TLIAW: A Court of Catherines

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Jonathan

Jonathan

HRH Cecily said:
see/know about 1504-1506?
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- Does Isabella of Castile still pass away leading to Joanna and Philip the Handsome, Archduke of Austria travelling to take their rightful place?
- Does Philip die in 1506?
- I know that these butterflies won’t affect the weather but will Martin Luther, aged 22, still vow to become a monk in a moment of terror as a result of a close lightning strike during a thunderstorm.
 

Kellan Sullivan

Jonathan said:
- Does Isabella of Castile still pass away leading to Joanna and Philip the Handsome, Archduke of Austria travelling to take their rightful place?
Click to expand...
Well, Isabel will still die, that much is certain. Her health was pretty much shot by the "triple tragedy" of Juan, Juan's stillborn daughter, her oldest daughter all dying on top of one another. Then losing Miguel da Paz as well. So I'm not sure she'll live far past OTL's date.

The question is whether Isabel changes her mind about her daughter's "mental state" or not. OTL, she stipulated in her will (as early as 1499 already) that IF Juana became heiress, then Fernando was to be a sort of "permanent caretaker". Once Juana was in Spain, Isabel changed her mind about it and acknowledged Juana as being fully cognisant.
Jonathan said:
- Does Philip die in 1506?
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If he's going u pagainst Nando? Probably thereabouts.

Although @HRH Cecily Beatriz seems a super unlikely name for the child (in all likelihood the OTL schedule of Phil-Juana's kids' names would simply be reshuffled, with the girl named "Maria" in honour of Phil's mom and Juana's sister). If you want to keep the OTL names, Margarethe/Marguerite is possible.
Jonathan said:
- I know that these butterflies won’t affect the weather but will Martin Luther, aged 22, still vow to become a monk in a moment of terror as a result of a close lightning strike during a thunderstorm.
Click to expand...
How about the lightning strike hits him instead? Whether he dies or not is up to the OP
 
Jonathan

Jonathan

Kellan Sullivan said:
Well, Isabel will still die, that much is certain. Her health was pretty much shot by the "triple tragedy" of Juan, Juan's stillborn daughter, her oldest daughter all dying on top of one another. Then losing Miguel da Paz as well. So I'm not sure she'll live far past OTL's date.

The question is whether Isabel changes her mind about her daughter's "mental state" or not. OTL, she stipulated in her will (as early as 1499 already) that IF Juana became heiress, then Fernando was to be a sort of "permanent caretaker". Once Juana was in Spain, Isabel changed her mind about it and acknowledged Juana as being fully cognisant.
Click to expand...
I know her health was bad before this date since the deaths of her son Prince John of Asturias in 1497, her mother Isabella of Portugal in 1496, and her daughter Princess Isabella of Asturias in 1498, but is it possible that with her daughter, Catherine having a child, Isabella is given a little boost.
Kellan Sullivan said:
If he's going u pagainst Nando? Probably thereabouts.

Although @HRH Cecily Beatriz seems a super unlikely name for the child (in all likelihood the OTL schedule of Phil-Juana's kids' names would simply be reshuffled, with the girl named "Maria" in honour of Phil's mom and Juana's sister). If you want to keep the OTL names, Margarethe/Marguerite is possible.
Click to expand...
“u pagainst Nando?”
Illness (or poisoning) may not happen this time around leading to a longer happier marriage and possibly another son to be born in Spain.
Kellan Sullivan said:
How about the lightning strike hits him instead? Whether he dies or not is up to the OP
Click to expand...
Or is he even in his home town? With butterflies fluttering around Europe, maybe he is away and carries on with his law degree and avoids religious issues altogether.
 
HRH Cecily

HRH Cecily

Great questions!
Jonathan said:
- Does Isabella of Castile still pass away leading to Joanna and Philip the Handsome, Archduke of Austria travelling to take their rightful place?
Click to expand...
Her health was already on the decline with the deaths of Juan and Isabella so I don't see her living that much longer. I think not having to worry about Catalina would have helped but it's not enough by its self. Instead of her OTL November 1504 death, here she lives in time to see a few more grandchildren, dying in hmm say, August 1505.
Jonathan said:
- Does Philip die in 1506?
Click to expand...
Still thinking on that. I almost think it might be best if Isabella outlived him but if circumstances are different, I doubt he'd die of typhoid. Maybe he can die in battle.
Kellan Sullivan said:
Although @HRH Cecily Beatriz seems a super unlikely name for the child (in all likelihood the OTL schedule of Phil-Juana's kids' names would simply be reshuffled, with the girl named "Maria" in honour of Phil's mom and Juana's sister). If you want to keep the OTL names, Margarethe/Marguerite is possible.
Click to expand...
I know it's not the most likely name but I did find a Beatriz in the Trastámara family tree going back aways and I do like to inject a bit of variety in, even if there are going to be a large number of Catherines floating around. I'll consider Margarethe if I need another girl's name.
Jonathan said:
- I know that these butterflies won’t affect the weather but will Martin Luther, aged 22, still vow to become a monk in a moment of terror as a result of a close lightning strike during a thunderstorm.
Click to expand...
Kellan Sullivan said:
How about the lightning strike hits him instead? Whether he dies or not is up to the OP
Click to expand...
Jonathan said:
Or is he even in his home town? With butterflies fluttering around Europe, maybe he is away and carries on with his law degree and avoids religious issues altogether.
Click to expand...
I haven't decided what to do with Luther yet.
 
Part Four
  • Index
    • HRH Cecily

    HRH Cecily

    Births, Deaths, and Marriages (1504 - 1506)​

    1504
    3 January 1504: birth of Henry Howard, son of Thomas Howard and Anne of York

    11 February 1504: birth of George Boleyn, son of Thomas Boleyn and Elizabeth Howard

    27 May 1504: marriage of John Stewart, Earl of Mar and Isabel Stewart

    9 September 1504: death of John Grey, 2nd Viscount Lisle

    11 October 1504: birth of Prince Valdemar of Denmark

    1505
    7 January 1505: birth of Infanta Isabel of Portugal

    25 March 1505: birth of Katherine Grey, Viscountess Lisle

    21 April 1505: birth of Princess Catherine of England

    9 July 1505: birth of Fernando, Archduke of Austria

    22 September 1505: birth of Edward Courtenay*, son of William Courtenay and Catherine of York

    1506
    28 June 1506: birth of Elizabeth Howard, daughter of Thomas Howard and Anne of York

    14 August 1506: birth of Infanta Catarina of Portugal

    17 November 1506: marriage of Germaine of Foix and Charles, Duke of Savoy


    *their second son of this name, the first having died in 1502
     
    Last edited:
  • Index
    • King of Danes

    King of Danes

    Who is Prince Valdemar the son of? Christina of Saxony would likely be too old to be his mother and Isabella of Austria would be too young
     
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