Well there is negative value in doing so, as doing so means the Germans have an excuse to go there and kick the Brits out.There's zero strategic value in fighting Germany on the continent once France and Belgium leave the conflict. Germany cannot occupy the channel ports because it would breach the terms of their armistice.
Also, more pressing issue: both governments have asked Britain to leave so as to avoid breaching their armistice terms. To remain thus would be illegal.
Germany wouldn't benefit by attacking the BEF given that their forces in front of the BEF would both be narrowly outnumbered and also withdrawing.Well there is negative value in doing so, as doing so means the Germans have an excuse to go there and kick the Brits out.
What they should presumably do is say that they will leave when relived by French troops, that way Germany can't just backtrack on armistice (not that they would).
Correct me if I’m wrong, but, it is my understanding that in this period, before decent bombers, attacking a Fleet in port was plain suicide.I wonder if the British are going to sink the French fleet like when they pulled out at Dunkirk in WW2, or if are they not quite that dedicated to the cause of a continued war.
…I wonder if the British are going to sink the French fleet like when they pulled out at Dunkirk in WW2, or if are they not quite that dedicated to the cause of a continued war.
Too risky. They'd have to raise steam, launch their fleet down to French ports, smash into them, sink the French fleet, and escape. All while the German fleet doesn't intervene in any way.I wonder if the British are going to sink the French fleet like when they pulled out at Dunkirk in WW2, or if are they not quite that dedicated to the cause of a continued war.
That's (1) very risky logistics-wise and (2) politically unwise, they would be shutting themselves out of the continent with this.I wonder if the British are going to sink the French fleet like when they pulled out at Dunkirk in WW2, or if are they not quite that dedicated to the cause of a continued war.
I think it's worth noting that there are lots of different forms of war.I wonder if the British are going to sink the French fleet like when they pulled out at Dunkirk in WW2, or if are they not quite that dedicated to the cause of a continued war.
By August 1918 the Bolsheviks and Germany still have a cooperative relationship (working together on Unternehmen Schlußstein, for example) and even the German military was divided on whether to work against or with the Bolsheviks, not to mention the govt. Ludendorff was for an intervention since June but, iirc, Paul von Hintze was for working with the Soviets against the Whites. Now that an armistice is in the West though the factor is heavily against any pro-soviet intervention (German aversion to supporting the Whites was because they wanted to rejoin the war), but in Aug 1918 the Reds appear like a dying force, hammered from every side, while Germany itself is still on the verge on massive postwar resentment (the Spartacists have yet to rise up after all). It might take time for Germany to choose to focus on the east.I don't think the Reds will win the civil war ITTL.
Germans were far more willing to provide weapons and supplies to the Whites than the Allies, but Germany's own defeat and revolutions had ended their support. Entente was unwilling to send help, even though Kolchak was willing and able to pay for material with gold (having seized Imperial reserves). Hindenburg and Ludendorf wanted to strangle the Red Beast in it's crib. Civilian government was more skeptical, but the prestige of military is now immense, so they'll be able to push for some sort "strategic intervention".
Vulunteer Army is right on the border of German sphere, they'll probably receive a lot of obsolete equipment that Germans will have to spare.
A good analysis. Tho one I doubt the Germans would make.To be honest, I think that USSR in a long term is beneficial to Germany purely from geopolitical approach.
A) USSR will not be getting into any alliances with either UK, Italy or France, due to perception of communist ideology as radical and dangerous, and henceforth will remain isolated on world stage, the only way spreading influence would be forced one.
B) USSR can forget about investments from any of the big economics of '20s. Say so to technological assistance. OTL USSR cooperated with Germany throughout 20s in those areas.
What we are getting? USSR that is significantly weaker economically and population-wise, is politically isolated from the rest of the world, and is a technological backwater.
If Whites win, they won't be isolated, they will be internationally recognized, and their path to economic cooperation, recovery and technology exchange will be much easier thn Soviet one.
I am willing to bet, Germans wouldn't intervene, they will supply White movement with whatever resources, while consolidating their hold on MittleEuropa. Ideal outcome for Germany would be protracted Civil War, bloodier than OTL, from which Reds emerge victorious. Such Russia will be in no shape to go against Germany even in 20 years.
The problem is that if they help the USSR, sooner or later, they'll turn on Germany. Communism is fundamentally incompatible with the German Empire, after all.To be honest, I think that USSR in a long term is beneficial to Germany purely from geopolitical approach.
A) USSR will not be getting into any alliances with either UK, Italy or France, due to perception of communist ideology as radical and dangerous, and henceforth will remain isolated on world stage, the only way spreading influence would be forced one.
B) USSR can forget about investments from any of the big economics of '20s. Say so to technological assistance. OTL USSR cooperated with Germany throughout 20s in those areas.
What we are getting? USSR that is significantly weaker economically and population-wise, is politically isolated from the rest of the world, and is a technological backwater.
If Whites win, they won't be isolated, they will be internationally recognized, and their path to economic cooperation, recovery and technology exchange will be much easier thn Soviet one.
I am willing to bet, Germans wouldn't intervene, they will supply White movement with whatever resources, while consolidating their hold on MittleEuropa. Ideal outcome for Germany would be protracted Civil War, bloodier than OTL, from which Reds emerge victorious. Such Russia will be in no shape to go against Germany even in 20 years.
Soviets had plenty of foreign investment. They had foreign concessions since 1920s. Some of their newly built industrial cities were literally designed by American industrialists.USSR can forget about investments from any of the big economics of '20s. Say so to technological assistance. OTL USSR cooperated with Germany throughout 20s in those areas.
And any "Red" disturbances taking place in Germany will be seen as inspired by events in Russia. Everything else aside, Bolsheviks cannot succeed because by doing so they'll give German radicals some ideas.The problem is that if they help the USSR, sooner or later, they'll turn on Germany. Communism is fundamentally incompatible with the German Empire, after all.
This was IOTL due to Soviet Union controlling large swathes of Eastern Europe, Central Asia and Caucasus. In TTVGTS, Soviets would probably hold only Central Asia, and so US will more likely invest in Ukraine, Baltics, Belarus, and Caucasus statelets. Soviet Union will be basically confined to OTL Russian Federation + parts of Central Asia. Americans invested heavily into the area of Ukrainian SSR OTL. I've been born in Donbas. Half of the industrial cities here were founded either in 1880-1910 timeframe, either 1926-1940. They will do so too here... except it will be Ukrainian State.Soviets had plenty of foreign investment. They had foreign concessions since 1920s. Some of their newly built industrial cities were literally designed by American industrialists.
Having purged local capitalists, they had to invite foreign ones to actually be able to continue their industrialization.
I didn't write any word on Germany helping Soviets. They ideally for them will be supporting weaker side to prolong RCW. And if Russia tries to invade MittleEuropa sometime in 40s-50s, this won't matter to current German leadership. After all they'd be dead at this point, and by the 40s Germany would completely consolidate it's hold onto Eastern Europe, and will be likely to win this "rematch"The problem is that if they help the USSR, sooner or later, they'll turn on Germany. Communism is fundamentally incompatible with the German Empire, after all.
German Freikorps crushed Spartakist Revolution on their own in November 1918-January 1919. To suppose any kind of communist revolution in Germany that has triumphed in Great War, will be... quite an assumption, lest I say so.And any "Red" disturbances taking place in Germany will be seen as inspired by events in Russia. Everything else aside, Bolsheviks cannot succeed because by doing so they'll give German radicals some ideas.
They weren't saying Red efforts in Germany would succeed, but that Germany wouldn't want to give them ideas.German Freikorps crushed Spartakist Revolution on their own in November 1918-January 1919. To suppose any kind of communist revolution in Germany that has triumphed in Great War, will be... quite an assumption, lest I say so.