"To Introduce our Guest Star, that's What I'm Here to Do..." The Hensonverse Fan Contribution Thread

I Want my MoTV

MTV to Start its Brand Refreshing and Reshuffling for the 21st Century

Entertainment Weekly Magazine, January 5, 2000
Guest post by @Plateosaurus and @MNM041


Much of the general public and other works of entertainment have been mocking MTV lately and for the past few years for focusing less on actual music and increasingly with mindless reality TV and (admittedly good) scripted animation aimed at teenagers, with even the Em’s own shows have taken aim at itself for abandoning it’s original goals of “all music all the time”, not helped by competition from the rising success of RSTV and the rise of online media. However, following a staff shakeup late last year that would put the network under the WB and the assumption of leadership by John Sykes, the network announced last September instead of Music, the M in itself will now stand for Motion in its new logo and promotional materials[1]. “Since its inception in 1982, MTV has always stood for moving, whether your body in dance or to moving to improve your wold, and of course music videos made up of pictures at fast speeds” a press release stated, “and MTV’s new image will both help it adapt to these changing times and help make all that clear, reflecting what we stand for.” Insider reports indicate a focus more on scripted content including animated series, and most crucially will mandate musical episodes per ordered season, to retain a focus on the music side.

In the months after the VMAs at the end of the year, the network aired several bumpers that kicked off their latest ad campaign, "Move into the Millennium". The first commercial was a montage of dance, music, and counterculture throughout the 20th century playing in a futuristic museum before VJ Carson Daly and Trevor Horn (who was the first singer on MTV in Video Killed the Radio Star) would introduce us to a glowing portal representing the year 2000 and the third millennium. After that on New Years Day, the network officially kicked off the period with a short animated film about an archaeological dig uncovering a giant MTV logo in disrepair, and restoring to its glory, only replacing “music” at the bottom of its pedestal with “motion”.
motion.png

Mockup by Plateosaurus

Some have welcomed the rebranding as allowing for more flexibility in regards to what content it airs without being made fun of by plaudits or seem to undergo further network decay as heavily, as motion can refer to social movements, dancing, or motion pictures. Others are much less positive to it, saying its making the next milestone for MTV's downward spiral away from their original roots in favour of mindless pandering to the lowest common denominator as WB seems to focus less and less on it, effectively nothing more then a cost-cutting survival mechanism. Some have even noted the focus on scripted content (such as animated works and drama) could backfire, making it fail to stand out in the already crowded world of cable television, which seems to be trending away from specialty channels as a whole in lieu of more broad focuses for wider audiences.

Continued on next page 34[2]

[1] It will still be registered as Music Television, however, usually in behind the scenes and legal stuff and the public isn’t meant to see.
[2] Eventually, MTV will rename itself to Moveit in 2005 entirely. Originally it's gonna be Motion like the last five years promoted, but (just like @MNM041 did), its pointed out this would make it feel like an outdoor network that appeals to Baby Boomers and earliest Gen Xers as opposed to the golden teenage/young adult demographics they want. It’s changed to a portemanteau because the marketing department thinks it will sound cool (it isn’t).

Just something small for Monday I had on my mind for a while.
 
[4] It won’t have the same effects Blair Witch Project had in OTL, as its marketing doesn’t try to pretend its real for the most part. This will mean the online horror community of the 2000’s and creepypastas will look very different ITTL (indeed, the term Creepypasta will not even exist, being coined in 2007 IOTL on a site liable to be butterflied)
Aw, I had Ideas for Blair Witch.
 
What were your ideas? I'd think I can reuse them.
It was mostly to introduce the fictional character of the young director Henry Phipps Jr. His influence would have more directly Lovecraftian influences on Blair Witch, including the Witch being implied to be a part of the cult of Shub-Niggurath.
 
It was mostly to introduce the fictional character of the young director Henry Phipps Jr. His influence would have more directly Lovecraftian influences on Blair Witch, including the Witch being implied to be a part of the cult of Shub-Niggurath.
Geekhis and the rest of the writers are refraining from fictional people at this point.
 
I'm aware that WDR is mostly old news at this point - however, it was great working on it with @Plateosaurus... a couple of things.

The swimming theropod in the final episode was called a “stokesosaur” at the time, was based on a skeleton found in Kimmeridge Clay in 1984 that, whilst then undescribed, we now know as Juratyrant.

This is true OTL - the Juratyrant specimen was discovered in 1984 and would have been known to palaeontologists working on the Kimmeridge fauna at the time (the thinking was that it was a species of Stokesosaurus... although it wasn't formally described until 2008, as a species of Stokesosaurus - and renamed Juratyrant five years later). There was some debate as to whetherJuratyrant would be named as per OTL... however, in my view, the science-related butterflies should be kept to a minimum, simply because it's easier.

While Attenborough himself was initially asked to narrate Where Dinosaurs Roam as part of the authentic nature doc angle, he, whilst being fascinated by the premise, apologetically turned it down.
This is - allegedly - true OTL - however, it's unclear why he turned it down. Whilst it's said he was uncomfortable with the whole "faux-u-mentary" thign, my personal guess would be that he simply didn't have time.

The episode would also gain infamy for the same CG models of its marine creatures being reused in DC’s Aquaman (also being done at Framestore) a year later as a budget-saving measure. Mike Milne, CGI director at Framestore, recalled in an interview, “Aquaman was being rendered down the hall, and the team who were working on that asked permission to use the marine reptile models for Where Dinosaurs Roam, only reskinned - partly to save money and partly because Antony Hicox really wanted the marine reptiles to look accurate - and Where Dinosaurs Roam already had those effects. Of course, Aquaman - and the Oscar we won for it - was our big break.” Milne would dryly go on to note that many DC fan sites get it the wrong way round - the models weren’t created for Aquaman (of course, I like both, personally).

Britain’s giant-clawed Baryonyx (which would, a mere two years later, ascend to further infamy as the main antagonist of the third Jurassic Park movie),

More on these to come...
 
Geekhis and the rest of the writers are refraining from fictional people at this point.
Oh, I'd thought it'd be okay, given the other fictional characters, but it's understandable. I did have some pretty cool ideas about Phipps' directorial career, including an adaptation of The King in Yellow (the fictional play) and a bizarre Lovecraftian dramedy.
 
Oh, I'd thought it'd be okay, given the other fictional characters, but it's understandable. I did have some pretty cool ideas about Phipps' directorial career, including an adaptation of The King in Yellow (the fictional play) and a bizarre Lovecraftian dramedy.

My suggestion would be find an obscure horror director OTL and make some of those projects his "big breaks".

For Blair Witch, I would also say that, in addition, the whole reason Blair Witch was made OTL was that the guys who made it realised that they found documentaries on paranormal phenomena scarier than traditional horror films, deciding to create a horror film framed as a paranormal documentary. Having explicit/implicit/what-have-you allusions to a quite well-known horror mythos in the film... would kind of clash with the idea that this "really" happened.

(I would argue that, ITTL, Transmission 13 does much the same thing)
 
Oh, I'd thought it'd be okay, given the other fictional characters, but it's understandable. I did have some pretty cool ideas about Phipps' directorial career, including an adaptation of The King in Yellow (the fictional play) and a bizarre Lovecraftian dramedy.
Honestly, maybe he could be in the 2010's, and he could be born in the 90's/late 80's.
 
Honestly, maybe he could be in the 2010's, and he could be born in the 90's/late 80s
That makes perfect sense! Phipps is definitely a fan of the gothic 90s, so him growing up during that period fits thematically. Maybe he could ride the wave of 90s nostalgia per the twenty-year cycle?
 
That makes perfect sense! Phipps is definitely a fan of the gothic 90s, so him growing up during that period fits thematically. Maybe he could ride the wave of 90s nostalgia per the twenty-year cycle?
I have a couple of suggestions for what you could do with him, but to avoid spamming the thread, I'll make a PM conversation.
 
Evil is Resident Here...
George Romero's Resident Evil (2000), A Retrospective

Guest Post by @MNM041 with executive assistance from Mr. Harris Syed and @Plateosaurus
From Swords and Spaceships Magazine, January 2010
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In 1996, Capcom released Resident Evil, which breathed new life into the survival horror video game genre. Because of the game's massive success, a film adaptation seemed inevitable, especially with the joint successes of 1993's Super Mario Bros and 1995's Mortal Kombat. Wanting to capitalize on the growing market for movie adaptations of popular video games, Capcom went straight to the granddaddy of the zombie movie genre: George A. Romero[1].

Romero's last directing gig was in 1989, with the Smart Slasher movie Final Girl[2], with most of his other projects at the time having been films he produced, such as Mel Brooks's Carmilla and Tom Savini's Dad of the Dead (which of course featured Robert Englund playing a fictionalized version of Romero)[3]. He was no stranger to the Resident Evil franchise, having directed Japanese commercials for the second game. Romero naturally accepted the offer to direct Resident Evil and even watched someone play through the first game while he took notes. The first thing Romero knew would have to be fixed was the infamously atrocious dialogue within the first game. After working on the screenplay with Peter Grunwald, John Romero (no relation), and John Carmac, Romero submitted a script to Capcom that adapted the first game, which would be accepted, and later sold to Triad Entertainment with him attached to direct.

Val Kilmer would be considered for multiple roles during casting, ultimately being cast as the villainous Albert Wesker. Romero wanted the character to be less obviously evil than the game, giving Wesker a faux-affable persona that Kilmer played wonderfully. One of the more surprising picks ended up being Nicholas Brendon, who auditioned for the part of Chris Redfield in the hopes of preventing himself from being typecast as dorky side characters such as Newt Pulsifer from Good Omens or Xander Jones from Final Girl: The Series, a character considered by some to be the worst aspect of that show. However, he would win the studio and Romero over partly due to an impressive physical transformation that Brendon would claim helped him kick his drinking habits[4].

For the other prominent roles, Amy Jo Johnson would be cast as Jill Valentine due to her willingness to do her stunts, aided by Johnson's own background in gymnastics. Reportedly, Kilmer jokingly told Brendon during filming, "This lady could kick both our asses." Comedian and actor Neil Flynn ended up being cast as Barry Burton, who ended up somewhat serving as comic relief given that in the game, Barry ended up being the one with the funniest lines (the only difference is that in the film, his lines were meant to be funny). Lastly, Danielle Harris would end up being cast as Rebecca Chambers, which would become one of her first significant roles after she became an adult[5].

The remaining actors who rounded out the cast included Steve Buscemi as the cowardly Brad "Chickenheart" Vickers, Guillermo Diaz as Richard Alvarez (due to the original character having a Mexican accent), and Bill Mosley as Enrico Marini. Additionally, Michael Clarke Duncan would play the T-002/Tyrant basing his portrayal on the Hulk from the 1994 film The Incredible Hulk.

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Film concept art of Chris, Rebecca, Jill, Wesker and Barry (image sources “r/residentevil”, “residentevil.fandom.com” and “giantbomb.com”)

The cast all fully committed to their roles, playing through the game to a sense of the story and giving feedback on how their characters would act. Additionally, Romero would include multiple references to his previous works, especially the Living Dead movies, which made him famous in the first place (most notably a cameo appearance by Ken Foree when the main characters are being debriefed in the situation). He was also given a look at the plans for the Resident Evil games further down the line, including the prequel game Resident Evil Zero, which the movie includes references to (even including an appearance by Billy Coen, who in the film is played by Noah Wyle).

Aside from the cast, the film's soundtrack also took heavy priority, consisting mainly of rock music, featuring songs by Alice Cooper, The Misfits (both eras), Rob Zombie, Black Sabbath, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Nine Inch Nails, and Nirvana. The songs in question were dark, moody, suspenseful, and mysterious, befitting the film’s Night of the Living Dead-inspired tone. In addition, Romero would bring on the legendary Tom Savini and David LeRoy Anderson for makeup, while Douglas Trumbull was brought on for the set design. In the effects department, Romero used a mixture of special and practical effects for the zombies, gunfire and explosions with military vehicles lent to the production by the US military who served as consultants for the film as well as a few members of the Pennsylvania National Guard, whom Romero met while making Dawn of the Dead. Other notable horror heavyweights, such as the Mustafa Akkad of the Halloween franchise, were also brought on to work on the film. For horror fans, Resident Evil was a dream come true, and fans of the franchise generally loved Romero for faithfully recreating the atmosphere and cinematography of the games.

Romero had pitched the idea to studios as Mission: Impossible meets Night of the Living Dead. A special ops team is sent to uncover a strange occurrence at a seemingly abandoned house and must survive an onslaught of the dead. When Triad and 20th Century Studios picked up the rights to Resident Evil, they allowed Romero to have as much creative freedom as possible. So naturally, Romero would go all out with that freedom, constructing a full-sized recreation of the Spencer Mansion from the first game, complete with a working elevator, as well as hiring a large number of zombie extras to both play the undead hordes roaming the mansion, and for the carnage of the opening scene. According to George Romero, the number of zombie extras in Resident Evil reportedly doubled in 1985’s Day of the Dead.

The film begins with a news report on a series of bizarre murders on July 24, 2000, on the outskirts of the fictional Midwestern metropolis of Raccoon City. Baffled by these killings' strange, sporadic nature, Raccoon City Police Department's S.T.A.R.S. team was assigned to investigate who or what was behind these incidents. After contact with Bravo Team is lost, Alpha Team is sent to investigate their disappearance. Alpha Team locates Bravo Team's crashed helicopter and lands at the site, where a pack of monstrous dogs suddenly attacks them. After Alpha Team's helicopter pilot, Brad Vickers, panics and takes off alone, the remaining members of the team — Chris Redfield, Jill Valentine, Albert Wesker, and Barry Burton — are forced to seek refuge in a nearby abandoned mansion. The team is separated and forced to investigate the manor for their missing teammates.

—-------
(REDFIELD is walking with VALENTINE in a section of the mansion)

REDFIELD: So not only has that the pilot completely abandoned us, we're basically on our own in trying to solve this mess.

VALENTINE: When this is over, remind me to put in a transfer. I feel like we just got stuck in a bad horror movie.

REDFIELD: Who's bright idea was to have the guy with the nickname "Chickenheart" man the chopper anyway?
—--------

Alpha Team would continue to explore the mansion hoping to find answers. Along the way, they encounter dangerous creatures roaming its halls. The team eventually learns that a series of illegal experiments were being undertaken by a clandestine research team under the supervision of the biomedical company Umbrella Corporation. The creatures roaming the mansion and its surrounding areas are the results of these experiments, exposing the mansion's personnel and various animals and insects to a highly contagious and mutagenic biological agent known as the T-virus. Throughout all this, the main characters also encounter several members of the Bravo Team, including Enrico Marini, who reveals that one of the Alpha Team's members is a traitor before being shot and killed by an unseen assailant.

-----------
(BURTON looks around the dark corridor, gun drawn, looking for the assailant)

BURTON: Who fired? WHO FIRED?

(BURTON is then struck from behind and knocked out. WESKER emerges from the shadows.)

WESKER: It's a shame, Barry; I always kinda liked you guys.
------------

The only surviving member of the Bravo Team is Rebecca Chambers, a rookie who is found in an isolated room by Redfield and Wesker. The two men ask Chambers about what happened and how she got into the room. She explains that she was trying to hide from something and was sealed inside for her protection. Wesker asks Chambers what this "something" was, but she refuses to say who or what was trying to kill her. Redfield tells Wesker that he will join up with his sister soon and rushes to find her, unaware he has ulterior motives.

Eventually, Chris and Jill discover a secret underground laboratory containing Umbrella's experiments. In the lab, they find that Wesker is a double agent working for Umbrella and plans to use the Tyrant, a giant humanoid supersoldier, to kill the remaining S.T.A.R.S. members. However, Wesker is supposedly killed in the ensuing confrontation, and Chris and Jill defeat the Tyrant. Then, after activating the lab's self-destruct system, they reach the heliport and manage to contact Brad for extraction. At this point, they are confronted by Tyrant one last time and defeat it again, saving Barry and Rebecca in the process.

The movie ends with the main cast limping out of the burning manor just as the sun is beginning to rise. Chris and Jill kiss as the helicopter begins to descend for pickup. Chris’ sister Claire Redfield (played by Brittany Murphy) makes a brief cameo over a phone call to set up a sequel at the movie's end.

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Concept art of the T-2000/Tyrant (Image source “imgur.com”)

Among the few changes from the games we get, some of the more notable ones are that we spend time with the main characters before they get to the mansion, giving them time to interact with each other. In addition, Romero included a romantic subplot between Chris and Jill, which added more to their dynamic. Finally, many fans felt Wesker's betrayal was given more weight by showing him as a trusted teammate and friend to the others.

-----------
(CHRIS and JILL both have their guns trained on WESKER. He seems unusually calm as he turns around with his hands raised.)

CHRIS: How long have you been manipulating us?

WESKER (rolls his eyes): Oh, so dramatic. You know this is nothing personal.

JILL: We trusted you, you asshole!

(WESKER quickly moves towards JILL and pins her against the wall.)

WESKER: Now, now, that's just impolite.

(CHRIS points his gun square at WESKER'S head.)

CHRIS: I swear to God, Wesker, if you don't put her down, I will rip you to pieces.

WESKER: Ya know, I always thought you had a little thing for her, Chrissy, but I've got a little surprise if you go through with that plan. See, this building has a bunch of explosives rigged up to my heart rate. So if it stops, we're all going up in smoke[6].
-----------

Aside from Claire’s brief cameo, Romero also name-dropped Leon Kennedy as set up for a potential sequel. This would prove to be the right call, as Resident Evil would become the highest-grossing horror movie of that year, making $137 million worldwide on a budget of $39 million. Critics would also praise the film, citing the phenomenal chemistry between the lead performers and the eerie and suspenseful atmosphere evocative of Romero's earlier zombie classics.

George Romero is primarily credited for this success, running a tight ship and ensuring he captured what made people love the games. Val Kilmer even went as far as to say that Romero was among his favorite directors to have worked with.

With the success of the first film, Brittany Murphy would go on to star in Resident Evil 2 soon after, with then-unknown New Zealander actor Antony Starr joining as Leon Kennedy[7] and Thuy Trang, who had previously played Kitana in the Mortal Kombat movies, as Ada Wong (who was made half-Vietnamese at her actress' request), with Romero, of course, returning to direct every subsequent installment. Some of the main cast would also be given roles in the following games. Romero's Resident Evil series is often credited, along with Ted Raimi's Doom, is often credited with starting a mini-boom in similar adaptations of horror games, such as John Carpenter's Silent Hill movies, Wes Craven's Alone In The Dark, or James Wan’s Oni.


- - - -
[1] Romero did pen a script for a Resident Evil movie with Peter Grunwald that was passed in favor of the Milla Jovovich star vehicle by Paul W.S. Anderson. That movie won’t exist, and Romero will get to make Resident Evil. As for Anderson, he’ll make more action and sci-fi movies with varying reception and box office numbers as he did with El C.I.D. and Shopping in his native UK.
[2] Brendon had already booked a fairly prominent part in Final Girl: The Series as Xander in 1993, meaning he never took a three-year hiatus from acting and later got more roles. The fact that he and Romero worked together previously also helps with auditions.
[2] Dad of the Dead and Carmilla were covered in Vampires, Zombies and Filmmakers…Oh, My! post, if you recall.
[4] Here, since Nicholas Brendon has a better career, it's more likely he'll be able to get help for his various problems and his life won't turn into the depressing saga that it has much like Jake Lloyd after Good Omens and especially The Sixth Sense.
[5] Danielle Harris also gets a better career out of this and finds more work outside of the Halloween franchise.
[6] This was an actual plot point in the Romero script.
[7] Yes, the same Antony Starr who would be best remembered as John/Homelander from Amazon Prime Video’s The Boys. Bare in mind that Romero had a knack for finding lesser-known actors and Starr will be approached by a talent scout to audition.
 
So remember the X-Men: Mutant High and 1999 Spider-Man show's I mentioned in my Excelsior! - A Retrospective of the late 80’s/early 90’s X-Men and Spider-Man Series guest post? Well here at long last is the very long follow up to that:

---

New Millennium Heroes! - A Retrospective of X-Men: Mutant High and the 1999 Spider-Man Animated Series
Post from Nostalgia Zone Net-log, by Terry Vera. September 22nd, 2015.


So a few months back I did a retrospective on the heavily influential and legendary late 80’s/early 90’s X-Men and Spider-Man animated series which both debuted in the late 80’s and lasted well into the mid 90’s. If you haven’t seen it there’s a link here, but I thought it was about time I went over the two animated series based primarily on the same respective characters which followed in their wake, 1999’s Spider-Man and 2000’s X-Men: Mutant High.

Now the thing about both shows is unlike with their predecessors, I never actually watched them as they were coming out. I was in High School by this point and as much as Marvel and comics were becoming more mainstream and ‘cool’, I was going through a bit of a weird phase where I thought I just wasn’t interested in watching animated Saturday morning cartoons. While I did eventually watch both shows, it ultimately wasn’t until the mid-2000’s when both shows had finished their runs and I was in college that I finally took the time to give them a try.

What did I think when I finally saw them? Well I can honestly say I came to regret not giving X-Men: Mutant High a chance earlier. As for Spider-Man? Well I’ll go into that in a bit, but first here’s some context surrounding the creation of both shows.


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An ITTL after effect of the rising Marvel Cinematic Universe in the late 90’s is that Marvel Comics started getting a huge boost in sales as the movies helped draw in new fans. Naturally Marvel TV execs wanted to tape into that for two of their main lines whose cartoons ended right before this new boost. (Source: TFW2005)


In late 1998, the Marvel Movie Universe was getting into full swing with the Avengers only a mere two years away from lighting up our theater screens. Comic sales meanwhile were reaching a bit of a high point as interest from the films and animated shows drew in more new readers every day. Of said shows, the original 90’s MCAU was on its last legs as the Avengers and Thor were currently airing what would be their final seasons, while the original Fantastic Four, X-Men and Spider-Man animated series had all finished their respective runs on TV, with the latter two have finished their runs before Marvel had reached this new high.

Though both shows had seen a preview boost in sales from their films, it was noted that the hype for the upcoming Avengers movie combined with the popularity of the animated series was drawing in a unprecedented number of new sales for Avengers comics and the respective main characters featured in a primary roles in the show, like Captain America and Iron Man. For Spider-Man and the X-Men however, both their animated shows had ended a few years before and the previous increase in sales had since begun to drop or weren’t rising as high, though X-Men would see some boosts following the release of each film. It was perhaps worse for Spider-Man, as even ignoring the current issues driving down sales in his comic at the time and the fact he would appear in then upcoming Avengers film, his last mainline starring role in a film was in 1995 and he wouldn’t return again to star in his own film until 2004.

So as you might expect, Marvel became interested in bringing back Spider-Man and the X-Men to the small screen in the hopes it’d help boost comic sales. While Spidey and the mutants had appeared in supporting roles in the Avengers show, Marvel wanted to expand the recent sales boost created by the films and shows for Spider-Man and X-Men by ordering new shows centered on both to be made. Makes sense right?

Well there were two points of issue that Marvel had to figure out, that being continuity and well Spider-Man himself.


peter-parker-the-spectacular-spider-man-1976-226.jpg

One repercussion of there being a smoother and less chaotic ITTL 90’s Clone Saga that didn’t fail ITTL like it did in OTL is that Marvel was now forced to handle a weird situation it never had to in OTL: How to adapt Spider-Man in animation while still trying to boost sales when in said comics the more popular well known person known to the public behind the mask (whom let's not forget the most recent films were also about) is now retired and his replacement has a bit of a convoluted and complicated backstory that might turn new fans away. (Source: TVTropes.com)


The first was a fairly simple decision all things considered: Should Marvel try to fit both shows in the 90’s MCAU and make the shows continuations of the previous shows or should they start fresh in a new continuity? And if they did start in a new continuity, should both shows be set in the same continuity, or separate ones? Ultimately Marvel decided it’d be less of a hassle to try and start fresh then to continue where both previous shows left off. In terms of continuity they also decided to have 1999’s Spider-Man and X-Men: Mutant High to be set in two separate continuities and not have to worry about potentially contradicting each other as had been a frequent concern with the earlier animated shows. While the wider Marvel universe would exist and be mentioned or even shown in both shows, it wouldn’t be until 2009 that Marvel Animation would again attempt a single unified animated continuity, but I’ll get to that one day.

Unlike the relatively simple issue with continuity though, deciding how to handle Spider-Man would be much more complicated. See in 1998, Marvel’s current main Spider-Man was not Peter Parker, rather it was instead his clone Ben Reilly. Peter Parker at this time was basically “retired” for the most part, and wouldn’t officially come out of retirement for another three years. Instead the retired Peter was busy raising his first child Ben Parker alongside his wife Mary Jane Watson while also working as an assistant to Reed Richards. Whenever Peter did put the suit back on, it more often than not was to help the F4 as the unofficial fifth member of the Fantastic Four, leading to the team in this era to often be lovingly referred to by fans at this point as the Fantastic Five [1].

This naturally led to the question of whether Marvel should make the show about Ben Reilly or Peter Parker, since at the end of the day the show was meant to help further boost the sales of the comic, especially since of all the comics at the time Spider-Man was the one receiving the smallest boost. As you can imagine, making a show about Peter Parker when he wasn’t even Spider-Man at this point in the comics seemed a bit contradictory to this, which left Marvel in a bind.


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Though not actually a member of the team, this era of Peter’s life ITTL would eventually often be referred to by fans as his Fantastic Five era, having ironically all but finally joined the team after decades following their first meeting in Amazing Spider-Man #1. (Source: Fandom.com)


On one hand, Peter Parker was considered the safe choice for the central character. Not only was he the more familiar Spider-Man to general audiences thanks to his previous three live action films and the original 90’s cartoon, but (at least to execs and some readers) he, unlike Ben Reilly, also didn’t have a complicated clone origin attached that viewers would need to accept and wrap their heads around if they wanted to watch the show. Ben Reilly on the other hand had a more complicated backstory but was the main Spider-Man, which meant the show’s mission to promote the comic meant they should be trying to focus on him rather than Peter.

This therefore led to a bit of a behind the scenes battle, with some prominent Marvel and Disney TV execs really wanting the show to be about Peter Parker, while Marvel Comics Editorial (who had a few influential ties of their own to some Disney and Marvel execs and used them to involve themselves with the show) strongly wanted it to be about Ben Reilly, with some even arguing that Ben, unlike Peter, outright needed the show. They arguably weren’t even wrong to think so, since despite Marvel Editorial’s stubborn support of Ben Reilly over Peter Parker at the time [2], sales for Spider-Man comics had indeed stagnated and weren’t exactly doing as great or at least as many new readers compared to other Marvel comics since Ben Reilly had fully taken over as Spider-Man.

In fact it was even noted by some detractors of Ben Reilly that 1995's Spider-Man 3 had not resulted in nearly as big of a sales boost as the first and second film had, in likely no small part due to the fact that by the release of Spider-Man 3 Ben Reilly had already seemingly permanently taken over the role of Spider-Man and Peter had retired. Simply put, far too many new comics readers seemed to get confused about Ben’s presence and the clone origin [3] or didn’t like the fact the comic didn’t star Peter (which still remained an issue even despite Ben’s growing fanbase) and despite this Marvel Editorial had no intention at this time of bringing back Peter officially despite some increasing pressure to do so.

And none of this was even getting into the fact that the original highly celebrated Spider-Man: The Animated Series cartoon would no doubt cast a long shadow on this new upcoming successor show, so a lot of people at Marvel Entertainment wanted to distance themselves from it and make something distinct from the previous show, so the shows creators (Duane Capizzi and Patrick Archibald) also had to factor in the fact that later half of the last season of the early 90’s cartoon had already adapted the Clone Saga, nor that while the whole behind the scenes battle between Marvel TV execs and Comic Editorial was going on upper Disney management was currently distracted by a massive proxy war with right wing crazies and religious nuts.

The end result of all of this messy behind the scenes, which would notably continue a bit on throughout the shows run even after it’s premiere (though not nearly as openly since by the show’s premier in 1999 Disney upper management was no longer distracted by the whole proxy war), is that the showrunners decided to just split the difference and centered the show on both Peter and Ben by having both share the title of Spider-Man rather than have Peter retire, even opening the show [4] with yet another direct adaptation of the 90’s Clone Saga (meaning if you watched this and the previous show back to back, you’d be treated to essentially watching two consecutive adaptations of the exact same six month storyline).


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The messy battle to decide who to center the show on would go on to dominate the behind the scenes for the 1999 Spider-Man animated series, leading to the show to try and center itself on both. (Source: benreillytribute.x10host.com)


While the show’s dual protagonist nature was interesting in my opinion, in my view the show as a whole ultimately suffers a bit from a sense of listlessness as it struggles to both define itself and escape the shadow of its predecessor. It honestly just feels like the team behind it weren’t sure what to do half the time and often weren’t sure who (between Ben and Peter) to even focus on. A lot of that was certainly due to the ongoing behind the scenes drama and Duane Capizzi leaving after the first season, but another was clearly a sense of fear of being unable to match the award winning and critically acclaimed beloved show which came before it. Not helping things was the way the show decides all too often to just keep going back and adding even more Clone Saga-type shenanigans even after the conclusion of the first opening episodes, leading to it often being nicknamed by fan as Spider-Man: The Clone Saga Animated Series as a way of differentiating it from it's predecessor when it's not simply called the 1999 cartoon.

In fact not only do they make Jackal the main villain of the first season, but they keep adding additional new clone characters other than Ben and Kaine, to the point that the show just makes you honestly all cloned out and tired of clones in general. Marvel certainly got cloned out too, since clones got really uncommon in comics for a few years after the end of the first season. Don't get me wrong, sure some of the new clones created for the show like the Spider-Woman [5], Armsy [6], Spider Gwen Stacy [7] and the Spider MJ clones that show up in a few episodes are all actually kind of interesting and well written (even if the concept behind them are kind of simple and cliché), but if I’m being honest they’re more the exception than the rule. Instead most of thirteen new clones introduced in the show, like the kid clone from the 7th episode, the clone of Ben Reilly (not Peter) from the 9th episode, just overall all feel tacked on and lazy, ultimately feeling more like the showrunners just wanted to add more clones just for the sake of adding more clones.

Still there are plenty of things to like here despite the various problems the show has. Voice actor Rino Romano for example brings to the table a pretty well done take on wall crawler, even if he’s ultimately no Robert Hays (though to be fair, I don’t think any Spider-Man voice actor, except maybe Josh Keaton, has escaped Hays’ long shadow). In fact I’d go as far as to say that one thing he actually manages to improve over Hays is that he makes the effort and does a good job at making his voices for both Peter and Ben both distinct yet still similar enough to make it clear they are technically the same voice. Tom Kane meanwhile provides a memorable performance as the Jackel, while Jennifer Hale makes for a decent Mary Jane Watson, though like with Peter/Ben, one can’t help but compare her to OG 90’s cartoon MJ actress Joely Fisher.

Ultimately while the show has its core fans even to this day, it definitely struggled to keep most of its audience as it went along and ultimately only lasted two seasons before it got canned, something which I can’t say I’m all that surprised about having watched it. The main aftermath to note about the show’s relative failure and the behind the scenes spat that was going on during it between Marvel Editorial and Marvel TV Execs is that it barely did anything to increase sales of the main comic and in fact did a lot to weaken the strength of the pro-Ben Reilly faction at Marvel Editorial to the point that Ben got killed off in 2001’s ‘The Death of Spider-Man’ comic [8] and Peter got brought back out of retirement during Tom Delfaco’s third run on Amazing Spider-Man later that year, where Peter would mentor Stanley O’Brian, a teenager who like Peter before him would find himself gaining incredible Spider-like powers when he’s bitten by a radioactive spider [9].

So in a way Marvel Editorial’s steadfast and stubborn pushing for Ben Reilly to be made the sole star of the show inadvertently led to his death in the comics, the very return of Peter Parker that Marvel Editorial had originally been against, and the introduction of fan favorite and new Marvel Editorial golden boy Stanley O’Brian. Go figure.


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While not really exact, there are definitely a number of similarities between OTL X-Men Evolution and ITTL’s X-Men: Mutant High where you can consider it it's OTL counterpart, although the argument can be made that it's also this timeline's equivalent of Young Justice despite being Marvel and not DC, due to being made by the same creators and having a similar kind of story telling. (Source: Wikipedia and GeekDad)


The good news is that for all the ongoing issues with 1999’s Spider-Man, the other new Marvel show which followed it, X-Men: Mutant High, would manage to escape any such needless drama when it premiered in early 2000, which thank god because this show is way too good and I honestly don’t know what I would have done if it got sabotaged by pointless behind the scenes drama. Then again if it had been ruined by BS, I probably wouldn’t be here wanting to gush and rave about it.

Though it would also find itself facing having big shoes to fill (although not nearly to the extreme as Spider-Man did), X-Men: Mutant High chose to try and escape the looming shadow of its predecessor by not adapting any particular X-Men comic or team and instead creating something new and holy original, focusing not on the classic X-Men but on the next generation of young mutants who were destined to succeed them. Instead of giving the spotlight to the well known X-Men, the show would instead focus on a group of six young new and original mutants created for the show who would find themselves attending Xavier’s School for the Gifted and gathered together in a new young team as the next generation of the X-Men [10]. Meanwhile traditional X-Men characters like Xavier, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Beast, Colossus, Shadowcat, Storm, and Jean Grey would be relegated to older mentor roles as the various professors of the school. While they were still recurring characters and there might be a episode or two where the OG characters got a bit of direct shine and attention, showrunners Greg Weisman, Craig Kyle, and Victor Cook pointedly kept the focus on the show's six primary protagonists. In fact, of the OG classic X-Men, only Wolverine (voiced by David Kaye) would find himself getting a really prominent role and even then only due to his familial connection and mentorship with one of the show’s main characters, Musume Oyama aka Weapon XIII [11].

I suppose that’s actually as good a jumping point as any to talk about the show’s main six protagonists, and there’s no better place to start than the aforementioned Weapon XIII (or as she’s later known in later seasons, Talon), who is voiced by Grey DeLisle. The tragic daughter of Wolverine and Lady Deathstrike, Masume was forcibly (although arguably only confirmed as such in the comics) conceived while both her parents were a part of the Weapon X program and grew up under the program that bred her where she was trained as little more than a weapon and assassin, at least until she escaped her handlers and sought out her father, leading to her enrollment at the school. Throughout the show the quiet and anti-social Masume is forced to learn how to be a human girl and not a weapon, growing over the course of the show’s seven seasons from a cold, emotionless former weapon to a thoughtful and caring girl, Masume would often find herself facing off against Weapon X and her own mother Lady Deathstrike throughout the shows run, as said mother sought to return her wayward daughter back to the Weapon X program she served.

Quickly becoming a fan favorite following her premiere in the show, Weapon XIII would also become the first original character from the show to make the transition from the small screen to the comics, debuting in the comics less than seven months following her debut on the show. While most if not all of her fellow teammates would follow her into pages of comics, Masume stands as the fastest to do so.


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Basically the ITTL of both of these OTL fan favorites, as Weapon XIII is basically X-23 but with an origin closer to that of OTL Cassandra Cain. (Source: fightersgeneration.com and DCDatabase.com)


Joining Masume as a main character on the show is her best friend, a character who technically both is and isn’t an original character: Rachel Summers aka Marvel Girl (voiced by Tara Strong). Now if you're a X-Men comics fan who’s lived under a rock and never watched the show you might start scratching your head here since Rachel Summers is very much not a original character that was invented for the show having debuted all the way back in 1981 as part of the famous Days of Future’s Past comic, and you’d technically be right to think so. The reason instead that I say that this Rachel is an original character is because though she shares the same name, powers, and parentage as her comics counterpart, she does not share her origin nor much of her comic personality.

Though her comic origin would be given a nod in Season 2’s Days of Future Past themed episode [12], this version of Rachel was not a time traveler from a war torn future where mutants were hunted like her comic counterpart. Instead this version of Rachel grew up in a peaceful life, if somewhat sheltered life by both her parents. Having grown up without having to deal with anti-Mutant racism due to her upbringing, Rachel starts the series as a bit of an arrogant spoiled brat but quickly finds herself forced to face the ugly truth of just how the world views mutants as she leaves her sheltered childhood and joins the school where she also finds herself facing the scrutiny of classmates due to being the daughter of two of the school’s leading professors. Over the course of the show she goes from being arrogant and stuck up mean girl to humble and very empathetic woman who cares for others and finds herself being a proud defender of Mutant Rights [13].

Oh and did I forget to mention that due to being the daughter of Jean Mother F-ing Grey she’s also destined to be the next host of the Phoenix Force and therefore the most powerful mutant ever, which becomes a bit of a major plot line for Season 4? No? Well now I did, so you're kindly welcome.

Anyways I’d say that overall this version of Rachel is pretty different enough from her comics counterpart that I would honestly equate them almost as being two separate and distinct characters. She’s also debatably the more interesting of the two, though that’s probably more a matter of personal opinion. Sadly she’s the only one of the main show’s team to technically not debut in the comics afterwards, though comics Rachel did start taking on a lot of personality quirks from show Rachel, particularly her friendship with Masume/Weapon XIII and her memorable ice cream obsession.

Whether Marvel will ever do more than that, I guess we’ll see, but with the show reaching its 15th anniversary this year, I doubt it. [14]


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The appearance of the show’s version of Rachel Summers would mostly resemble this image of her OTL comic counterpart. (Figurerealm.com)


Next is Matthew Lincoln aka Starforce (Voiced by Khary Payton), the leader of the young team of mutants. Just as Rachel stands in as the teams equivalent to Jean Grey/Marvel Girl and Masume stands in as its own Wolverine, Matthew stands in as the teams own equivalent to Cyclops, as not only is he the leader, but his light based powers are not too dissimilar from that of Cyclops own (although truthfully they arguably more resemble that of Cyclops brother Havok), as they allow him to store any light that comes into contact with him in his body, making his body almost like a battery, and then release that light energy in a devastating photonic attack [15].

While Starforce goes through less character development over the course of the show, with him already starting out as a charismatic and gifted leader who stands as the team's rock of stability. Instead where Matt’s development comes in is not through some massive character change, but instead that he has to learn how to actually gain experience and try to manage being a team leader. It's not just handed to him and he's suddenly a great leader, instead he has the potential of one but has to earn and grow into the role. Really the show does a great job of representing that just because someone has a natural talent for leadership, it does not mean they are instantly a leader or that they suddenly have the experience to do so.

Where the real juicy stuff with Matt’s character comes into the show is in how it deals with and demonstrates the struggle of a black kid who's already dealing with racism due to the color of his skin also has to deal with racism from being a mutant. If done badly that topic could honestly have sunk the show, but I think it does a great job at maturely handling the issue and providing good commentary on racism as a whole. In fact one of the episodes centered on Matt’s personal struggles with racism towards fellow blacks and mutants, “Sunkissed” from Season 2, even went on to be nominated for an Emmy.

While I can't say he's exactly my favorite of the team (Masume, Tempus, and Biokenis are my personal favorites), he still makes for a pretty cool and compelling character. Plus his romance with Tempus in later seasons is honestly adorable.


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Though not strictly the same, there would be a lot of similarities between the ITTL show and the OTL comic New X-Men: Academy X. (Source: Amazon.com)


Next there was Julian Vargas aka Biokenis (voiced by Dante Basco), the loud and bombastic biokinetic (hence the name) whose powers, though at first seemingly giving him nothing but a simple ability to heal others, quickly grow in scope as they are revealed to actually give him complete and total control and manipulation over any and all biological matter he comes into physical contact with [16].

In some ways representing the teams equivalent of Bobby Drake and Shadowcat due to being the youngest and the least mature, Julian ultimately goes through the darkest arc of the series when in season 3 it’s revealed that with his powers not only can he remove another’s mutant mutation, but he can also make anyone who’s not a mutant now suddenly a mutant, which can be transmitted worldwide when combined with his ability to affect bacteria in order to create any kind of plague or virus he desires. Over the course of season 3 Julian finds himself becoming the number one target of various mutants like Magneto and his Brotherhood as well as the various human factions who oppose mutantkind, as each wishes to either use his power to either make everyone mutants (in the case of Magneto, who I should mention is voiced here by Tom Kane), use him to end all mutants, or simply kill him to ensure he can no longer potentially do either, culminating in him eventually becoming orphaned when his home is attacked and his family is killed.

From then on Julian goes from the comic relief of the main cast to a much darker and more moody character, bitter and angry against the world. And while it ends up being the love and support of his team that helps to prevent him from falling off the metaphorical edge of the cliff and truly going down a darker path, we still end up paying witness to the devastating destruction Julian can cause if he ever snaps across multiple instances of the show. A prime example of this comes in late season 3 when a angry and vengeful Julian infects the entire town of human supremacists whose leaders killed his family with a painful mutation that not only makes them all mutants but deforms their appearances and leaves them all looking monstrous and inhuman, before leaving them all at the mercy of a group of oncoming Sentinels, an act which comes to haunt him and fill him with guilt throughout the rest of the show.

Yeah, for a supposed kids show, it surprisingly doesn’t hold itself back. This show can and does get very dark, despite being technically aimed at kids.

Anyways, even with the support of his friends, it’s not until season 5 when Julian encounters a future version of himself in Bio that our Julian finally starts trying to move away from the dark path he’s been marching himself towards over the past two seasons. Bio, a alternate future version of Julian who snapped and wiped out most of all life on Earth in his future with a deadly virus, becomes the central villain of the show’s 5th season when he travels back in time and decides to ‘fix’ everything by forcibly turning every human on Earth into mutants [17], leading to the team and Biokenis to have to undo it (even if it puts them at odds with Magneto who wants to defend what Bio has done) when it’s revealed that Bio’s fragile psyche caused him to mess up the virus and that all the new ‘mutants’ he created are cellularly degrading and dying.

Like I said, Julian is probably one of my favorites, as he goes through the darkest arc yet he still manages to come out of it a (mostly) good person, even starting to crack jokes again by the seventh season.


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While Biokenis is sort of this timeline’s equivalent of Elixir from OTL’s X-Men, as a character he and his powers end up coming more in line with Amy Dallon/Panacea from OTL’s Web serial Worm. (Source: Fandom.com and Pinterest)


Next is Cynthia Cartwheel aka Tempus (voiced by Venus Terzo), probably the most heroic (she's certainly the shortest) member of the team even if she arguably has the weakest power. Though her power allows her to control time by pausing, speeding, slowing down, or reversing it, she can only do so for a limit of up to 15 seconds for each and she can’t try going back or forward consecutively after use without becoming exhausted or blacking out. While she can and has temporarily broken that 15 second limit during times of extreme stress, even in one episode going back a whole day into the past and in another accidentally launching herself decades into the far future (leading to my favorite episode of the second season that gave us its own interpretation of Days of Futures Past), for most of the series she tends to be stuck with the small 15 second interval time limit to her powers.

Yet where she lacks in power she makes up for in motivation and pure heroism, being the first team member to decide to join the X-Men and serving as the team’s heart and soul, if not the Team Mom [18]. Of course she’s not perfect, and like a lot of the characters on the show she has her own flaws. In Tempus’ case it’s the fact that she can at times be a little too selfless and overbearing, which stems from the loss of her grandfather, a police captain who lost his life saving hundreds from a terrorist attack a few years before. It’s his heroism which ultimately inspires Cynthia to try and follow in his example and be the best inspirational hero she can be. Yet often this results in her both being willing to get involved and put herself in danger she sometimes can’t handle if she thinks someone else is in danger and needs help as well as often being overly concerned for her teammates and being willing to sacrifice herself for them due to fear of losing them.

Still it is something she eventually gets a handle over during the course of the series, as in later seasons she’s willing to trust her teammates to handle themselves and not being as self-sacrificing as in the beginning. Plus hey, despite being the weakest member of the team, you can’t say she isn’t a total badass considering she gets pretty skilled and eventually even manages to solo and take down freaking Magneto in the sixth season with nothing but her wits, her fists, and her short term control over time.

There's a reason I love this pint sized total badass.


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Basically an earlier version of X-Men character Tempus from OTL, although with a different real name, personality, and origin. (Fandom.com)


Finally completing out the original six members of the main cast is Jake Jackson aka Canvas (voiced by Quinton Flynn), a character whose powers allow him to temporarily bring up to five things at a time from any image he sees to life which he can fully command and control. An example of this is during his first scene when he takes a photo of a rampaging Juggernaut who’s trying to capture Jake under the orders of Magneto and then proceeds to bring to life two weaker copies of the Juggernaut himself to fight the original.

Now you’d rightfully think that’d make him really OP, especially with the fact that the copies he creates can have the same powers and memories as the original person at the moment the photo or painting was taken/made, but there are tons of interesting little limits to Jake’s power. Some of these include a time limit for how long a copy can exist in the real world before it begins to weaken and disintegrate (which will occur at a faster rate depending on how more powerful the original source is), a copies powers often being somewhat weaker than the original, a hard limit that lets him only create five copycats at once and makes him wait until one disintegrates before he can summon another, and a limit which makes copies of objects more stable and long lasting than copies of people, particularly mutants. A result of that last means he more often tends to create copies of really powerful objects like Thor’s Hammer (which lacks the worthy limit of the original but otherwise gives him the same power of Thor while using it), Captain America’s Shield, Doctor Strange's cloak, or even a fictional plasma gun from a video game he likes playing, since he ultimately has less reason to worry about them quickly disintegrating at an inopportune moment.

Jake of course isn’t a perfect character despite his arguably OP power. In fact, as much as this sarcastic and witty kid did start to grow on me over the course of the show, he nonetheless starts off as a very unlikable and rude brat, not helped by the fact he can and has caused drama due to abusing his powers. In one season 1 episode he gets rejected by a pretty girl while visiting the town near the school and has the bright idea of stealing a photograph of her to create a copy of her that will date him, which if you’ll remember the fact that he has complete and total control over all his copies and that they have the memories of the original makes this honestly pretty creepy and disgusting (especially with some of the implications the show eventually makes about the copies behind sentient/aware living beings), even if you excuse it due to Jakes being so young (he’s barely fifteen in the first season). Thankfully the show and it’s other character agree with me at it being creepy and disgusting since it makes a huge point to show how wrong and vile Jake was for doing that, but that ultimately is just an example of how terrifying Jake’s power is and how willing he is to abuse it.

And sadly it’s not the last and only time he will abuse it. When his mom dies in a car accident in season 3, he keeps trying to bring her back as a copy and tries to hide the fact from his team, thereby nearly getting them hurt in a battle because he didn’t tell them he was using one of his copy slots and could only create four copies rather than his usual five. When the anti-mutant Senator Kelly seems poised to get a worrisome piece of Anti-Mutant legislation passed in the 4th season that the rest of the X-Men are trying to peacefully and legally prevent getting past, Jake has no issue going on his own to betray the teaching of Xavier and the professors as well as the rules of law by creating a copy of Emma Frost to change the memories of four senators allied with Kelly while creating and marching four impersonating copies of those very same senators to ‘turn’ on Kelly and vote down the bill.


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If you've ever watched something like Chalkzone, you'd think being able to bring anything from an image, whether fictional or real, to life as a power seems pretty tame, but now imagine having complete control over them and the people or objects being brought to life having the same powers and memories as the original, and put it in the hands of a completely irresponsible teenager. Not so tame now is it? (Source: Pinterest)


And while he does improve over the show, even choosing in season six to only create copies of people who approve being copied beforehand, his is definitely one of the most terrifying and most easy to abuse powers in X-Men and they are ultimately in the hands of a person who very frequently demonstrates over the course of the show that isn’t entirely responsible with them. Let’s just be thankful that he never went villain, at least not in the show (yes readers, I’ve read the recent issue of Uncanny X-Men and yes Canvas going bad is definitely terrifying [19].)

Still I can’t deny that some of my favorite episodes from the show have involved Jake’s powers or been caused by them.

One great example of this is season four’s, Dark Phoenix Reborn, which involves the one and only time Jake ever manages to actually break the limit on his power and create a permanent copy of a person that doesn’t disintegrate or affect his number limit. For those who haven’t watched the episode, basically during a fight with Emma Frost and her students (I’ll get more into that in a moment) he creates a copy of a eighteen year old Jean Grey from when (at least in the timeline of the show, since she was probably much older in the original comic at that point) she was Dark Phoenix, only for her to then not to disintegrate as normal after a certain time, even when he loses his control over her and regains his fifth copy slot. Long story short, the X-Men realize the Phoenix Force intervened to save the copy of its favorite host, they have to fight her, and we get treated to an awesome battle between a Phoenixed up Jean Grey and Rachel Summers against the Dark Phoenix and defeat it. Not a super complicated episode, but definitely a cool and fun one, especially since it ends up giving us the show’s version, and what is arguably my own favorite version, of Madelyne Pryor [20].

As for the aforementioned Emma Frost thing, in the the show’s second season they decided to introduce and adapt the Generation X storyline from the comics, which in case you might have forgotten basically involved a rival mutant school that was headed by X-Men nemesis Emma Frost (voiced by Erica Schroeder). Naturally it had its students who served as rivals to our heroes, with the most prominent and recurring being Chamber, the M-Twins, and Synch. Eventually the school would be attacked by human supremacists in opening of Season Six, resulting in most of what’s left of the school either merging with the Xavier institute or joining Magneto, thus forcing our heroes to have to get used to the idea of not only having former enemy Emma Frost as a teacher but being classmates with the kids they were rivals with and once fought against. That season as a whole does a good job at showcasing former enemies and rivals being forced to get used to the idea of no longer being on opposing sides and having to come to accept each other and work together for the common good.


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1994's Generation X comic still comes into existence ITTL just like it did in OTL, leading to it getting adapted in the show as a recurring rival mutant school who often come into conflict with our heroes. (Source: TVTropes)


Honestly there’s a whole lot more about the show I can gush about, like how it introduced a lot of fan favorite characters like Pixie, Surge, Prodigy [21], Hunter, Freight Train, and Weapon XIV [22] who would over time gain prominent roles in the show and also see themselves make the transition to the comics, the show’s outstanding third, fourth, and fifth seasons (all the seasons are great, but those three are really when the show reached its height), or how it did a fantastic jobs of dealing with a lot of the themes of the original comics like overcoming and peacefully fighting discrimination and still also balanced in everyday normal regular teenage problems and issues like relationships, school, and puberty, or how it went on to define and influence the course of X-Men comics for years after more than even the 90's cartoon did. But honestly if I did we’d be here all day if I did and this post is getting way too long, so all I’m going to say is that I’m really glad I finally went back and watched this masterpiece when I did and if you haven’t watched it you really need to give it a shot, even if you aren't an X-Man fan.

Anyways, next time I’ll be talking about Marvel's second attempt at doing a Spider-Man show following the end of the classic 90’s animated series when I discuss 2002’s Spider-Man Unlimited.



[1] - Not surprising perhaps since while Peter isn’t really officially a member of the team, he joins in their adventures often enough that he’s all but a fifth member.

[2] - This is sort of tying into the attitude of Marvel Editorial that in OTL lead to the infamous and justifiably hated One More Day comic where Peter Parker and Mary Jane sold their marriage to the devil to save a dying Aunt May. Essentially a number of people at Marvel Editorial don’t like Peter and MJ’s marriage and don’t want to have to deal with it, hence why a lot of Marvel Editorial is rallying so much around Ben Reilly here ITTL. Basically Ben being the main Spider-Man lets Marvel have its cake and eat it too as they get to retire Peter without undoing his marriage and give him his happy ending, while at the same time telling all the stories they want with a single Ben Reilly. The fear of bringing Peter officially back is that it’ll undo all that and open the can of worms they just shut on whether or not to end the marriage like they eventually did in OTL, while also disrupting Peter’s happy ending.

[3] - Let's be fair, Ben’s origin is a lot more convoluted for a new reader than Peter’s relatively simple origin is, meaning new readers need to understand or know about both the 70’s and 90’s Clone Saga just to understand Ben and his origin. Seriously, as much as I like Ben Reilly, it’s hard to imagine him being able to stay as the main Spider-Man for long, even with the ITTL 90’s Clone Saga being a lot cleaner and shorter than in OTL.

[4] - The first three episodes of the show that adapted the comic clone saga would then later be merged together and repackaged as a TV movie that could then be sold on home video, kind of like how the first few episodes of Aladdin: The Series and Buzz Lightyear of Star Command in OTL became Aladdin 2: Return of Jafar and Buzz Lightyear of Star Command TV movies that in OTL got sold on home video.

[5] - Sort of a ITTL version of Ultimate Jessica Drew, in that she’s a female clone of Peter that appears in a one off episode. She notably eventually makes her own ITTL comic book semi-debut in the form of Mary O’Brian during the ITTL early 2010's when the third Spider-Man, Stanley O’Brian, gets his own little three issue clone saga, with the main difference between the cartoon and comic versions being which Spider-Man she’s cloned from.

[6] - Basically a clone of Peter from a one off episode who was born with 6 arms and becomes Man-Spider like in the OTL 90’s show.

[7] - Before anyone complains, Jackal is known for having a Gwen Stacy obsession and frequently makes Gwen clones when he's not making Peter clones, so the idea of him making a clone of Gwen but with Peter's powers is not outside the realm of possibility. Ultimately this Spider-Gwen, for lack of a better term, won't really resemble her OTL in any way, simply being a clone that shows up in a one off episode who's a version of 616 Gwen who also just so happened to have Spider powers. In a show that keeps almost seemingly throwing darts at a wall to see which clone idea can stick, it was bound to have eventually created Spider powered clones of Peter's love interests, Mary Jane Watson and Gwen Stacy.

[8] - Notably since this was the death of the second Spider-Man and led only to the original Spider-Man returning, there’s no general expectation that Ben will necessarily return, so don't worry about this leading to the beginning of the OTL comic trope of death being a vacation that emerged prominently after the OTL Death of Superman comic.

[9] - As mentioned before in my ITTL Spider-Man 2 movie guest post, Stanley is basically a earlier ITTL equivalent to Miles Morales.

[10] - So basically the ITTL equivalent of OTL’s X-Men: Evolution, but if it leaned more into New Mutants aspect, with elements of OTL’s 2001’s and 2004’s New X-Men plus New X-Men: Academy X mixed in. I’d argue it can also be viewed as this timeline’s equivalent to the Young Justice cartoon, since it’s from the same creator as that and OTL’s Spectacular Spider-Man and has a number of similarities to Young Justice despite being X-Men focused rather than DC. In fact, considering this show ends up treating the older classic X-Men much the same way Young Justice treated and handled the Justice League, I’d say the comparison is even more appropriate.

[11] - Basically ITTL’s version of X-23, who still exists because her creator Craig Kyle is still involved like he was with OTL’s X-Men Evolution. Though she has a somewhat similar origin and identical powers (like OTL X-23 she has two claws on her hands and one on her feet along with the general Wolverine power set), the ultimate big difference (other than her prominent Japanese ethnicity) between this version of Laura (named Masume, which is Japanese for Daughter. If you can’t take the hint, it’s because that is the only thing she was ever referred to as growing other than Weapon XIII) and her OTL counterpart is of course the lack of cloning in her origin which is mostly as a result of cloning headache caused by the then ongoing 1999 Spider-Man show making the showrunners for this X-Men show want to steer clear of clones whenever possible. Instead her origin is kind of more similar to that of OTL’s Cassandra Cain, except instead of Lady Shiva for a mother, it’s Lady Deathstrike.

[12] - If you know about Rachel Summers in Days of Future Past, you can probably already guess what said hint is of. If you don’t, look up Rachel Summers Hound. It's honestly kind of messed up.

[13] - I’d kind of almost compare her to Weiss Schnee from RWBY, if you want a example of a character with a similar character development and transition.

[14] - In ITTL 2018, so about three years after this was written, they would sort of finally do this by having Rachel Summers in the comics experience and gain the memories of an alternate life and childhood which is basically almost or at the very least similar identical to her life from the X-Men: Mutant High show. Thus sort of trying to merge comic Rachel with her popular show counterpart.

[15] - Admittedly I’m taking inspiration for this character's powers (Just the powers mind you) somewhat from an original character from a X-Men fic called Extraordinary Times by Kenchi618. I’d highly recommend reading it if you haven’t and are a fan of the X-Men.

[16] - While one could argue that he could be considered the ITTL counterpart/equivalent of Elixir, in truth Biokenis’s powers (and arguably much of his character direction after season 3) more closely resemble that of Amy Dallon/Panacea from the web serial novel Worm by Wildbow, minus the fact that like Elixir and unlike Amy, Biokenis can also affect his own biology. There’s no manipulation of life force like Elixir has, instead Biokenis how the full ability to control, reshape, and manipulate any and all biological matter he comes into physical contact with.

[17] - Arguably that makes this arc from the show’s fifth season the ITTL equivalent of House of M, since it features a world where mutants "win" and everyone is a mutant.

[18] - If you want examples, you can almost say she’s the Katara (from Avatar: The Last Airbender) of the show, though sort of also mixed with Ruby Rose from RWBY.

[19] - You'd know that if you read the Hensonverse's Uncanny X-Men #598! :openedeyewink: In all seriousness though, Canvas has a scary OP power and when combined with his willingness to abuse it and his general a-hole type attitude, it's unsurprising that ITTL comic book writers would decide to make him a villain for a bit. The show writers for X-Men Mutant High even briefly considered doing it for the show's third season as well before they went with the dark and tragic Biokenis arc by considering having Canvas betray the team. While it didn't happen, knowing his character doesn't really make it all shocking.

[20] - So yeah that’s sort of how the show introduces Madelyne Pryor, who both is and isn’t a clone. She’s basically a copy of Dark Phoenix era Jean Grey created by Canvas that due to an intervention by the Marvel Universe’s literal embodiment of life and creation basically got saved when she would have started disintegrating after Jake’s power was no longer attached to her and therefore keeping her alive. She then goes on to fight the X-Men, her older self, and her alternate daughter before getting defeated and separated from the Phoenix by the combined efforts of her older self and alternate daughter. Then she kind of finds herself struggling to move past the trauma of not being the real Jean Grey, having been Dark Phoenix and briefly being completely and totally having her body and will controlled by Canvas, as well as having a hard time adjusting to living in what is essentially her future with her alternate future self and said alternate future self’s daughter and husband Cyclops (who from the perspective of young Jean was her boyfriend before she got copied and brought to the future). In the following season young Jean runs away from the school, goes rogue, and meets Magneto. She briefly then becomes a villain in Magneto's Brotherhood for a while before getting a redemption arc in the final season, rejoining the school, and even starting a romance with Logan. Oh and during all this she decides to adopt the name Madelyne Pryor, which in the universe of the show is Jean’s middle name (Madelyne) mixed with her mother’s maiden name (Pryor).

[21] - All three of whom you might notice are the ITTL equivalents of the characters from the same name. Though all of them were created in OTL in 2004, the reason they or rather alternate versions of them still exist here is because they were all created by Nunzio DeFilippis and Christina Weir. In case you aren’t aware they’re both comic book and television writers, having worked on X-Men comics and the show Kim Possible. I figured therefore it’s not outside the realm of possibility they end up working on this show and end up introducing some of the same, or at least close approximations, of the X-Men characters they created in OTL.

[22] - Think X-24 from the OTL movie Logan. He’s basically a mindless clone of Wolverine who’s under the control of Weapon X.

---

So yeah that was a lot. I guess tell me what you think?
I still think that Emma and Banshee could have been item, and that she’s the mother of Theresa. The fact she became her father and is trying to be better could be a good arc, and Adrienne would be a good baddie as well
 
More specifically Emma is ruthless but has some moments of humanity (regretting how things turned out with her lover and daughter, and genuinely supporting lgbt rights). Adrienne is Emma without any good qualities. Just a ruthless sociopath.
 
This is - allegedly - true OTL - however, it's unclear why he turned it down. Whilst it's said he was uncomfortable with the whole "faux-u-mentary" thign, my personal guess would be that he simply didn't have time.
That seems more likely to me, given that OTL he was happy to host the wonderful Natural History Museum Alive (basically Night at the Museum as a nature documentary), where he gets stalked by a sabretooth and reacts in delight to seeing a living dodo.
 
She's Heeerrreeee....
Heather O'Rourke: From Child Star To Horror Royalty

From the Bloody Scary Netsite, July 17, 2015
Guest post by @MNM041 with assistance from @Plateosaurus, Mr. Harris Syed, @nick_crenshaw82 and @Nathanoraptor
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She’s HHHHEEEE-reeee… after a long career hiatus to direct horror films! (Source: sergeykozyarsky on TikTok)

To many, Heather O'Rourke will forever be Carol Anne Freeling, the creepy little girl from Poltergeist who uttered the famous line, "They're here,", but not many know the story of the woman who became one of the biggest names amongst horror directors. O'Rourke by her own admission, had fallen ill by the time she was twelve years old due to intestinal stenosis, which according to her parents led to her having a near-death experience. Thankfully, she survived, though her parents thought it best to pull her out of acting for sake of her health[1] which was actually the reason that Heather wasn't at the premiere of the third and final Poltergeist movie.

"I had only really been alive for twelve years, and I had already felt like it might be the end. I remember feeling like I had missed out on a lot of my life because of working on movies, so I think I was kind of glad that it stopped for a bit, because I didn't want to spend my childhood growing up on camera," Heather explained when she sat down for an interview with us, "but at the same time looking back, I'm glad I got the those opportunities and I'm glad to be back working in entertainment."

O'Rourke also said that she had, "a much more normal childhood than many people probably think I did. The biggest difference was that some of my friends were famous, but I also had quite a few friends I don't think realized I was famous. That's the thing, I wasn't Jack Nicholson or anything, I was just in three big horror movies and a few episodes of stuff like Happy Days."

When Heather was fifteen, she decided she wanted to go to film school, inspired after rewatching herself in the Poltergeist movies, as well as by the Smart Slasher boom of the early 90s, and eventually found herself enrolling in NYU's prestigious film program. Heather said that growing up, she was “obsessed with Final Girl”. I even got a tattoo of the logo on my arm back while I was in college. After spending a lot of my middle school years being sick, I found myself gravitating toward Buffy because she was as strong as I wanted to be. A guy I liked in high school once said I looked like her and I swear to God, that was the best compliment I ever received in my life."

It was in NYU she developed the concept for her first project, Meet the Joneses, a black comedy and satire-filled horror film that pastiched 50’s sitcoms like Leave It To Beaver and The Dick Van Dyke Show. As with the eventual full film, it told the story of a single father and his daughter moving to a new neighborhood next to a seemingly picturesque family harboring some dark, twisted secrets. However, most significant was that Drew Barrymoore would have a supporting role. Despite some controversy over the more shocking elements of the films from Evangelical conservatives, the film ended up making the rounds on entertainment news in 1995, both for how well it showcased her potential (winning several awards at film festivals), as well as the fact that actress Drew Barrymore played the main character in this film. A sharp, biting satire of suburbia and the nuclear family, this and her short film Running Scared quickly caught the eyes of many studios, and just as O'Rourke was starting to return to the spotlight as well.

Two years later in 1997, Heather had begun to reestablish herself in the film industry, starting by landing a supporting role in the mockumentary Who Is Alan Smithee?. In the film, O’Rourke played a member of the documentary crew filming the antics and misfortune of the main character. Heather shot scenes for her character in her first acting role in over a decade and served as a mentor to the other unknown actors as she was the most experienced. "I kind of had to guide the others, because I was the only actual film school student there, which kind of made me feel like a douchebag because I was constantly telling the others that they weren't doing something right, even if it was something obvious. I swear that was probably the hardest job I'd ever had, because we were all spending most of our time trying to not laugh at Dana and Mike." said O’Rourke.

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Brittany Cummingham (Source: ebay.com)

Meet the Joneses was still on her mind, but even she had her doubts it would get picked up, as it possessed far more taboo subject matter than the likes of Poltergeist. In fact, even O’Rourke was shocked that she was able to get Barrymore on board for something as messed up as Meet the Joneses.

"Everyone I knew was shocked that I was able to get Drew for my student film but the thing is, I just called up my best friend and asked for a favor. Drew was essentially the only one I knew from my child star days who I still talked to. She also tried to shield me from some of the more messed up aspects of the entertainment world as we got older, which I'm certainly glad for having heard most of the horror stories." Indeed, Drew Barrymore and Heather O'Rourke had been friends since childhood. The two quickly became close friends and Barrymore remained a consistent fixture in her life even after Heather left the spotlight. "I genuinely couldn't have asked for a more supportive friend throughout all of this." Even still, Heather has admitted that her friendship with Barrymore led to some frustrating moments. "An annoying number of my classmates, who I don't think realized who I was at first, suddenly thought it was okay to just assume everything about me was dumb luck which unfortunately became something I had to get used to hearing."

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Drew Berrymore & Heather O’Rourke, circa 1982 (Source: Pinterest)

Regardless of your thoughts on how she got her foot in the door, Heather still got her foot in and then some, as soon after, the film was picked up by Universal Pictures and produced by Barrymore’s own Flower Films[2] with Don Mancini, the creator of the Chucky franchise, being brought on to help tighten up the script and O'Rourke once again seated in the director's chair. On the making of the film and the changes made during it’s the transition to the big screen, O’Rourke said that while much of the script from the student film was included in the final product "Don really helped freshen it up and I really credit him with helping me bring the story in really incredible directions. He's really one of my favorite people to collaborate with[3]."

When casting began for Meet The Joneses, it was essentially a given that Drew Barrymore would return to play the final girl, Brittany Cunningham, and here she would also serve as a producer on the film. "I knew straight from the jump, I wanted Drew to still be attached because she'd been such a big help getting the movie off the ground. We've joked that Meet The Joneses was the last film she ever did before she aged out of playing high school students."

John Ritter was brought on to play her widowed father, George. Heather explained why she cast him to play the father "John Ritter was just the nicest guy on set, and he was honestly just game for whatever we had to throw at him, I just think the world of him."

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Mr. Jones (Source:mad:nick_crenshaw82)

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Mrs. Jones (Source: nick_crenshaw82)

Casting for the titular Jones family on the other hand proved slightly more difficult, eventually ending up with Gary Cole as the father Robert, Jamie Lee Curtis as the mother Lucy[3], and Matthew Gray Gubler, Busy Philipps, and Rory Culkin as the children Richie, Carol, and Wally. According to Heather, "I just remember when we were doing auditions, all the guys auditioning for Robert were trying to lean into the creepiness, saying every line like a direct threat, then Gary just came in and read the lines he was a corny sitcom dad giving out life lessons and it just made my skin crawl for some reason. I knew after that was what I really wanted the family to come off like."

Aided by her talented crew, O'Rourke crafted an immensely eerie satire, drawing from the works of Tobe Hooper and John Waters. "So some of the inspirations for this film were the shocking, often transgressive works of John Waters so when I heard that he wanted to be an executive producer how could I say no. Not only that but he took time out of his schedule to help me on set, he became one of my greatest mentors."Much like the student film it was based on, Meet The Joneses focuses on Brittany and George Cunningham as they move into a new home in the town of Castor Ridge, Colorado after the recent death of Brittany's mother. Across the street to them is the seemingly perfect Jones family, who all encapsulate the seemingly perfect American family which was intentional as O’Rourke wanted the Joneses to have “this sort of Leave It To Beaver style look for all of them like they just leaped out of an old sitcom. They just look too pastel, too artificial, and I wanted that to be reflected in their home. The car too I wanted to just seem out of place, so we ended up using a concept car from the 1950s."[4]

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gGktIEHuzvf05QgyWa9LMWO6trmSFUSTeBDCuTBOYOuHzQqNazzFYuomt3bqlBM2x0prM2SWONxQkeWsmfJx7HRYKKLS1aFFQDL7-qdAEwasdWP6hmaiiLRZMMFtOE_eaQJ_o1TYmOonuDRKCyCP6rI
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The Joneses home exterior, interior, and the family car (Source: IMDB, Zillow, and auto.howstuffworks.com)

"I remember that I first came up with the idea for the film after hearing about this scrapped Leave It To Beaver movie that was being made around the time I was starting film school. In my head, I just thought how the Hell could you make a film based on Leave It To Beaver? Updating it would just make it dated, and if you don’t, everyone would just look creepily stuck in time. As soon as that came to me, it was like the ideas for this film just started pouring out of me, just ways to make what was presented as the ideal American family back then creepy as Hell."

Indeed, the first act contains many instances of odd and disturbing behavior from the seemingly perfect American family and hints of disturbing secrets within the picturesque small town they inhabit, further emphasized when people around the neighborhood start going missing and the Joneses keep popping by the house and act rather condescending. Brittany begins to suspect that the Jones family may be involved, and though her father doesn't buy into it at first, a neighborhood boy named Andy (played by Paul Rudd) does, even claiming to have seen proof she's right through his bedroom window. When it came to casting the part O’Rourke admitted she "hadn't really met Paul before auditions began” but the reason why he won the role was because “Drew had worked with him before and was adamant that we cast him. I have to say that this was the right call, and I'm always glad to work with him again even after how famous he's gotten after No Worries[5]. He's actually told me before that he can't watch Meet The Joneses because he thinks he looked stupid playing a high school student by that point, much to my confusion because he hasn't aged at all since he first appeared on No Worries."

As Brittany and Andy investigate further, more people begin to disappear more as their suspicions about the family are slowly but surely proven right, culminating in a dinner party that plays out like a Norman Rockwell painting from Hell. "I wanted to have a scene that was like that Norman Rockwell painting Freedom From Want with the end of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I even had an earlier draft that would have included a grandma for the family played by someone like Cloris Leachman, though realistically speaking, it probably would have just been me wearing a lot of old person makeup since I don’t believe Cloris or a Cloris-type elderly actress would sign onto this role because of scheduling or concerns over the subject matter. I suppose it's kinda fitting that Tobe Hooper, one of the guys who gave me a start when I was a kid would be one of my big influences." Heather told us in an interview on the making of the film.

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A scene from early on in the film shows Mrs. Jones putting together a Halloween costume with the help of her husband (wearing the mask)

Indeed, one of the climax's many shocking revelations includes that the Joneses are cannibals, having killed and eaten several of their neighbors. Even more disturbing, that "roast" that the Cunninghams and Andy had been served was actually made from the remains of a private detective, who has been investigating the various disappearances. The Jones family satirizes suburbia's obsession with maintaining the status quo and keeping their neighborhood presentable, as they see the newly-arrived Cunninghams as a major annoyance to their routine. Heather, while writing and going over the script, debated with Don with how much they could get away with in terms of content to avoid getting an NC rating since they were aiming for R unlike other films of the same genre. "Sometimes Don and I wonder if we went a touch overboard writing the script. Between the cannibalism, the fact that the dad turned out to be a Neo-Nazi, and the incest between the twins. I remember Don said that he thinks we'd have gotten obscenity charges if we made this even a decade earlier[6]. Honestly, I'm kind of proud of that. For my big debut, I got a bunch of big names, and a big studio behind me, and I basically made an exploitation film."

While nothing of that sort happened, the film did receive controversy over those aspects, but that may have helped it at the box office, as Meet The Joneses became one of the highest grossing horror flicks of 2000 after it's release on July 4th of that year, grossing over $48.6 million on a budget of $25 million. Even O’Rourke was surprised at the film’s success and remarked "I remember, I had like a mini-panic attack when I found out how many people had seen it, mostly because I wasn't expecting to make something that big. I still kind of get goosebumps thinking about it. Like, I somehow went from a short film that nobody saw to the biggest horror movie of the year in like three years." The film was also praised by several big names in horror, including David Cronenberg and Rob Zombie, both directors whom O'Rourke would appear in the films of.

"Rob Zombie is hands down, one of my favorite people I've ever worked with, always willing to take a chance on out there ideas and I think we've both helped iron out each other's worst tendencies as writers."

Naturally with the film turning out to be a hit, Heather was brought on to write a sequel, despite the fact that O'Rourke intended to have it so the family died in the massive house fire Brittany started to rid Castor Ridge of them during the climax. "They tried to make us cut out this scene at the end where, when the house is burning down, the Jones family all went back to the dinner table and just started saying grace as their house burned down. That's supposed to be it for them." While ultimately this wouldn’t happen, many solutions were proposed. One solution suggested would have been to pull a retcon showing they had survived and implying a supernatural origin for the family which Heather was against. Another they proposed was making it a prequel instead, taking place before the events of the first film. There was even a suggestion to instead make it in question a TV spinoff about them, in which the Joneses would off a new victim each episode pastiching stock sitcom plots, but while it did garner support from the two, it was ultimately shot down due to concerns that they would be unable to find actors who could replicate the performances.

The result was a film, Meet the Joneses: The Guest going the prequel route, and released in 2002 - right as Heather was cast in the film adaption of Scooby Doo which was the first sign that the film would end up having a troubled production. O'Rourke openly admits that her main reason for directing the film was that she didn't want someone else to make it. "After how much time I had devoted to those characters, I didn't want to suddenly just have that handed over to someone who would turn that into a cheap gorefest. I knew that after that film was over that whatever I did next would not involve the Jones family."

The plot of this prequel centered on a 15-year old runaway (played by Amber Tamblyn) getting picked up in the dead of night by Mr. Jones while a search party was being led by her parents (played by Brent Spiner and horror icon Heather Langenkamp) and her older sister (played by Jude Barsi).

"Production on The Guest was certainly… an experience to say the least. I basically decided that since I didn't want to make another one, but since executives were kinda forcing me along, I figured I'd just take a page out of Joe Dante's handbook and kind of do whatever the Hell I wanted to for the film. We basically all went to insane places and everyone was on board for it. That didn't stop things from being hectic, unfortunately. Looking back, I feel like the result was all over the place, and I don't think my approach of using everything and the kitchen sink was the right call. It was certainly a learning experience."

Nevertheless, the film was largely disowned by Heather O'Rourke (using the Alan Smithee-like credit of Rick Carpenter as a means of voicing disapproval) and Don Mancini (the latter didn’t even have a hand in writing it, as his own directorial debut was beginning production at that point), though both of them would notably go on to work with much of the film's cast again. O’Rourke described the film as “A massive migraine for me though I was glad to get a chance to work with everyone involved. Especially Jude. I'm so glad I got to meet her."

Barsi became one of most regularly recurring actors in O'Rourke's work, jokingly calling herself O'Rourke's muse. "Heather's like a big excitable kid, you can't help but feel happy around her. She's quite possibly the most beautiful soul I've ever met in my life. I love that woman." Barsi said of O'Rourke in a 2002 interview with NPR when asked about their relationship. Heather herself came out as bisexual later that year and the two officially announced their relationship in 2005.

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O'Rourke and Barsi, circa 2005, shortly after the two went public.

After the prequel, Heather made a return to acting albeit in supporting roles, starting with playing the character Mary Jane, the roommate of Daphne Blake in Kevin Smith’s[8] and James Gunn's aforementioned Scooby Doo adaptation. O’Rourke fondly described her experiences working with Smith and Gunn describing the two of them as "absolute joys to work with and I had a blast working on that film. I knew I wanted to keep acting and knew that I probably have to shake the child star off me, so to do that I ended up taking a role where I ended up making out with both Jennifer and Matthew. I feel like a lot of people were surprised by me in those films, but I'll be honest, I really didn't have to do that much acting."

After that, her next films would also be about retro-horror subverting childhood, from 2004’s The Wendigo, about a group of scouts who get lost in the woods with the titular cannibalistic creature in a homage to 70’s backwoods horror, to Doctor Satan, a Grindhouse film about a mad scientist from the town of Halestown, Kentucky raising an army of undead mutants as the residents of the area he resides form a mob to take him down, and her television debut “Can I Keep It?”, an episode of the British anthology horror series Primeval about a child who finds a baby dinosaur in their garden… and asking the question… what happens when it grows up?

Heather would nor be confined to horror, however. Whether it was family adventure films like 2008’s A Dinosaur in Central Park or the Kandi-esque drama film Sweetie spotlighting the mistreatment of child stars in the entertainment industry[9], Heather would still explore secrets and lies and the dark underbelly of nostalgia. "I like exploring the idea of exploring the twisted side that we consider comforting or normal and how it can ironically be disturbing to others, I mean Meet the Joneses was probably the best example of this but I think you can find this even some of the non-horror stuff I've done. I think that's probably the most recurring element of my career since I got into directing and writing, even in films I'm just acting in."

Heather was also slowly brought into Tim Burton's Skeleton Crew Productions via Jude and has been working on films with them since 2003. "That's been a real dream come true for me, I've worked on a lot of amazing projects through them."

However, in 2010, Heather announced a temporary hiatus from directing, citing a mixture of stress from a recent surgery and (with Jude jokingly saying that “I’m the breadwinner now”) a desire to spend more time with her and Barsi’s son, Jonah [11].

But now that it's over and she’s back, who knows what she’ll do? But we can certainly say that Heather O'Rourke is here, and she's here to stay.

[1] Hat tip to @nick_crenshaw82 for the idea for this movie.
[2] As a result of Barrymore and Flower Film’s involvement being busy with and other butterflies, Charlie’s Angels (2000) will not exist as in OTL.
[3] Don Mancini has very few credits to his name IOTL outside the Chucky franchise, with the outlier being that he wrote for Hannibal.
[4] Recall in An Alan Smithee Production post that O’Rourke avoided a misdiagnosis and took a break from acting until her grand return in Who is Alan Smithee?
[4] Yes, She does have Halloween jokes, like using a kitchen knife as her weapon and a few shots mimicking Michael Myers.
[5] The concept car in question was made by the Kaiser-Frazer Corporation and once its featured, it will get a lot more recognition from both gearheads and the public, with any reference often being next to a Meet the Joneses joke.
[6] This movie is kind of Paul Rudd's big break on film, as he ends up getting a lot more work after its success and proves that he’s not just Josh Lucas.
[7] A reference to what happened to Sam Raimi after the release of the first Evil Dead.
[8] The Director’s Cut does restore this, with O'Rourke and Mancini both stating that it depicts the family's canonical deaths.
[9] Much like Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, Heather becomes a regular collaborator with Kevin Smith.
[10] Stay tuned for a future guest post on what these projects are like.
[11] Credit to @Nathanoraptor for the name.
 
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Super Fishy
Blown Out of the Water: How Aquaman became the Success It Was
From the “ComicsCraze” Netsite by Noah Florence

Guest post by @Nathanoraptor, @Plateosaurus and @MNM041

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Generally this movie…. But not quite

2000’s Aquaman seems like it’d be a lovely recipe for disaster - the second instalment in the 90’s DC movie universe without Sam Raimi’s even tangential creative involvement (even The Justice League had been based on a - significantly altered - Raimi outline) right after the similarly-Raimiless Catwoman had financially underperformed, about one of the B-List Leaguers - who was a comedy relief character in his introductory movie who was played by a comedic actor whose chops as a leading man were unproven - and directed by an “untested” director who had mostly done mid-budget horror films.

It seemed guaranteed to sink (pun intended)… did it?

No.

Let’s dive into the story behind it, shall we? Let me take you back to the summer of 1998. As the new millennium approached, Warner Bros, after falling out with Sam Raimi over the creative direction of the DC movies (and eventually pushing him out), were in a pretty precarious place - whilst Garry Marshall had managed to salvage The Justice League, which had done quite well at the box office (and had received mixed-to-positive reviews), despite the vocal outcry from fans about how Raimi had been treated, the underperformance of Catwoman was making Warner nervous - whilst general audiences had seemingly been ambivalent on Raimi’s exile (and subsequent defection to Marvel), there was fear that The Justice League had been a fluke. For all intents and purposes, the franchise was still in limbo.

The sudden - and tragic - death of Superman actor Robert Downey Jr had also caused ructions within the upper echelons of Warner Bros, with debates as to whether it might be best to kill the character off or simply recast - aware that the fans, who weren’t particularly enamoured with them anyway, (and Downey’s co-stars - many of whom had attended his funeral) would make such an endeavour walking on eggshells. And, if the franchise was going to be tied up anyway…

A source who was close to the discussions at the time said, “It was a perfect storm for us - Sam [Raimi] was gone and had taken whatever plans he’d had with him to Marvel, Catwoman had underperformed and Robert [Downey Jr] - our flagship actor - had tragically died. People were looking at Aquaman and crossing their fingers - if it flopped, then we really were doomed.”

Now, the film had the superficial advantage that critics and audiences had deemed Hank Azaria’s take on Aquaman as among The Justice League’s high points, with even negative reviews of the film praising his performance - however, whilst the fact that the character could stand out (and memorably so) in an ensemble was very much in evidence, whether he could carry his own movie was rather more of an issue.

Regardless, the film got into production anyway, with Anthony Hicox in the director’s chair, with a script co-written by Hicox and John Logan. Tia Carrere was cast as Arthur’s love interest Mera. Whilst Carrere’s casting proved controversial at the time - despite the fact that she had been (coincidentally) Raimi’s ideal choice for the character - Carrere's has ultimately become the “default” look for the character.

Recalling the controversy, Azaria said, “Tia got it pretty bad from the fans… well, no, a certain angry, insecure subset of the fans, I should say. It was surreal - if you’d told me that people were losing their minds about Mera’s skin tone, I’d have asked what decade you came from. What’s funny is that those same fans liked Tia in the role in the end and, in every DC thing since then, there’s a Mera that looks like Tia’s… so, basically, they lost their shit for nothing.”

Regardless, there’s a wonderful screwball energy in Arthur and Mera’s interactions, with the stoic Mera often being forced to play the straight woman to the snarky, somewhat eccentric Arthur. According to Carrere, it was harder than it seemed, “I repeatedly had to fight back laughter when working with Hank - he has such a gift for comedy. But, of course, Mera rarely smiles and she never laughs.”

And Azaria gets to show off a much wider emotional range than he did in The Justice League, whilst being just as hilarious. Screenwriter John Logan recalls, “We wanted to make Arthur kind of a trickster, rather than a fighter, in the sense that he’s someone who prefers to use his wits to get out of situations - and you don’t know how much of what he does he’s planned and how much he’s just pulled out of his ass.”

Azaria further adds, “What I wanted to do was play him the way Sam intended, what Sam had sold me on - this guy who’s quirky and a bit theatrical and is a mediocre fighter, but makes up for it by using his wits… and willingness to cheat. We’d obviously seen hints of that in Justice League, but obviously, he wasn’t the focus there - he was just one of the crew, there to bicker with Superman and add levity to darker moments.”

The effects are top-notch and Atlantis is beautiful-looking when we see it - with visual effects done by Framestore (who’d gotten famous with the documentary series Where Dinosaurs Roam[1] the year before - several of the marine reptile models from which were reskinned and used for Aquaman, partly as a budget-saving measure and partly due to Hicox’s desire that the marine reptiles look as accurate).

Aside from all the creatures in the film (the sharks, hippocampi and marine reptiles that the Atlanteans ride), the deep-sea dwelling, anglerfish-like Dagonites and mermaid-like Tritonians were entirely CGI creations, done through Digital Acting, and, for the time, are surprisingly expressive.

The film chronicles Arthur’s return to his estranged motherland (metaphorically speaking) after the first battle with the Apokolipsians and finding himself having to deal with his treacherous half-brother Orm (Alan Cumming), who schemes to conquer the Seven Kingdoms of Atlantis, allying with Black Manta (Peter Mensah) and the Xebelites, led by Mera’s hot-headed brother Leron (Jason Scott Lee). The key to stopping him is the legendary trident of the First King of Atlantis - the Hiawatha-style figure who first united the Seven Kingdoms - which gives its bearer power over the seas.

Throughout the film, we reveal Arthur’s backstory - he is the illegitimate son of Crown Prince Atlan (Karl Urban) with a human woman named Teresa Curry (Maribel Verdu). Returning to Atlantis after his dalliance, Atlan married an Atlantean noblewoman, Atlanna and had a son, Orm, periodically sending Atlantean vizier Nudis Vulko (Morgan Freeman) to keep an eye on Teresa and Arthur (and teach Arthur about his heritage).

Unfortunately, thanks to the manipulations of Atlan’s scheming brother Orvax (Neal McDonough), the King of Atlantis (Brian Blessed) (Arthur’s grandfather), found out about his son’s bastard, and reluctantly ordered Teresa and Arthur killed. Both of Arthur’s parents died protecting him and Arthur ended up being raised by his uncle, Thomas Curry (Federico Luppi).

When the king heard the news of the death of his son, he died from grief and Orvax took the throne (surreptitiously ordering his sister-in-law executed for trumped-up sedition charges), manipulating his nephew Orm into becoming his puppet in the process.

Pursued by Black Manta and Orm’s men, Arthur and Mera eventually find the ancient trident and the First King’s crown in the custody of the Dagonites, seemingly degenerate, deep-sea-dwelling Atlanteans who are viewed as savages. Arthur and Mera find a still-living Atlanna (Ursula Mohan) - who was taken in by the Dagonites (who are fully sapient) after escaping her attempted execution.

Arthur has a talk with his “kinda-sorta” stepmother, who reassures him that his father loved him. Bolstered, Arthur gives a speech to the Dagonites (with Atlanna translating), apologising for the sins of the other Atlanteans against them - and they become Arthur’s main allies, with the promise that they will be integrated into Atlantis.

Arthur, Atlanna, Mera and the Dagonites, with the First King's trident, head back to Atlantis to challenge Orm, who has united the remaining Kingdoms to his banner. The Dagonites battle Orm’s forces, whilst Mera duels her brother on ichthyosaur-back, eventually defeating him.

Eventually, not wanting to risk the lives of his soldiers, Arthur challenges Orm to a duel - winner gets the throne. Whilst Orm, on his giant pliosaur mount, proves to be formidable, Arthur eventually defeats him by fighting dirty on his smaller plesiosaur - however, he chooses to spare his half-brother. Realising there’s no way to win here, Orm surrenders and is taken into the Dagonites’ custody. Arthur ascends to the throne of Atlantis with Mera and Atlanna by his side.

Perhaps shockingly, Aquaman was a commercial and critical success, with critics and audiences praising the effects, performances (particularly Azaria and Carrere’s interplay) and the classic Hollywood adventure film feeling. Gene Shalit described Aquaman as “a terrifically - and unapologetically - cheesy adventure flick that does not display its B-movie sensibilities as much as proudly broadcast them”, whilst Sheila Benson said, “Hank Azaria’s marvelous performance (already a standout element of The Justice League) is the icing on the cake for a brilliant film that is set to rehabilitate the much-disrespected Aquaman’s status in the eyes of fans and audiences alike, whilst setting a new standard for CGI.” More critically, Roger Ebert said, “Aquaman is a bombastic, incredibly enjoyable, visually spectacular adventure film… rather sadly, that’s all it seems to aim to be.”

Whilst The Justice League had proved Azaria’s ability to stand out in an ensemble, it was Aquaman that proved he could more than stand on his own as a leading man - in the aftermath, his film career went stratospheric, with him becoming Hollywood’s go-to actor for hammy and/or eccentric characters (alongside, of course, Nicolas Cage), most notably Captain Jack Swallow in Disney’s Red Sails franchise[2]. The film also made stars of three of its supporting cast - Tia Carrere, Ursula Mohan and Peter Mensah, the latter of whom would reunite with Azaria multiple times, most notably, in Red Sails: The Lost Souls, where Mensah played Dylan ail Don to Azaria’s Jack Swallow.

Commercially, Aquaman proved to be 2000’s darkhorse hit, making over $400 million worldwide and managing to give Godzilla 2 a run for its money - rather more gallingly for Sam Raimi, it beat Iron Man (which Raimi exec-produced) both commercially and for the Best Visual Effects Oscar - even if Iron Man did slightly better critically.

Recalling the whole shebang, Azaria said, “I never saw us as being in competition with Iron Man - none of us did. The press played it as a feud, when it wasn’t - I saw Iron Man and I loved it. I talked to Sam at Rob’s funeral about it and he was excited about Aquaman. I don’t know what the higher-ups think, but, with the creative people, the writers, actors, directors, you will find that most of us don’t buy into all that competition shit - many of us are fans of both Marvel and DC.”

He continues, “It was bittersweet, to a degree - you’re happy when people like something that you - and a lot of people - have worked very hard on… however, Rob’s spectre hung over the film. Everyone was aware we were doing this for something more than just ourselves - at the end of the day, these movies are Rob’s legacy and you’re doing the best you can for the memory of a dear friend.”

Aside from saving the 90’s DC film continuity and boosting Azaria’s career, the film rehabilitated the much-disrespected Aquaman from the joke pile. Many give the credit to Azaria’s own multi-layered performance as the character - combining hilarious quirks and oft-theatrical badassery with a surprising nuance and vulnerability.

Warner were revitalised by Aquaman’s success. With Aquaman proving that the non Big-Three Leaguers could carry movies on their own (giving them time to work out what exactly would happen with recasting Supes), WB began looking into adapting others - they decided to start with Green Lantern.

And the rest, as they say, is history.

– – – –

[1] - Verdu and Luppi were cast to reflect Azaria’s real-life heritage - he’s an American Sephardic Jew of Greek-Spanish descent. Yeah, now you know.
[2] - Yup - this is this TL’s slightly blasphemous take on Pirates of the Caribbean. With Nic Cage and Hank Azaria playing Tony Stark and Aquaman in the same time window, they pretty much become Hollywood’s two go-to guys for eccentric and hammish badasses.
 
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As Brittany and Andy investigate further, more people begin to disappear more as their suspicions about the family are slowly but surely proven right, culminating in a dinner party that plays out like a Norman Rockwell painting from Hell. "I wanted to have a scene that was like that Norman Rockwell painting Freedom From Want with the end of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I even had an earlier draft that would have included a grandma for the family played by someone like Cloris Leachman, though realistically speaking, it probably would have just been me wearing a lot of old person makeup since I don’t believe Cloris or a Cloris-type elderly actress would sign onto this role because of scheduling or concerns over the subject matter. I suppose it's kinda fitting that Tobe Hooper, one of the guys who gave me a start when I was a kid would be one of my big influences." Heather told us in an interview on the making of the film.
Hell, Betty White could have played the grandma in TTL--she did play a sort-of villain in Lake Placid...

That is one movie I would have liked to have seen, IMO. Fun fact: in OTL, Gary Cole was apparently considered for the role of Sonny Crockett in Miami Vice. And, in OTL (and probably TTL), he played Jeffrey MacDonald in Fatal Vision (a RL Green Beret/doctor who was convicted of murdering his family and blaming it on Manson-style hippies), and Judith Barsi played his daughter, Kimberly, who was among his victims (in one of the worst examples of Harsher in Hindsight in OTL)...
 
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Hell, Betty White could have played the grandma in TTL--she did play a sort-of villain in Lake Placid...

That is one movie I would have liked to have seen, IMO. Fun fact: in OTL, Gary Cole was apparently considered for the role of Sonny Crockett in Miami Vice. And, in OTL (and probably TTL), he played Jeffrey MacDonald in Fatal Vision (a RL Green Beret/doctor who was convicted of murdering his family and blaming it on Manson-style hippies), and Judith Barsi played his daughter, Kimberly, who was among his victims (in one of the worst examples of Harsher in Hindsight in OTL)...
I think that bit may have been added by Harrid Syded. He's quite myopic this way.
 
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