Well, you know, Lord Rosebery, the Liberal PM who got the job when Gladstone retired the final time was pretty conservative in his liberalism, denounced the People's Budget as "pure socialism" (his words) and opposed House of Lords reform (I think) was still a huge fan of Cromwell throughout his life. He even paid to have them place the statue of Cromwell by the Palace of Westminster. Who knows, it may well be so that you can still admire Cromwell in this timeline.
TLIAW: The Unreformed Kingdom
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
Well, you know, Lord Rosebery, the Liberal PM who got the job when Gladstone retired the final time was pretty conservative in his liberalism, denounced the People's Budget as "pure socialism" (his words) and opposed House of Lords reform (I think) was still a huge fan of Cromwell throughout his life. He even paid to have them place the statue of Cromwell by the Palace of Westminster. Who knows, it may well be so that you can still admire Cromwell in this timeline.
We must, and maybe one day we will. For now, let's focus on our Swedish Presidential TLIAW, shall we?
Thande
Donor
I would be remiss if I did not give my blessing to a spinoff given my own Shuffling the Deck-related activities, but I do suggest you make it your own scenario rather than trying to fit with the world I describe here.
(My own thoughts for what Scandinavia looks like in TTL are 'not actually that different to OTL, but nobody really notices except a minority who calls for their country to emulate them, and get ignored')
Sulemain
Banned
I've got the image of your average Swede visiting the UK ITTL and just WTFing at everything.
I do hope France and/or Germany is, well, modern, ITTL.
We must, and maybe one day we will. For now, let's focus on our Swedish Presidential TLIAW, shall we?
I should get cracking on that, now that you remind me.
And i should start looking into my own chapter.
You're right. Part of making the whole TLIAW-scenario work is that it must be driven all the way by a sudden burst of inspiration, and you sort of lack that if you're just taking the template of another TLIAW and change the setting minimally. I'll respect the creator's wish this time around.
Great afterword, to a great piece.
I daresay I count as a sufficiently diehard anti-determinist anyway that my reading this story was a matter of preaching to the converted, but nevertheless I very much enjoyed it. Thank you for the effort, Thande.
I daresay I count as a sufficiently diehard anti-determinist anyway that my reading this story was a matter of preaching to the converted, but nevertheless I very much enjoyed it. Thank you for the effort, Thande.
This TL was a good thought-experience about political progress and determinism.
Sulemain
Banned
If I may add to something that others have touched on, this is very Turteldovian, but in a good way. Turtledove when he was still interesting, when he was still creating his TL-191 as "This is the USA. This the USA when the Kaisereich is its main international ally".
You here people today talk about not caring about voting and so forth; it's that attitude that makes this TL work. Yeah, the butterflies have been massacred. Yeah, their probably would have been a revolution if not for the GRA. But their is an element of plausibility to this that makes it work.
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All the aims you mention as seeking to achieve in the afterword? I think you've nailed the lot.
This is definitely a good counter to all the TLs out there with a somewhat Whiggish flavour. Not that I can blame the writers, seeing as I'm not usually one for dystopias unless they're incredibly well done. Using some of the Great Men of History to torpedo the idea that "Things can only get better" below the plimsoll line is better still. Technological progress and social progress need not march hand in hand, and the iPlayer-esque prog broadcasting live executions was an inspired way of bringing me up short.
I noticed the switch between Huskisson and Grey, but forgot to comment on it.
Well done that man.
This is definitely a good counter to all the TLs out there with a somewhat Whiggish flavour. Not that I can blame the writers, seeing as I'm not usually one for dystopias unless they're incredibly well done. Using some of the Great Men of History to torpedo the idea that "Things can only get better" below the plimsoll line is better still. Technological progress and social progress need not march hand in hand, and the iPlayer-esque prog broadcasting live executions was an inspired way of bringing me up short.
I noticed the switch between Huskisson and Grey, but forgot to comment on it.
Well done that man.
Thande
Donor
I actually forgot to mention the real inspirations for the Doncaster by-election. Should I edit it into the Afterword or leave it for the appendices?
Appendices, I think. You don't need more in the afterword, at least in my opinion.
Uhura's Mazda
Banned
As One Direction have split up today, I'm coming to the conclusion that Thande has voodoo powers.
EDIT: and the BBC has commissioned a costume drama about the Wentworth-Fitzwilliam family!
EDIT: and the BBC has commissioned a costume drama about the Wentworth-Fitzwilliam family!
Abhakhazia
Banned
One of the things that strikes me as interesting is how this "terrifyingly backwards" world is that there are bright spots, particularly on the Native American front. In today's Illinois there's really nothing in the way of a Native community, having been tore apart by Appalachian migrants, Jacksonian efforts and the Black Hawk War. But here, in this terribly illiberal world, the Illiniwek Confederation is still a thing, that has its own autonomous lands.
I assume other things that we think of as terrible now that were viewed as hallmarks of progressivism- hardcore nationalism and eugenics- also possibly don't exist in this world.
It's interesting to think about it, and shows how no society is black and white.
I assume other things that we think of as terrible now that were viewed as hallmarks of progressivism- hardcore nationalism and eugenics- also possibly don't exist in this world.
It's interesting to think about it, and shows how no society is black and white.