Indeed, maybe this would be the time to finally lop off the heads of the Sture Party once and for all?With the Danish homeland secure, it's now time to but the Swedes and Finns in their place, once and for all.
Sure. Equally under the undisputed rule of the Oldenburg tripple crown!In their place as coequal members of a political union!
One could also say that it's very rude to rebel against your lawfully elected sovereign a mere year after you swore him fealty under magnanimous terms I think the councilar allies in Sweden will want to clamp down hard on the Sture rebellion, to be honest.This.
Anything else would be very rude and lead to permanent unrest and frequent rebellion.
Arguably, I think the best he can do is punish them economically, take a bunch of the land, from the clergy that opposed him, it will serve two purposes:In OTL, Christian II was extremely cavalier in the way he treated the clergy. As mentioned in this timeline he wantonly imprisoned those bishops who opposed him (like the bishop of Hamar in Norway and Jens Andersen Beldenak of Odense) without much blowback from the Curia. Didrik Slagheck, the debauched would-be archbishop of Lund was even hanged and burned, albeit this was more a case of the king trying to avert the enquiries of the Papal legate into the Stockholm Bloodbath. I know that Henry VIII had John Fisher beheaded for opposing his 'Great Matter' - but would Christian II do the same? What would Pope Adrian's response be? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
What could possibly go wrong :!Indeed, maybe this would be the time to finally lop off the heads of the Sture Party once and for all?
However, the Jutlandic Lords Spiritual were basically the intellectual arm of the rebellion. The temporal head of the Lords Declarent has just been lopped off. I don't think economic sanctions (which to be fair is an absolute given anyways) would cut it (excuse the pun) in this regard. They would have to be removed from office because otherwise they would ipso facto maintain their position within the council of the realm! The clergy was after all the most prestigious estate within the realm. However, regardless of whether or not Christian II would go for deposition or decapitation, I'll need quite some time to work out the implications of this showdown with the church.Arguably, I think the best he can do is punish them economically, take a bunch of the land, from the clergy that opposed him, it will serve two purposes:
1) It is lenient in the regard that he does not have to chop off the head of bishops and priest, which quite possibly is gonna bring the wrath of the pope over him.
2) It gives increased revenue. Sort of a mini-Protestantism event, when the king took most of the church's land. More importantly, it makes the king more powerful without encroaching of the nobilities feet. Now, of course, much of the nobility is probably not in great standing at the moment.
We don't know a whole lot about what Christian II's final political plans were, although we have some very interesting sources (which I've been sitting on for the better part of year now) which indicate a planned move towards absolutism.There was something I would like to ask btw.
It is my understanding that the reforms of Christian II, is basically what Denmark got a century or so later in OTL. If this is correct that is an immense butterfly for the kingdom itself. What I'm wondering is if there are any moves for Christian II to reform the monarchy. The elective one in Denmark in this period is positively archaic. Historically it took the loss of 1/3 of Denmark (and powerful burghers, which does not exist yet) to reform it into the absolute one. What're your thoughts on this matter?
Basically, for me, the elective monarchy is the rot in the Danish state, not so much the nobility. Though it kinda goes hand in hand
Again, fines won't cut it. They need to be removed from office and locked away somewhere if not outright executed. The problem with that is the fact that I need to find some decent replacements. Ugh, more research.I believe that he would (semi) seriously consider it, but be talked out of it from the trusted advisors, into either fining them heavily and perhaps a banishment or two from the loudest detractors. Maybe publicising (make it leak) that he thought that it could be easily defended within his god-given sovereignty, but decided to deny a martyrdom
Well, Christian II's ecclesiastical reforms meant that the clergy has been banned from appealing directly to Rome. Could be an interesting way to instigate a split with the Curia thoughAs @Bastiram pointed out, take some land from the church, but be lenient in other regards - given Christian II has a warmer relation with the Church in TTL, this way he gets the best of both worlds. Gets to show mercy, punish the priests while not treading on Rome's toes, while also increasing the land/tax revenue under the realm's control.
Thank you for the kind words! I've had a streak of writer's (and mapmaker's) block these past few months. Then there's the whole 40-hour work week and Tehrani life in general that kinda make you focus on other thingsIs this timeline still being updated? Because it is really great! It’s always a joy to read an alt TL about a united Scandinavia, and the levels of detail in this one is incredible. I especially have a fondness for the maps.
Thank you for the kind words! I'm very happy that you stick around and read my far too detailed drivel
A bravo is more than enough! I'm glad you're sticking it out!The biggest problem is that some of the the posts are so well thought out, that you really can’t say anything other than bravo.
I was very happy to finally finish this update as well. One of the hardest to write for some reason..This is a good day.
Thank you! You're far too kind, there's a lot of excellent timelines floating around this particular sub-forum.So the Vasas and the Jutland-Holsteiner nobility have been vanquished -- guess its time for more centralization by force! Glad to see this back, your knowledge of the subject and excellent maps put this TL above and beyond most of the rest of the active stuff in the pre-1900 forum
It's crossed my mind and it's something I've been wanting to do for quite some time. We might do a few broader updates after the next couple of chapters, where we'll really be getting into the nitty-gritty of the royal supremacy.Great to see this back! Are you planning on speeding up the pace of the TL (more years going by per update) now that the war is done?
It can go so many ways! I'm taking wagers on how many heads are gonna rollI’ve been looking forward to this
Thank you for taking the time to read it all - I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed writing it
I'm not an expert on agricultural history unfortunately (I had a tendency to drone off when my lecturers would touch upon the subject...), but given Christian II's industrious nature and great connections with the Netherlands, I could see some kind of agricultural revolution kick off at one point or another.With Zealand, Funen, Jutland, Holsten, Slesvig and Scania being in a single political and economic entity, how does it affect agricultural history? In the end, are there any barriers for a Norfolk-style Agricultural Revolution to start from Denmark?