Deleted member 67076
Jord's explained it better than I could.
That's unlikely due to the logistics of that and the fact to get to Portugal, you got to get through, Castile, Aragon and Portugal's old ally England, and perhaps even intervention by France. Not even the Ottomans can take on that many big shots at the same time.
Deleted member 67076
Thanks you both. I do hope to be returning to this since my writer's block has finally worn off. Hopefully, I can finish this timeline (Of Which I'm late by a few months. :/) by the end of this week.
There'll be mainly 1-2 more updates wrapping things up until we reach the point of the Pax Ottomana; lets see if I can keep up the quality until then.
By the way, here's a map of the Empire c. 1480.
There'll be mainly 1-2 more updates wrapping things up until we reach the point of the Pax Ottomana; lets see if I can keep up the quality until then.
By the way, here's a map of the Empire c. 1480.
Glad to hear you'll be finishing this one. I look forward to the next post.
What are the borders of super-Switzerland? I'm guessing the blue thing is the enlarged Milan.
Given how Switzerland in TTL is part of the Ottoman sphere, including their borders in the next map would be cool.
What are the borders of super-Switzerland? I'm guessing the blue thing is the enlarged Milan.
Given how Switzerland in TTL is part of the Ottoman sphere, including their borders in the next map would be cool.
Any updates?
At some point soon I'm going to go fishing, so here're some ideas:
The Ottomans are stronger in TTL and they'll have the Venetian fleets (along with Ragusa, another trading city vassal'd to them and maybe the Corsairs too) to bolster their fleets in the Red Sea along with Muslim allies. And with a rebuild Pharaoh's Canal, they can transit the Sinai and enter the Red Sea.
The Portuguese ships were impressive armaments-wise, but they'll likely have a much more difficult time establishing hegemony in the Indian Ocean this time around. On the other hand, the Ottomans can't be strong everywhere.
At some point soon I'm going to go fishing, so here're some ideas:
The Ottomans are stronger in TTL and they'll have the Venetian fleets (along with Ragusa, another trading city vassal'd to them and maybe the Corsairs too) to bolster their fleets in the Red Sea along with Muslim allies. And with a rebuild Pharaoh's Canal, they can transit the Sinai and enter the Red Sea.
The Portuguese ships were impressive armaments-wise, but they'll likely have a much more difficult time establishing hegemony in the Indian Ocean this time around. On the other hand, the Ottomans can't be strong everywhere.
Oh I just found this tl and I love it! Also only Cyrenaica is missing from Ottoman control before they can say they rule the Eastern Half of the Roman Empire in full! They should totally take it and Messina at least, to solidify Rom... I mean Ottoman rule in the East Med.
I would say the end of Ottoman reach in the west would be intergrating Tunis/Libya and Siciliy/Sardengna, along with Milan. To make a nice ring out of their lands.
I would say the end of Ottoman reach in the west would be intergrating Tunis/Libya and Siciliy/Sardengna, along with Milan. To make a nice ring out of their lands.
Deleted member 67076
Thanks for all the support guys! I'm very much trying to wrap this up but its proving rather difficult to write so please forgive the delays. (Currently I'm on my 6th draft for this update >_<)
Deleted member 67076
Oh, this really deserves to be a full-blown TL (I've never actually thought about how an Ottoman conquest could be beneficial to Italy).
Thanks for the good work!
Deleted member 67076
I might reboot this in the far future, but there's a number of projects I want to get to at some point in time. Things like a surviving Gran Colombia and what not.
With that said, here's the update/ending. Wow, my hands hurt.
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The Year is 1503. The Emperor is dying and with it perhaps all he has worked to gain. His decades of rule had served the state well, strengthening and nurturing it. Alas, no man can rule forever. In his time the empire had grown: in men, in wealth, in soldiers, and perhaps in wisdom. From Medina to Malta, Tunisia to Tuscany, all have been united by the Kayser in Constantinople. But his influence expands far beyond the de jere borders. Numerous clients and vassal tribes, along with staunch allies work together for the glory and power of Rome. Crimea, Algiers, Songhai, Venice, Lombardy [1], Yemen, Oman and Switzerland, among others are part of the Ottoman system.
Now one might wonder how such things have happened so suddenly (in the grand scheme of things). Let us return to the early 1470s and see the path Orhan had chosen. With the Swiss debacle ended, the eyes of the Ottomans were to turn back into the Orient, where the Hedjaz, and the exiled Abbasid Caliphate lay. The exiled Abbasid state, after centuries of decline, were finally put out of its misery. This is not to say they were executed, but with the conquest of the Hedjaz by the Kayser, Rome forced them to relinquish their spiritual authority. The House of Osman now stood as both the highest temporal power in the Dar-Al-Islam, and its highest spiritual authority. Of course, many ignored such claims, but it did not matter as no one had the force to challenge the Ottomans. Domestically, this was yet another boon to the empire and their prestige.
We continue onward, and we see the subjugation of the Libyan tribes of Cyrenaica following soon. Upon assuming spiritual command the Kayser resumed to perhaps the oldest of Roman goals: Attaining Mediterranean supremacy. The benefits were obvious and many: control of the trade between Europe and Africa, ensuring naval supremacy, allowing for easier resupply to far off provinces, increasing prestige via conquest, strengthening the claim of being the Roman Empire, etc, etc. It was simply too good to be ignored.
The Hedjaz had been a detour from this primary goal simply because it was an opportunity that could not go ignored. Seizing control of the highly lucrative pilgrimage business, combined with the potential to increase the empire’s spiritual authority was such a tempting target. However, with that being incorporated and peace in the north thanks to the Swiss (who, along with the Milanese served as excellent buffers), and in the east thanks to the weakening of the Jalayirids, the Porte was able to focus its mind on other matters.
Thus the plan was set: Mare Nostrum must be restored. All who stand in the way are to be coaxed into the Ottoman sphere or eliminated.
First rival in the way Ifriqiya would fall first. Currently under the rule of the Hafsid dynasty, this small yet prosperous kingdom had recently been in an excellent position despite the loss of Tlemcen to Morocco. It had gained prominence in the Sub-Saharan trade
Second, would be not a military campaign, but a diplomatic one. The Nasrid Emirate, situated in the southern coast of Spain was the last remnant of the once mighty Al Andalus. Small and feeble, they had been reduced to the plaything of the Christian realms, a vassal to be conquered whenever the king would be bored. But they had also control of the realm of Gibraltar, a must for those who wished to secure the seas. [1] Thus it was viewed as an important target. They Kayser hoped that by wooing the small state into voluntary vassalage under the promises of security and patronage. The Ottoman system, already decentralized efficient for its time could also be used as another carrot should the ruler be as so prideful as to refuse for fear of losing their power. And if even that failed... well, there’s always force.
Third would be Malta and Sicily. The former providing an excellent position to position the navy and project power all across the sea and the latter to further ensure the safety of Italia . However, both would mean attacks on the Crown of Aragon, which could potentially bring in unwanted attention from other Christian states who would love the opportunity to attack. As well, it was done last as for fear an attack on Malta would prompt Christian counterattacks on the Nasrid Emirate, which would mean further wars would be necessary to take that vital land.
Fourth would be Algiers to be integrated into the system of allies and clients, and fifth Morocco, if possible.
Over the course of several decades, they would be completed. Ifriqiya was crushed without much effort and the trade routes to the might Songhai. Grenada readily accepted the opening of relations and profited from its status as the middleman between Castile and the Ottomans. Through the tiny emirate, trade flowed into Andalusia and throughout all of Spain. The wealth of the East whetted the appetite for spices and silk, prompting the Castilian court to follow in the steps of their neighbor Portugal and fund new expeditions to the Orient. When the time came for Sicily and Malta, the Great Fleet of the Romans annihilated the Aragonese, although that is not to say that they did not fight well. Indeed, Ottoman casualties were rather high. And yet it was worth it. The presence of a hostile power potentially within striking distance of Rome was removed, the strategic port of Malta was gained and the grain of Sicily yet again provided meals for the hungry. Now with that, the majority of the Mediterranean was once again ruled by a single power. Never since the age of Heraclius had someone dominated the great sea to this extent.
Continuing onward, we see his further actions, mostly designed to supplement and strengthen that core goal of supremacy in the Mediterranean. Algiers was effectively turned into a friendly client state. Likewise, Wattasid Morocco, (who had been suffering from a myriad of issues [2]) was similarly propped up into a client in exchange for help in dealing with the Portuguese and the Berber nomads. Relations were established with the Songhai of the south, and mutually beneficial trade deals took off. Further aid was granted to the Swiss in their wars, turning the small confederacy into a growing power. Through patronage of the repairing the ancient Pharaoh’s canal at the insistence of their Italian subjects, began to penetrate into the Indian Ocean, occasionally sparring with the Portuguese for dominance.
Thus at the end of his reign, the empire was at, or at least near its apex of power. The Kayser had engorged his empire, more than doubling its already massive size. Innumerable amounts of wealth flowed into Constantinople. Art and intellectual activity flourished. And although his policy of near constant warfare and massive patronage had cost a fortune in and of themselves, this was tempered by the relatively constant accusation of new land to tax, nurturing of internal commerce and increase wealth through dominance of the Sub Saharan and Oriental trade routes. [3]
However, Orhan for all his faults was a man who loved to micromanage and never once did the crucial task of delegating a successor. Thus at the time of his relatively unexpected death, there were a number of claimants to the Ottoman throne who threatened to undo all the work he had done. Fortuantely, it did not. Alas it seems, the great error of the Romans, the formalization of the succession, would not be solved. Nonetheless, the Pax Ottomana would continue onwards, undisturbed until the combined pressures of the Russian Empire and Persia descended on Rome herself.
[1] Milan eventually ‘upgraded’ itself to a kingdom, and seeing as the name of Italy wasn’t exactly available, they chose the next best thing.
[2] Including but not limited to: Social instability, population stagnation, difficulty in imposing control over the nomads, economic difficulties ramping up as the Portuguese occupied the ports and trade was lessening, and a loss of dominance of the traditional caravan routes with Sahelian Africa
[3] In case anyone thinks this is a non stop wank. Here’s how it works: The state is able to fund its patronage, building frenzies and massive army through getting lots of money from taxing trade and land. And nothing is currently working to undermine that. Right now corruption is low, the state is dynamic and there’s no major enemy to constantly be on guard from. However, with the eventual rise of the Safavids, the shifting of traditional trade routes and rise of established interest groups...
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Great ending to a great TL.
And despite this being a more powerful Ottoman Empire, it ended on good note in showing the short comings of Orhan's rule. It's likely we're seeing the empire at its apex, and the looming civil strife (or even outright war) could knock it back, TTL's Ottomans will probably hold on and remain a power for centuries to come, even more than in OTL. Though short term they might lose their Iberian holdings and Milan and the Swiss might break away. And even with Portugal's future expansion into the Indian Ocean, a much richer Ottoman navy could pose a much longer rival to their trade empire. It all depends on who replaces Orhan and how much treasure and blood is spilled to claim his mantle.
And despite this being a more powerful Ottoman Empire, it ended on good note in showing the short comings of Orhan's rule. It's likely we're seeing the empire at its apex, and the looming civil strife (or even outright war) could knock it back, TTL's Ottomans will probably hold on and remain a power for centuries to come, even more than in OTL. Though short term they might lose their Iberian holdings and Milan and the Swiss might break away. And even with Portugal's future expansion into the Indian Ocean, a much richer Ottoman navy could pose a much longer rival to their trade empire. It all depends on who replaces Orhan and how much treasure and blood is spilled to claim his mantle.
Deleted member 67076
Thanks everyone! I had a lot of fun writing this.
I've already said they would. Once the initial phase of expansion combined with the strengthening of enemies, rise of Persia and Russia, increasing corruption of the state apparatus and loss of domination of traditional trade routes, their position will get weaker. Won't happen for a while. But it will.
Ok, here's another map showing the empire and vassal/clients at 1503. Allies not included. The Nasrids are a in a weird position. They are quasi vassals because at the same time they're Castile's puppet as well as the Ottoman's newest vassal. Its... an awkward position but one that's too useful for anyone to seriously try to work against it (for now at least).
I'll do another map showing the apex of the empire and allies, along with the growth rate.
Rum.
I've already said they would. Once the initial phase of expansion combined with the strengthening of enemies, rise of Persia and Russia, increasing corruption of the state apparatus and loss of domination of traditional trade routes, their position will get weaker. Won't happen for a while. But it will.
Ok, here's another map showing the empire and vassal/clients at 1503. Allies not included. The Nasrids are a in a weird position. They are quasi vassals because at the same time they're Castile's puppet as well as the Ottoman's newest vassal. Its... an awkward position but one that's too useful for anyone to seriously try to work against it (for now at least).
I'll do another map showing the apex of the empire and allies, along with the growth rate.
Deleted member 67076
Just for fun, here's a map showing the growth of the empire divided by reining monarch superimposed on Modern Day Borders to give a sense of scale.
Orange = The Ottoman Beylik at 1300
Yellow = The state after the death of Orhan I Ghazi
Light Green = After Murad's death in 1389
Green = After Bayezid's death
Dark Green = After Suleyman's death
Blue = After Orhan II's death
Dark Blue = Future acquisitions at some point in time. (Does not count for losses)
Orange = The Ottoman Beylik at 1300
Yellow = The state after the death of Orhan I Ghazi
Light Green = After Murad's death in 1389
Green = After Bayezid's death
Dark Green = After Suleyman's death
Blue = After Orhan II's death
Dark Blue = Future acquisitions at some point in time. (Does not count for losses)