To the Victor, Go the Spoils (Redux): A Plausible Central Powers Victory

I like the chapter, the idea that a somewhat victorious Germany may try to push a naval battle, but with forces in the navy generally being against it, is probably no matter how much the Grand Fleet outclasses the Kassiermarine.

The fact that it ended with Germans giving up before it really started is probably a good way of showing this.
 
I like the chapter, the idea that a somewhat victorious Germany may try to push a naval battle, but with forces in the navy generally being against it, is probably no matter how much the Grand Fleet outclasses the Kassiermarine.

The fact that it ended with Germans giving up before it really started is probably a good way of showing this.

Everyone just what the damn war to end already. Germany overplayed their hand at sea, and will pay the costs, but everyone is just exhausted, and whats the Great War to be over with, and the boys to come home alive, and not buried far from home. Still a somewhat victorious Germany on the mainland at least.

Granted, the UK will also still find itself not the 'land fit for heroes' as some claimed in OTL, and will still claim which is a lie.
 
Bravo Zulu My understanding is that the KM plans OTL was for the engagement to take place off Terschelling but I could see Hipper changing those plans given the different dynamics of this TL. Yes some degree of mutiny is the probable outcome.

At some you need to give some consideration to what is going on in Ireland.
 
At some you need to give some consideration to what is going on in Ireland.
All in good time.

Will say I do consider things way ahead, so like i'll write about six months at the same time, so it's not like I plan an event without consideration of elsewhere etc or OTL events that happen that I dont mention.
 
If you wanted the KM to sail out, this was a good way of doing it. I think also the army may consider if this is a good time to reengage.
Well played. Now the Germans may try to be reasonable, but let’s see if the British get overconfident.
 
Well, kudos to the German sailors on being some of the few men in the past few years to avoid a meaningless death in the war! Guess Germany will have to hope for their own Talleyrand to help get the run-around on the Anglo bloc, because the not-so-wooden wall ain't going away...
 
I really really hate that Britain is going to steal victory from the jaws of defeat here. Germany earned their victory over France, and now Britain is going to force Germany into a mutilated peace.

I guarantee that'll be the historical narrative in Germany, at the very least.

EDIT: As I made clear before,, this is about me being a partisan of Germany the historical character in WWI TLs, not a demand the author change anything or anything like that. If I hated the TL itself, I wouldn't be reading it at all.
 
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I really really hate that Britain is going to steal victory from the jaws of defeat here. Germany earned their victory over France, and now Britain is going to force Germany into a mutilated peace.

I guarantee that'll be the historical narrative in Germany, at the very least.

EDIT: As I made clear before,, this is about me being a partisan of Germany the historical character in WWI TLs, not a demand the author change anything or anything like that. If I hated the TL itself, I wouldn't be reading it at all.
Its actually an interesting and scary prospect you outline. A strong and victorious Germany which is out for revenge.
 
Its not Britain seizing victory from the jaws of defeat so much as Britain has yet to be defeated. Sure the BEF has been wrecked but it's not like they are in a France situation.

And Germany having the Italian dolchstosslegende ITTL would be interesting, although then again Britain can do very little in Eastern Europe where Germany has acquired colonies actually worth having...
 
I really really hate that Britain is going to steal victory from the jaws of defeat here. Germany earned their victory over France, and now Britain is going to force Germany into a mutilated peace.

I guarantee that'll be the historical narrative in Germany, at the very least.

EDIT: As I made clear before,, this is about me being a partisan of Germany the historical character in WWI TLs, not a demand the author change anything or anything like that. If I hated the TL itself, I wouldn't be reading it at all.

Its actually an interesting and scary prospect you outline. A strong and victorious Germany which is out for revenge.

Its not Britain seizing victory from the jaws of defeat so much as Britain has yet to be defeated. Sure the BEF has been wrecked but it's not like they are in a France situation.

And Germany having the Italian dolchstosslegende ITTL would be interesting, although then again Britain can do very little in Eastern Europe where Germany has acquired colonies actually worth having...


If it helps, even the British can only go so far with their demands. It not the same as the Fourteen Points, or Wilsonianism, but they are limits.

As said, they very little the British could do in Eastern Europe, that's the Kaiser's playground. Same for total lack of allies in Europe itself with the rest of the Entente folds one another the other.

Same for a embitter France that may blame the UK, and America for failing to win the war while Frenchmen died in No Man's Man just as they blame Germany itself.
 
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My worry for the initial plan was not that the Germans wouldn't order it but that the crews would be unlikely to go for it. Having it start but essentially collapse before it went anywhere due to crew unrest and quick British maneuvering seems a logical outcome to me.
 
Its not Britain seizing victory from the jaws of defeat so much as Britain has yet to be defeated. Sure the BEF has been wrecked but it's not like they are in a France situation.

And Germany having the Italian dolchstosslegende ITTL would be interesting, although then again Britain can do very little in Eastern Europe where Germany has acquired colonies actually worth having...
Germany isn't going to be able to get almost any of their war aims in the West now, so it will be a mutilated peace for Germany in France/Belgium. Not unless Britain trades those for Germany's colonies, and Britain may just decide to keep those anyway because what is the Kaisar gonna do about it?
 
Germany isn't going to be able to get almost any of their war aims in the West now, so it will be a mutilated peace for Germany in France/Belgium. Not unless Britain trades those for Germany's colonies, and Britain may just decide to keep those anyway because what is the Kaisar gonna do about it?

Honestly losing the African Colonies would not be the worst thing for Germany. Germany can still pushed at least some of their goals in France and Belgium. The British won at sea, but even they'll what peace.
 
I really really hate that Britain is going to steal victory from the jaws of defeat here. Germany earned their victory over France, and now Britain is going to force Germany into a mutilated peace.

I guarantee that'll be the historical narrative in Germany, at the very least.

EDIT: As I made clear before,, this is about me being a partisan of Germany the historical character in WWI TLs, not a demand the author change anything or anything like that. If I hated the TL itself, I wouldn't be reading it at all.
A Germany with "a mutilated victory", rather than "a stab in the back" opens up a lot of interesting possibilities. We could have a narrative arise in which everybody in Germany gave their all to winning the war, only for the illegal British blockade to invalidate their sacrifices. Germany may have won on the battlefield, but had lost the peace in the West due to British underhandedness. Such a narrative could create a Germany that, in regards to domestic policy, is less focused on rooting out "subversive elements" to ensure a loyal population and more focused on internal improvement to mitigate the effects of another British blockade.
 
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Honestly probably the best case scenario for Germany at the moment, avoiding the sure disaster that would come from a sea battle.
Not sure how this leads to Integralist Austria-Hungary though.
 
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Winning the Peace
A Battle at Silver Pit?
29th October - 2nd September 1918



.......If you want to see how a real fleet engagement may have turned out in 1918, I highly recommend the following video:
TheReformer, I like how you have pleased both sets of your fans in “Winning The Peace: A Battle At Silver Pit?”

First, you had the Germans, albeit via mutiny, make a wise naval decision not to engage the British fleet in your timeline. Then, second, you provided a YouTube video showing very plausibly how just such an encounter would probably have played out. Talk about another, even more devastating, Trafalgar !

TheReformer giveth and TheReformer taketh away which lets us have our cake and eat it too.
 
HSF: "My work here is done."
The rest of Germany: "But you didn't do anything."
HSF: *flips cape and strides off*

Seriously though, that was the best outcome possible for a 1918 sortie by the HSF. By that point the only winning move was not to play.
 
Honestly losing the African Colonies would not be the worst thing for Germany. Germany can still pushed at least some of their goals in France and Belgium. The British won at sea, but even they'll what peace.
True. But it depends on what Britain is willing to let Germany get away with. I could see Britain keeping the colonies *and* forcing Germany into a super-weak treaty. After all, really, what is Germany gonna do about it? Boner Law and the Conservatives certainly won't have the grace to not piss Germany off even more than they already have.
A Germany with "a mutilated victory", rather than "a stab in the back" opens up a lot of interesting possibilities. We could have a narrative arise in which everybody in Germany gave their all to winning the war, only for the illegal British blockade to invalidate their sacrifices. Germany may have won on the battlefield, but had lost the peace in the West due to British underhandedness. Such a narrative could create a Germany that, in regards to domestic policy, is less focused on rooting out "subversive elements" to ensure a loyal population and more focused on internal improvement to mitigate the effects of another British blockade.
I could see the Naval officer corps getting socially and politically eviscerated, a lot of heads rolling. But yes, Germany will be doing everything they can
 
I really really hate that Britain is going to steal victory from the jaws of defeat here. Germany earned their victory over France, and now Britain is going to force Germany into a mutilated peace.

I guarantee that'll be the historical narrative in Germany, at the very least.

EDIT: As I made clear before,, this is about me being a partisan of Germany the historical character in WWI TLs, not a demand the author change anything or anything like that. If I hated the TL itself, I wouldn't be reading it at all.
Speaking of which, I wonder what Adolf Hitler's reaction to the peace treaty ITTL is going to be. He likely isn't going to be throwing himself on the pillows and crying into them like he did OTL, though he's probably still going to be disappointed - he seemed convinced during WWI IOTL that Germany would annex Austria and form a "Greater Germany" if it won.
 
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