Tody's After Effects - Chinese Mejii

Who is to say that a resurgent China would not reclaim the territories it lost prior to its period of modernization, or perhaps even gain? Remember, the author of this thread is asking what a China having gone through a Meiji-like period of westernization and modernization would look like in the early 21st century. A stronger modernized China (presumably still under the Qing dynasty) would not take any cession of its territory lying down, and would likely fight in a future conflict to reclaim it.

It all depends on the reformation of the Russian Military. After viewing the Franco-Prussian war, Alexander II reformed the military in 1874. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but i don't think even with China undergoing major reforms is going to be able to defeat this newly reformed Russian military, especially with the Crimean War 20 years behind it.
 
Who is to say that a resurgent China would not reclaim the territories it lost prior to its period of modernization, or perhaps even gain? Remember, the author of this thread is asking what a China having gone through a Meiji-like period of westernization and modernization would look like by the present day. A stronger modernized China (presumably still under the Qing dynasty) would not take any cession of its territory lying down, and would likely fight in a future conflict to reclaim it.
Revanchism doesn't take a prominent part in the modernization process-- Japan ceded most of the Kuril Islands to Russia 1855 and never reclaimed then even after the Russo-Japanese War when they were in a fine position to do so. Part of "pulling a Meiji" involves recognizing the benefits of diplomacy and that one's own country is not always at the top of the heap.
 
It all depends on the reformation of the Russian Military. After viewing the Franco-Prussian war, Alexander II reformed the military in 1874. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but i don't think even with China undergoing major reforms is going to be able to defeat this newly reformed Russian military, especially with the Crimean War 20 years behind it.
?? If China reforms its military and industry, what can Russia do? As long as Russia doesn't have a TransSiberian Railroad, it simply can't support more than minor operations in the far east.

OTL, the Russians got that chunk of land after Britain and France took Peking in the Second Opium War, kicking China while she was down.
 
?? If China reforms its military and industry, what can Russia do? As long as Russia doesn't have a TransSiberian Railroad, it simply can't support more than minor operations in the far east.

But for some magical reason, China can?

Irkutsk to Khabarovsk is as far and as empty as Beijing to Khabarovsk. Moscow is almost as close to Urumqi as Beijing. Whatever modernised China can do, Russia can do better having a lot more experience in Central Asian warfare just recently, for example. There's no Sea of Japan to facilitate supply operations. China will do everything by foot.
 
I hate to nitpick, but what's been described is not really 'pullign a Meiji' it's more 'pulling a Peter the Great'. The Meiji Restoration wasn't pulled off by a member of the imperial family, least of all by the Emperor himself. It was caused by a group of samurai from satsuma and from Yokohama banding together to get rid of the inner clique around the Emperor and the Shogun. They then transferred power to themselves and cut the Emperor out altogether.

This can't really happen in China as the Empire has no equivalent of the samurai class; perhaps some sort of military coup, but the thing is that the Eurpean powers have already opened China through the Opium Wars and the Unequal Treaties, whereas Japan was only just emerging on the European market when it pulled itself together.

If we lok at any sort of Chinese resurgence, we se that the Europeans fairly quickly quashed it. The Boxer Rebelion can be seen like this; it wasn't the very conservative, almost primitive beliefs of the rebels that scared the Europeans, it was their nationalism and their hatred of the West. Any nationalist, Imperialist 'restoration' would require a confrontation with the European powers which would probably meet with failure.

Unless, that is, it was a Eurpean backed venture. Perhaps after the Boxer Rebellion the Germans or the French decide that they want to dominate China as their exclusive sphere of influence. They get some fairly liberal, Euro-friendly family member no the throne and then modernise his administration with lots of 'advisors'. Once this has happened for about 10 or so years, there might be a military coup to remove the European backers. The Europeans want to fight back but the other colonial powers, keen to preserve the status quo stop them from intervening and China becomes more independent, although I doubt they'd be getting Hong Kong back for awhile.
 
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