As such I couldn't help but wonder how it could have gotten if that link to the Continent was better realized with a link at least as far as the south coast.

I could also see Maunsell (or maybe John G. Robinson) design bigger locomotives. And same with Bulleid.

This kinda lends itself well to the 4-8-0 above although not sure if the AU SR/GCR combo you are referring to would go the way of the 4-8-0 on 8 coupled designs and not the way of say a 2-8-2 or 4-8-2.

Well, I did imagine that in TTL, the LNER's Gresley 4-8-2 would be built. Leading to the Merchant Navies being Mountains too like Bulleid originally wanted.
You are all, and I must admit so do I when doing this, forgetting the reason why Maunsell and Bulleid never built the size or type of engine that was really required for the Southern, The Civil Engineering Department. Every time that either Maunsell or Bulleid came up with what on paper was a solution it was vetoed by the Civil Engineer. So everything actually built was a compromise. Pony trucks were out, Mountains were just rejected hence the Lord Nelsons and the Merchant Navies.
(Mind you it didn't help that Bulleid tried to do everything all at once, if only he could have built the 40's equivalent of Jarvis' rebuild (however not likely given his reaction to them)).
 
You are all, and I must admit so do I when doing this, forgetting the reason why Maunsell and Bulleid never built the size or type of engine that was really required for the Southern, The Civil Engineering Department. Every time that either Maunsell or Bulleid came up with what on paper was a solution it was vetoed by the Civil Engineer. So everything actually built was a compromise. Pony trucks were out, Mountains were just rejected hence the Lord Nelsons and the Merchant Navies.
(Mind you it didn't help that Bulleid tried to do everything all at once, if only he could have built the 40's equivalent of Jarvis' rebuild (however not likely given his reaction to them)).
True, very true. However, this is AU and if we want the Southern CED to shut up/be shut up then I'm sure we can butterfly it to be such (at least thats my thinking on this matter)
 
True, very true. However, this is AU and if we want the Southern CED to shut up/be shut up then I'm sure we can butterfly it to be such (at least thats my thinking on this matter)
In the sense of my AU, the reason the 4-8-0 comes about under Maunsell is that pressure from management due to situations in the late 1920s requiring it (although limited numbers are built before the Depression kicks in). For Bulleid it's essentially built on the demands of the War Office based on the performance of the Maunsell Gs combined with the early batches of West Countries and Q1s
 
In the sense of my AU, the reason the 4-8-0 comes about under Maunsell is that pressure from management due to situations in the late 1920s requiring it (although limited numbers are built before the Depression kicks in). For Bulleid it's essentially built on the demands of the War Office based on the performance of the Maunsell Gs combined with the early batches of West Countries and Q1s
Perhaps in such an AU, the additional reasoning could be that they were intended as 4-6-2s, but made into 4-8-0s to be better suited to mixed-traffic needs.

Especially since I did indeed have my own idea that if the GCR were to be merged into the Southern, it would be useful to have bigger locomotives. To say nothing how in my own TL Bulleid would indeed build the Merchant Navies as 4-8-2s, and have his 'Battleship' class of 2-8-2s be built.
 
I did a similar thing myself for an AU I have with some friends - lemme know obviously if you guys wanna hear a bit more about it since I'm relatively new here (although have been lurking on this thread for some time).
Tell us more about your AU. I'm especially interested in what other locomotives for both the Big Four and BR had.
 
Tell us more about your AU. I'm especially interested in what other locomotives for both the Big Four and BR had.
Long story but WW2 has reduced if not zero American involvement and drags on another year or so. For railways this essentially means that a lot of the Big Four start Petitioning the War Department for permission to design more permanent solutions to the need for locomotives than the WDs. So with SR not much is changed other than the addition of the G1 "Victory" Class 4-8-0s. This class was originally drawn up to provide a similar service to the P2s (which again due to the WD are not rebuilt by Thompson) but better suited for the SR. Bulleid originally draws them up as essentially just as powerful as the P2 but with smaller drivers however the WD ask for larger drivers for higher speed operations so that its not just the SR's answer to the WD 2-10-0s. Eastleigh builds 25 of these between 1944 and 1949 with BR rebuilding them with Walschaerts from 1953. They last into Strategic Reserve with all but two (2D-14 and 2D-22) broken up in the late 1990s.

GWR is a lot more convoluted and is very much a messy affair - They plan to very much expand post war and therefore spend a lot of money in the dying days drawing up for said expansion. The only real "War Baby" of the GWR is the "River Class" 4-6-0+0-6-4 Garratt and the digging up of Collet's 2-10-2T design as the 82XX, both of which are intended to allow locomotives to be pulled away from the Coalfields and onto the mainline. Essentially to free up the Kings from the Ebbw Vale line. There's only one River Class built and a small handful of 2-10-2T locos built before Hawksworth, seeing the end of war, changes tack and works on a Standard line. Some input from his previous work with Stanier leads to him proposing two express engines (a 4-6-4 and 4-6-2) for mainline duties. The Baltic is his answer to the Devon Banks and is the planned King successor and the Pacific is more of a general engine. One prototype of each gets built before BR comes in who then cancels the project since they were starting to go cripplingly overbudget. He also drew up many more designs although of these the only OTL difference is a small handful of 85XX class 2-6-0PTs which mainly work in the Forest of Dean.

LNER has ambitions to build a whole new line of locomotives with Peppercorn proposing 2-8-2s, 4-6-4s, 4-8-2s, 2-8-4Ts and even a 4-8-4. Only the 4-6-4 gets built as the Peppercorn W1 with management preferring to plug the gap with proven designs. The only other thing to come out of it is the BR 9P which is essentially a modified Peppercorn 4-8-2 with a Standard Boiler.

LMS is probably the least changed although a number of designs are drawn up and seriously considered. Stanier proposes a 4-8-0 as an 8MT design, a 4-6-4 as a next generation 8P, a 9P 4-8-4*, and a 10F 2-10-2 for coal trains. Fairburn continues to pursue a 4-6-4 but is personally more keen on diesel designs. Ivatt is a realist and doesn't really see a viability to diesel immediately but continues on the 10000 and 10001. He proposes to move more towards principals of Super Power to keep fuel costs down and power output up and so proposes spins on previous designs. He suggests a 2-10-4 on the basis of the Stanier 10F and also proposes a 9MT 2-8-4 "Black Seven" which would later form some of the basis for the Riddles 9MT 2-8-2. Riddles himself also gets a word in on the LMS's demands for a 10F and independently submits a 2-6-6-4 11MT but this is never seriously considered (both due to politics and it being a wildly impractical idea in the eyes of the LMS).

BR is also similar in the standard line, however there are some fairly major differences on the more powerful end of the spectrum. The increased traffic due to war never really goes away and BR start to consider things beyond the planned 9F. They request Riddles to draw up plans for both a passenger and mixed traffic engine to fulfil the 8-9 power bracket and a freight engine even more powerful than the 9F. The first built is the Riddles 9MT 2-8-2 which is basically a 9F boiler fitted to a Mikado frame to allow for higher speed and greater versatility. The 9P is essentially a combination of the Peppercorn 4-8-2 and the Stanier 4-8-4 but this almost did not get built. However, an accident on the ECML that takes out a Gresley A4 and a Peppercorn A2 leads to BR allowing Riddles to built the 4-8-2 as a replacement. One of these becomes "Evening Star" instead of the 9F and is the last BR steam loco finished ever. Finally the colossal 10F which is a one off built by Beyer Peacock to essentially a cut down AD60 4-8-4+4-8-4 design. BR were originally going to go with a Riddles simple articulated design but concerns were raised over clearances and curve tolerance, leading Beyer to step in and suggest the design which gets built. Finally there is also the 5MT 4-6-4T which has frames cut but is never finished (with a replica built in the 2000s) and also the Class 5 Glens which are a small series of 4-4-2s built around the same time as the Clans for Scottish service replacing the slew of 4-4-0s and 4-4-2s.

BR also inherits a far more profitable narrow gauge network briefly so starts working on improving that but aside from the 2-6-6-2Ts and 4-6-4Ts for the L&BR. However BR sells most lines off to enthusiasts throughout the 1960s aside from the Vale of Rheidol and L&BR which they can't find anyone willing to take it over who is also willing to fulfil freight contracts that BR had brokered with local industries like Mines. These then become not only the last location of steam outside of reserve on BR but also the last steam on revenue freight in the UK.

You are more than welcome to question my reasoning on any decision here - some of it is simply "because its cool" with reasons tbd later. This also does not include pre WW2 changes that I've use minor butterflies to make but they are minimal for BR at least.

* Minor note: this actually ends up getting built by enthusiasts who bought the plans by accident at a car boot sale and decided to recreate the "Stillborn Stanier". This eventually develops into a situation rather like the A1/P2 Trust but for locomotives that were on the cusp of being built. Their current project as of 2023 TTL is the Stillborn GCR 2-10-2 Vauclain Compound with proposals for the Hawksworth 4-8-2 being the next to be built.
 
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That is just the BR side of things. I've tried to be as global as possible so there's some changes worldwide such as 2ft in Maine and Quebec (inspired IRRC from an idea from this thread), I've done a lot on the Rio Grande, Germany, The Philippines, and some in Japan (including the following through of the proposals for a steam Shinkansen). That's also not getting into Swedish 891 mm gauge railways such as the AU DRGJ and FKJ which are fairly extensive narrow gauge lines in the middle and north of Sweden and parts of Norway and Northern Finland.
 
That is just the BR side of things. I've tried to be as global as possible so there's some changes worldwide such as 2ft in Maine and Quebec (inspired IRRC from an idea from this thread), I've done a lot on the Rio Grande, Germany, The Philippines, and some in Japan (including the following through of the proposals for a steam Shinkansen). That's also not getting into Swedish 891 mm gauge railways such as the AU DRGJ and FKJ which are fairly extensive narrow gauge lines in the middle and north of Sweden and parts of Norway and Northern Finland.
What did you envision for the Rio Grande?
 
What did you envision for the Rio Grande?
A much more dual gauge network, with 3ft being extensively laid in the 1940s and 1950s to serve new mining prospects in the Rockies. They also buy the former DSP&P, C&S 3ft, RGS and Uintah lines to form a fairly cohesive 3ft gauge network spanning the Colorado, Utah, NM and Wyoming Rockies. Meanwhile, they electrify their main through Moffatt (eventually reaching both Denver and SLS at each end) as well as fully buying up Western Pacific and having a running deal with the MoPac. It's quite radically different but it makes sense for me.
 
A much more dual gauge network, with 3ft being extensively laid in the 1940s and 1950s to serve new mining prospects in the Rockies. They also buy the former DSP&P, C&S 3ft, RGS and Uintah lines to form a fairly cohesive 3ft gauge network spanning the Colorado, Utah, NM and Wyoming Rockies. Meanwhile, they electrify their main through Moffatt (eventually reaching both Denver and SLS at each end) as well as fully buying up Western Pacific and having a running deal with the MoPac. It's quite radically different but it makes sense for me.
I think building to a 3' 6'' gauge instead, as @TheMann suggested, would work better for hgaving a sustainable NG network.
 
Personally I'm using the Philippines to really act out my designs for a 3 ft 6 in/4 ft 8.5 in fantasies (although I did consider using either Iberian or 5 ft 3 in as the large gauge for a time).
 
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