IIRC a lot of people back then thought of bombing in general the same way we do of nukes these days.
TLIAW: Making Murder Sound Respectable
- Thread starter Mumby
- Start date
They did. 'The bomber will always get through.'
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Anyway - well done, Bob! A cracking ending, the right kind of twist in the tail (tale?) and you've actually managed to make a plausible Dieselpunk 2015. It might be difficult for the events along the way to get us there, but the world these people inhabit is actually believable and consistent. I think I must agree that the most interesting part is the 'democracy that still has political violence as part of life', because as we've seen in France, 'the odd riot or two now and then' can be part of a functioning democracy. El-Hahshem's speech shows that peaceful transfers of power are the norm, and that Britain Shall Prevail.
Once again, I liked your viewpoint characters. My only suggestion would be that their arcs get completed slightly more satisfactorily - we don't need Ed Costello-style 'THE COUNTRY IS DYSTOPIAN BUT EVERYBODY IS BANGING' (as excellent as that was), but I think I'd have preferred Alan to say 'right, I think it's time for bed' and then for everyone to have fallen asleep anyway, or something. A reminder that most people do that on election nights - in this world, and OTL too. A little smidgeon more than the ending we got would've been perfect.
Anyway, this is excellent. Well done. Do more like it. At some point. No rush.
phreeeeeeesh
The World of Making Murder Sound Respectable
In this world, the Bolsheviks were critically undermined at a crucial stage, and the Provisional Government of Russia managed to hammer out a constitution and the Russian Republic was born. They ended up ceding Brest-Litovsk to the Kaiserreich, but Germany lost the war in similar circumstances to OTL. In the absence of the Bolshevist threat, anti-communism didn't get quite the push it did in our world. Nevertheless, Mussolini arose for similar reasons to OTL, and as OTL managed to take control of Italy. However, the Nazis never quite made it as they did in our world. They were brought into a conservative coalition, and Hitler was successfully controlled and marginalised. This coalition dominated the 1930s, and a version of the Nuremburg Laws was introduced, which restricted Jews to urban ghettoes.
Nevertheless, Germany remained a democracy, and in the 1940s the conservatives gave way to liberals, who organised proper municipal governments for the Jewish ghettoes, albeit only autonomous from the broader municipal government of the city itself. In Russia, a soft-fascist strongman took power, who began competing with resurgent Germany for dominance in Eastern Europe. In Southern Europe, Italy spread fascism across the Balkans, sponsoring border adjustments in favour of its chosen allies, leading to a stereotype of Southern Europe not dissimilar from OTL Latin America. Its intervention in the Spanish Civil War was less successful. The Spanish Republic ultimately fell to a loose federation, whose parts themselves differ wildly in politics, from anarchist Catalonia, to the more standard socialism of the bulk of the country to the staunch Catholicism of its fringes.
As for Britain and France, they steadily disassembled their colonial empires having the luxury of time. European countries continued to view one another with suspicion, and Britain and France are rather closer to the more tight-knit economic communities which have emerged from their empires, than with each other. Italy tried to keep hold of its colonies as long as possible, whereas the Spanish directly integrated their colonies as members of their loose federation.
Meanwhile, over in America, the Red Scare of the 1930s was averted and Eugene Debs achieved second place in 1932. However, that allowed Herbert Hoover four more years, and while the economy got trundling again it was much slower than it might otherwise have been. The Socialists were blamed for the defeat, and the Reds languished in third place for many years. However, they did become a permanent presence, tugging the centre of American politics to the left.
While the British and French were able to manage the independence of their colonies on their terms in the bulk of cases, in the Middle East they managed to bugger it up. The rise of an 'Islamic Socialist' ideology that also blended elements of fascism that emphasised religious rather than racial exceptionalism, challenged the colonial powers. Quietly supported by the Italians, who hoped to manoeuvre the region into their sphere of influence, it quickly got out of hand. In the 1960s, they managed to wrench themselves away from London and Paris and formed a tight alliance. This came to overthrow the Saudis in the 1970s, and united as the Arab Solidarity. The Italians came to regret their decision, as Libya tore itself away from Italy violently, and so began the long Oil Embargo which saw the Second Coal Boom in Europe.
Proxy fighting between Russia and Germany escalated through the 1960s and 70s, and at the end of the 70s, Russia suffered a military coup, and Colonel Muratov led the country into a new age of peace, that built economic links between them and the traditional enemy. Inside Germany, a right wing government separated the Jewish municipalities off as their own cities to try and prevent German citizens from subsidising Jews. However, successive leftish-liberal governments granted the Jewish cities restored freedoms, and improved infrastructure and living conditions. In the 1980s, the Jewish cities were collected together as a single unit, electing members to a new state, the Judenstaat. The Judenstaat tends lefter than the rest of Germany, not unreasonably. Peace in Eastern Europe saw Jews from the right-wing states there take the opportunity to move to Germany and into the densely populated cities of the Judenstaat. These cities have become the most urbanised and experimental parts of the Reich, havens of free-thinking inside broader cities which can often be more conservative and authoritarian.
With Europe roughly divided into three and a half chunks (Germany+Russia, Fascist Southern Europe, Britain+France, Spain) most of the immigration going into the big economies was from the old colonies. However, with no WWII, there was no 'Windrush Generation', just a steady trickle of immigrants seeking a better life in the mother country. Due to this, there was no sudden terror of being outnumbered by 'pickaninnies', though in the 1970s, there was a split on the right of the National Party which solidified the moderates as a centrist, technocratic party, but helped clean up the BUF's image with Bufton Tufton country stalwarts. By the present, Britain and France are ironically more ethnically mixed, and their populations are higher despite no Baby Boom. The BUF rebranded itself as the Union Party, and appealed to an ideal of European unionism, opposing the threat of the rise of the Dominions (especially the non-white ones) as big economies.
In Asia, a weak Russia, withdrawing colonial powers etc. saw Japan essentially succeed in their goals of dominating a great deal of Asia, though outside Korea and Japan, their relationship with ex-colonies was necessarily more consensual. They never went to war with America, and the US remains in spectacular isolationism, though it is the world's largest economy and continues to strong-arm Latin Americans to get their own way. China tore itself out of Japan's sphere when the militarist regime moderated enough that it was no longer palatable to set off more smallpox bombs. China is now considered a Great Power on the up, along with India. Arab Solidarity has found a friendly market in China for its really cheap oil, and China is less rich than OTL but at the same time was never Communist.
iddt3
Donor
Fascinating world, I suspect one side effect of normalized political violence is a far higher level of generalized political engagement. Though, if the Arabs aren't selling coal to anyone in the West, who the hell are they selling it to? China, Japan, and India alone can't account for it, especially given that without WWII the European economies are all probably quite a bit stronger than OTL, and thus represent a greater percentage of global demand.
Smuggling
Offically the Arab states are embargoing the Europeans but I am sure some is being exported to third parties then resold to the West.
Offically the Arab states are embargoing the Europeans but I am sure some is being exported to third parties then resold to the West.
I agree:
- The NSDAP still a mainstream party, and fascism generally a mainstream strain of thought
- A far-right party electing an Arab woman as PM
- Acceped political violence causing thousands of deaths
- Jews in Germany still living in ghettos
- And many more
I would like to know how France is doing, if Action Française is an influential movement and if de la Rocque movement - the French equivalent of Social Credit - is a mainstream one.
I kinda wonder what the aesthetics of technology like TVs here are like. Like if we looked at a television, would we even recognize it as a TV?
I really enjoy the little differences in terminology here. It's not just the big things like politics that are different but even the daily terms used for familiar things like televisions or microwaves that show this is a different timeline.
I really enjoy the little differences in terminology here. It's not just the big things like politics that are different but even the daily terms used for familiar things like televisions or microwaves that show this is a different timeline.
Yeah, I'm quite happy with my ATL terminology. I'm glad you like it too.
Bumping this thread, with a map!
I'm Robert Mumby and I approve this message.
Mumpy do you have a little list with various terminology from TTL to compare to OTL terminology?
Like: televisor = television for example
Also what is military technology like here? I presume there hasn't been a WW 2 equivalent here so is military tech possibly sort of less advanced here?
Like: televisor = television for example
Also what is military technology like here? I presume there hasn't been a WW 2 equivalent here so is military tech possibly sort of less advanced here?
I literally just came up with them on the fly.
Raycooker=microwave
Comportable=laptop
Well, there's been lots of smaller wars and things to drive innovation in that regard, and a lot of people who died because of Hitler, Stalin, the Holocaust or Mao didn't, so that's a thing.
I see.
You said it was sort of a "realistic dieselpunk" setting. How has that influenced stuff beyond politics? Like are racial attitudes here akin to those from the 40's? What the aesthetic of buildings and tech, are they different here?
What about stuff like environmentalism? Like is London here really smoggy compared to OTL London for example?
You said it was sort of a "realistic dieselpunk" setting. How has that influenced stuff beyond politics? Like are racial attitudes here akin to those from the 40's? What the aesthetic of buildings and tech, are they different here?
What about stuff like environmentalism? Like is London here really smoggy compared to OTL London for example?
No, social values have advanced similarly to OTL, though there is a wider range of what is seen as acceptable. No phrenology, but the Nazis in Germany talk about cultural purity, and raise fears of an adulteration of the German culture. South Africa has been able to maintain a separate but equal segregationalism. But at the same time, many European countries are for more intimately connected to non-white ex-colonies across the world. There are more Jews and Gypsies. The centre is in roughly the same place as OTL, but the fringes are not bloodied by our history.
Fascism has led the way on environmentalism in this world, while socialism remains an ideology of smoking factories and heavy industry. In Europe, blockaded from Arab oil, and isolated from Russian gas, coal remains the dominant fuel, and peasoupers are still the norm in London.
Maybe. Generally, there is less free trade in this world, with more trade blocks and economic nationalism.
