To the Victor, Go the Spoils (Redux): A Plausible Central Powers Victory

Lol I appreciate that but the real one will be this big.

That thing aint nuthin.

eXJ42D7.png

*dont read into the Venice thing, that was just me doodling - this is like 10% done


Yes, later.

After all the peace treaties
Though Austria ripping Venetia off of Italy would be a cool twist, I can’t think of another TL where I’ve seen it done
 
Though Austria ripping Venetia off of Italy would be a cool twist, I can’t think of another TL where I’ve seen it done
If Italy descends into Civil War, Venice might try declaring independence. Then becoming an A-H client state in exchange for protection might seem the lesser evil compared to re-annexation by some Fascist/Communist Regime.
 
If Italy descends into Civil War, Venice might try declaring independence. Then becoming an A-H client state in exchange for protection might seem the lesser evil compared to re-annexation by some Fascist/Communist Regime.
Mmm that’s a thought. What was Venice’s position under Austria pre-1866? A viceroyalty no? Can’t say I’m super familiar with Italian history 1815-59
 
There's still a strong movement for Venetian independence today, so Venice proclaiming a new Most Serene Republic wouldn't be that farfetched under these circumstances. Now would they get to stay independent is the million dollar questions...
 
Mmm that’s a thought. What was Venice’s position under Austria pre-1866? A viceroyalty no? Can’t say I’m super familiar with Italian history 1815-59
It was one of two parts of the Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia. They were less anti-Austrian than Lombardy during 1848, IIRC, but not by much.
 
Analysis
Signed on November 29th 1918, the Treaty would enter effect by January 1st 1919 - officially ending the conflict between the Central Powers and France, Belgium and Luxembourg. The treaty would follow the German tradition of naming treaties in the identity as the signing city, as opposed to the palace, and thus would be known as the Treaty of Brussels, rather Laeken.
I had never thought of this before but it is definitely true…... Treaty of Vienna (1864), Peace of Prague (1866), Treaty of Frankfurt (1871), Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (1918) and Treaty of Bucharest (1918). I am immensely enjoying TT and learning new details like this.
 
There's still a strong movement for Venetian independence today, so Venice proclaiming a new Most Serene Republic wouldn't be that farfetched under these circumstances. Now would they get to stay independent is the million dollar questions...
Not back in 1918
 
For Austria to grab Venetia would be a supremely stupid thing to do; back then the region host no significant industrial infrastructure, nor is host ti significant resources. It would only mean grabbinv many more unruly Italians.
What I see is Austria grabbing some Key alpine passes, maybe moving the border up to a major River and maybe imposing a demilitarizion of the region
 
Not back in 1918
I actually recall reading that secessionist sympathies gained credence during the turmoil and economic downturn of the postwar period.

Right after World War I, the economic and political situation in Veneto was critical, so that a former Prime Minister and native of Venice, Luigi Luzzatti, wrote to Prime Minister Vittorio Emanuele Orlando and told him there could be a "Venetian Ireland", in parallel to the simultaneous Irish War of Independence, while the prefect of Treviso signalled the risk that a separatist movement aimed at separating Veneto from Italy might flourish in the province of Treviso.
That said I don't think it's super likely.
 
Alright so, I'm a little late to the party but I must say I love how you handled the navy side of things. Very plausible stuff and also well written, as is the whole story.
Now, reading the chapters on the peace conference, I sense British shipyards are not going to fall into the shadow of themselves that they historically were in the mid-1930s.

I am also starting to think France and Italy might have common interests in the future and increased cooperation between the two wouldn't suprise me at all. Both have grievances against Germany (and to a lesser extent, the UK), both now have to share the continent with an almost-egemonic German state and both have ressources that may be helpful to each other. I might be completely off track here, but I think the seed of the future European opposition to Berlin is an eventual Paris-Rome axis.
 
Alright so, I'm a little late to the party but I must say I love how you handled the navy side of things. Very plausible stuff and also well written, as is the whole story.
Now, reading the chapters on the peace conference, I sense British shipyards are not going to fall into the shadow of themselves that they historically were in the mid-1930s.

I am also starting to think France and Italy might have common interests in the future and increased cooperation between the two wouldn't suprise me at all. Both have grievances against Germany (and to a lesser extent, the UK), both now have to share the continent with an almost-hegemonic German state and both have ressources that may be helpful to each other. I might be completely off track here, but I think the seed of the future European opposition to Berlin is an eventual Paris-Rome axis.
Maybe, but there are the Bolsheviks to the east and the soon to be created USSR. A successful Germany after WWI could position itself as the 'Shield of Europe' against the dragon of Communism. This could play out even faster once the Italian Communists really get going with the whole 'revolution' thing and it will likely spread into Austria-Hungary, forcing a German military intervention.

The UK and Germany might find themselves becoming reluctant allies against the rise of Communism in Eastern and Central Europe, while no doubt continuing to plan for an eventual second war against each other.
 
Maybe AH can survive but I have a feeling they are going to struggle
It ist for Germany from Interesse that they survivie?

AH gone: Germany can annexd Austria and Böhmen and there IS no other greater Power in Estern Europa. And they have Not the Problems from AH and can Profis from there benifits in Education and Organisation.

AH survivie: Maybe an Strong alley and a easier comunication when you habe one big state and Not 10 diffrents which you all hate.
 
From what I've seen so far in the story - and judging from OTL - it'd be unlikely to see A-H dissolved.

There is the unknown factor on if TTL earlier battles had a similar effect on the nationalist movements as Third Piave did OTL - but then again, that's I feel on of the weaker argued points TTL so far. I'm unsure if with German advances in France bolstering A-H morale and Entente troops pulled out of Italy (and no Americans arriving yet IIRC) something of that scale of Italian advance would even have even possible at an earlier point than OTL.

Still: with a victory of sorts to point to - even if mostly resting on the shoulders of Germany - the Austrian government has the legitimacy to rally the people to themselves over splinter governments that might or might not turn up. Even if only by kicking autonomy and similar concessions down the road a year or three. For it to be properly handled of course.

Similarly, at least in the Cisleithanian part of the Empire the communists aren't really that much of a problem judging by OTL. The socialists in Vienna generally had a strong leaning to working within the government - even if some follow the line of 'revolution through legislation' - and similarly in Prague there aren't that many hardcore revolutionaries. Not so sure about the parts that today belong to Ukraine - with the civil war going on over the border involving more or less the same ethnicity (Ruthenian - Ukrainian - where to draw a line?) - but even there the outlet of just crossing the border exists.

The Hungarian part is probably more volatile. There were after all the OTL post war 'Soviets' that sprung up. And more than a bit of nationalist tension too, due to the Magyarization politic going on, a factor that Cisleithania lacks when it comes to nationalist agitation.

Still, pragmatically it's something that may or may not be of use when it comes to renegotiate the Ausgleich.

But in the end there is another big factor: A dissolution of A-H would only weaken Germany's position. Even if they could annex the industrial heartlands of Bohemia and Austria - without the rump, the internal trade lines, the resources and agriculture, the population, and the stability A-H brings Germany too will lose out.

Not to mention that such a dissolution would only strengthen the former common enemies of Serbia, Italy and Rumania, who would jump at the chance to get some scraps of a dissolving A-H. And at least in the case of Italy an annexation of Austria would bring Germany into direct territorial conflict.
 
It ist for Germany from Interesse that they survivie?

AH gone: Germany can annexd Austria and Böhmen and there IS no other greater Power in Estern Europa. And they have Not the Problems from AH and can Profis from there benifits in Education and Organisation.

AH survivie: Maybe an Strong alley and a easier comunication when you habe one big state and Not 10 diffrents which you all hate.
There's the question of how it affects German inner politics. An influx of milions of Catholics and such industrial areas would benefit Zentrum and SPD respectively, so the Prussian elites might oppose this hypothetical Anschluss.
 
Top