TLIAD: Meet The New Boss

Vatican City was left largely to its own devices when Italy fell to the Red Army. There was a certain sense of fait accompli, in that the papacy couldn't heavily criticise the Antwerp Pact or Soviet Union for obvious reasons. However, as liberalisation crept in, the papacy became bolder and Clement XV was the first French pope since the 14th century.

Yes, I can see the Communists leaving the Pope in place. With the conclave overwhelmingly made up of European Cardinals in the 1940s and those nations being almost exclusively communist, they'll be able to get somebody pliable elected. No Karol Wojtyla ITTL.

Which may lead to some interesting butterflies. With a Pope preaching that the downtrodden workers should rise up and lose their chains, Latin America is going to see a strange communist/catholic hybrid insurgency. The USA would have even more reason to back right wing dictators. There will be some such as Peron or the PRI in Mexico who might have something in common with the Eurocommunists. I doubt Castro would get anywhere near power.

There may be a break with Rome in the US catholic church, and this would be another hurdle for Joe P Kennedy in his presidential bid.

All in all, not a complete crapsack world, but not a nice place to live.

Regards

R
 
Which may lead to some interesting butterflies. With a Pope preaching that the downtrodden workers should rise up and lose their chains, Latin America is going to see a strange communist/catholic hybrid insurgency.

Interesting idea. ITTL Liberation Theology is going to be more mainstream in the Catholic Church.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
I'm back from a prolonged fishing trip to simply say Meadow, you've done it again. It was your 'I am Legend' TLIAD that convinced me to take the plunge and begin work on my own timelines, and yet again you've managed to create a piece that's both serious and ironic, a brilliantly written TLIAD that kept me entertained from start to finish!

For want of better words, well done!
 
I'm back from a prolonged fishing trip to simply say Meadow, you've done it again. It was your 'I am Legend' TLIAD that convinced me to take the plunge and begin work on my own timelines, and yet again you've managed to create a piece that's both serious and ironic, a brilliantly written TLIAD that kept me entertained from start to finish!

For want of better words, well done!

I'm very flattered. Writing is a joy, and to know that my work has led you to share in it in many ways makes me happy.

I already have at least two other TLIAD ideas - next time I have a completely free day (they're rare, even when unemployed) I will endeavour to try again.
 
I could see that the Northern Irish in Scotland leading the Scotts into a rebellion. UVF defending the highlands against the English...

If Scotland has a Independence referendum in TTL the Ulster influence will force them out
 
Thank you very much. The presidential absence has been filled.

To be perfectly honest: I don't know. I didn't give them much thought, partly because this is an interesting world and I wanted to leave it open for future expansion or possibly even other TLs set in the same universe.

Just read this overnight--you can thank Jonathan Edelstein; I checked up on what he's been reading lately to see what I might be missing.

I wonder what happened regarding space travel ITTL.

I could make a case either way--that is, the Soviet-dominated Old World could very plausibly have a strong and expansive (99 percent Soviet!) space program, with the Americans trying to play catch up sporadically.

Or--it might not be implausible for neither bloc to have many achievements to speak of.

This is a bit unlikely both because the development of basic missile technology seems almost inevitable and that gives the capability of orbiting at least small satellites, and because Russian culture reinforced by Marxist-Leninist progressivism makes the dream of space travel quite respectable and mainstream; a strong, rich and progressing USSR seems just about certain to have a space program and for it to have cultural importance throughout the bloc.

However, if you like I could make the case for how both the Russians and Americans get deterred by a sequence of plausible developments and decisions to simply not go there and not have ever got around to it even by 2014. It would be a devil's advocate sort of thing for me to do since I like the idea of space travel, but it can be done here.

For instance, the Azores Crisis seems at a glance and with ironic mirroring of OTL to be a missile crisis--but it might not be; Joe Kennedy might have been trying to put bombers there. Or both sides might have intercontinental missiles all right, but they are airbreathing cruise missiles. Or they have ICBMs but have agreed to limit them--if the Soviets have a much bigger economy to play with and talent pool to draw from, they might match OTL US achievements in making warheads smaller, and thus didn't develop missiles as big and capable as Korolev's OTL R-7. If Americans manage the same achievements in miniaturization we did OTL, the step from ICBM to orbital spacecraft might not be taken by either side. Given the Americans backing down in the Azores crisis and then a likely subsequent round of formal arms limitation agreements, the opportunity might never seem to be quite at hand whereas taking that step might be seen as too provocative.

I have to run now but I'm subscribing to see if more is done with this later, here or elsewhere---if you do start another TL spun off this one, could you be so kind as to put a notice of it here?
 
xz5d.png


The Man Who Won The War - and lost the next one

The actions taken by David Lloyd George in 1940 divide scholarly opinion worldwide even to this day. At the time, as German shells fell on London’s East End and Churchill lay dead in a destroyed railway carriage, it seemed to the grand old man of British politics that there was no other option. Of course, there was - to fight, fight and fight again. To never surrender to fascism. But this choice was, tragically, not acceptable to the man who, incredibly, was at the time Britain’s greatest living statesman.

However, even Lloyd George’s harshest critics accept that his actions - the visit to the King, formation of a government and immediate armistice negotiation were all motivated by a determination to spare Britain another destructive war. ‘The Man Who Won The War’ was committed to ending this one. But, in doing so, the Welsh Wizard became the Welsh Weasel.

The formation of the National Action Party in December 1940 saw Lloyd George, Harold Nicolson, J.F.C. Fuller and others form a cabinet, with Lloyd George moving into Number 10. The legacy of his predecessors was there for him to behold. The Plymouth Room still bore the garish, huge photograph of a triumphant-looking George Lansbury presiding over the sale of much of the British fleet, and the ironically-named London Armaments Treaty of 1938 hung on the opposing wall. Even the official portrait of Anthony Eden, dated January 1939, could not hide the young man’s sense of bewilderment. Finally, the half-finished wall in the garden of Downing Street (swiftly demolished by a team from the Reich Engineering Corps) stood as an eerie testament to Britain’s last ‘democratic’ Prime Minister.

The period of British history known as the Second Protectorate by supporters and detractors alike began in March 1941. With the King dead by his own hand (regardless of what conspiracists still say today, this is the truth of the matter) and the princesses on a submarine in the North Atlantic, the United Kingdom de facto became the Commonwealth of Great Britain (Northern Ireland had been incorporated into O’Duffy’s Irish State the month before). Lloyd George (who was at this point not quite the pawn of von Ribbentrop that he would become) was proclaimed Lord Protector by the considerably thinned-out House of Lords.

The Second Protectorate and....​


I'm not even done reading this post and I must say that this is breathtaking.

Because this is a TLIAD, I hope that this thrill will not leave me weeping on the banks of the rushing river as this craft sails away, complete and on fire and fading away into the distance...

Carpe Diem! I will defy my fear and glance at the page count so yeah.

But, electrifying stuff so far :):):)


Edit: Hm, nine pages!

Okay.

If it isn't 98 percent comments, then it won't be just a poignant morsel swallowed completely while I'm still beginning to savor the taste.

(It's not just lunchtime yet. I digress...)



Edit: (Looking at the flag from the OP...) Those are helicopters, aren't they?

Edit2: Cliffs of Dover!!! (Frisson.)
 
Last edited:

For what it's worth, I sure as f--- didn't miss it. Breathtaking.

Edit: I'm itching to go on a google-tangent on Stafford Cripps and perhaps look on youtube for something of him speaking, but I want to continue reading THIS. Wow.

(Edit2 This http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stafford_Cripps kind of alerted me to the depth of my knowledge gaps, but, hey.)
 
Last edited:
I just read all of this in one sitting. Amazing job! I can't believe you managed to write such an entertaining, imaginative, and unique timeline in such a short period of time.

By the way, perhaps I missed her name somewhere, but I think Barbra Castle would've made an incredibly interesting foil to Thatcher in this timeline.
 
For what it's worth, I sure as f--- didn't miss it. Breathtaking.

Edit: I'm itching to go on a google-tangent on Stafford Cripps and perhaps look on youtube for something of him speaking, but I want to continue reading THIS. Wow.

(Edit2 This http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stafford_Cripps kind of alerted me to the depth of my knowledge gaps, but, hey.)

Thank you very much, it's lovely to know people are still reading this. Let me know what you think of the rest!

I just read all of this in one sitting. Amazing job! I can't believe you managed to write such an entertaining, imaginative, and unique timeline in such a short period of time.

By the way, perhaps I missed her name somewhere, but I think Barbra Castle would've made an incredibly interesting foil to Thatcher in this timeline.

That's very kind, I'm glad you enjoyed the story. I did try to fit Barbara in somewhere, but given the failure of women to advance in any Soviet satellite it just seemed too much of a stretch to have a 1980s female British leader in this ATL.
 
Whats this about a revolution in Japan? That's gotta look weird. A communist revolution in the 1990s in hyper-capitalist Japan.


Great timeline by the way!
 
Whats this about a revolution in Japan? That's gotta look weird. A communist revolution in the 1990s in hyper-capitalist Japan.


Great timeline by the way!

Thanks. I'm not sure Japan necessarily went hyper-capitalist ITTL, as the whole world looks very different after WWII. As the US's sole major global trading partner, I guess American post-1960 isolationism hurt Japan a lot more than most countries, and eventually led to unrest and revolution. When the Soviet model seems to be working, it becomes a lot more plausible for the masses to demand it in their own countries.
 
*applause* lovely TL! The Communism here definitely has a very "British" flavor to it, and I loved the parallels you drew to OTL. :)
 
Thought it worth bumping this to say that Max Levitas, TTL's late 1970s Chief Secretary, turned 99 today IOTL. He's still lucent and well. No Pasaran.
 
Eeek, Commies.

Interesting that Portugal appears to be an exception to the Communist tide.

Portugal, the Swiss, and if those two white dots in Italy are not just my eyes being mean to me again, the Vatican City State and the Most Serene Republic of San Marino remain untainted. Majorca is also not colored red, so it may be free, ditto Elba, but apart from that and unless those are simply errors, Europe seems basically all Red from what I can see.
 
Portugal, the Swiss, and if those two white dots in Italy are not just my eyes being mean to me again, the Vatican City State and the Most Serene Republic of San Marino remain untainted. Majorca is also not colored red, so it may be free, ditto Elba, but apart from that and unless those are simply errors, Europe seems basically all Red from what I can see.

The islands were oversights, as was San Marino, but narratively the Vatican has not been occupied. It is, however, implied to be heavily influenced by the Soviet-controlled Italian Social Republic.
 
Top