TLIAD: Meet The New Boss
- Thread starter Meadow
- Start date
I knew you'd be the one to spot it. It's a TLIAD, doing silly things for the hell of it is encouraged. See also: delaying the Yom Kippur War for a year Because Butterflies.
Hope you're enjoying it, Andy.
Thande
Donor
I like the use of middle names for alternative-ness. I'm surprised we haven't seen Leonard Callaghan, but maybe he's too busy being People's Commissar for the Navy or something.
I realise it's meant to be a bit deliberately convergent as a joke, but would Israel even exist under the circumstances of TTL?
I'm guessing from the context that George Wallace was assassinated (and I recall earlier that JFK wasn't, so maybe he got all the imagery).
I realise it's meant to be a bit deliberately convergent as a joke, but would Israel even exist under the circumstances of TTL?
I'm guessing from the context that George Wallace was assassinated (and I recall earlier that JFK wasn't, so maybe he got all the imagery).
Wasn't it meant to be JFK's older brother? The one who died during the war historically?
Yeah, Joe Kennedy Jr. was elected US President in 1960, in lieu of his younger brother, and is the one who sparks TTL's version of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Yep. It is in FAT, but it's one of the most obvious butterflies from any WWII POD (he was killed in a training accident, much like Michael Benn incidentally). He's a bit of a hothead and not quite the leader he'd like to be ITTL, and ends up, as Kung Fucious said, getting in over his head in the Azores.
Wallace did indeed get a bullet from an angry young 'person of color'.
Israel probably would exist ITTL IMO, as the Soviets/British would have got Palestine back* and, after a more widespread Holocaust, the creation of a Jewish state is essentially inevitable. It might not necessarily be what we understand as Israel, though. A Levantine Republic, seen as illegitimate by Arab neighbours, might have been the target of the war.
*And that's assuming the Nazis ever bothered to occupy it - the war moved much faster toward the clash with the Soviets, so resources wouldn't be spent anywhere near North Africa now the Brits are out of the picture. It could be that Palestine was in a terrible state of civil war for about five years before some T-34s rolled up and the Red Army said 'right, stop it'.
I don't FaT deserves a monopoly on a handsome, well connected, veteran who almost certainly would have at least been a Democratic Nominee if he'd survived the war. The circumstances of his death are particularly avoidable when you consider that he was trying to bomb something the Allies had unknowingly already destroyed, the V3 'High Pressure Pump'. The gun is really AH-y in itself, and could have theoretically shelled London but had been rendered unusable when a British Tallboy bomb flew directly down it's long, mine-like, shaft killing everyone down there at the time and wrecking all the equipment. So the Allies went on bombing the burned out hole in the ground until they overran the place.
IIRC, he's also the US President who prosecutes the end of the Anglo-American/Nazi War in CalBear's TL (though that TL is more focused on the ground combat in Europe, so we don't get a whole lot of info on his presidency).
Thande
Donor
O, I wasn't saying he couldn't use it because FaT had, I was just playing off what Ed Costello said about not seeing Kagonovich used as a Soviet leader since FaT.
Oh I know, I was just trying to reassure Meadowman as he'd mentioned it.
Speaking of old Lazar, did the term 'Kaganovich Cocktails' come out of the WP invasion of London or had it already been baptised by someone else?
Oh I know, I was just trying to reassure Meadowman as he'd mentioned it.
Speaking of old Lazar, did the term 'Kaganovich Cocktails' come out of the WP invasion of London or had it already been baptised by someone else?
IOTL it originated in the Winter War in 1939 as Molotov Cocktails, of course, so that probably still happened ITTL. However, such a disparaging name is unlikely to have been allowed to enter the vocabulary of a Soviet-dominated Europe. When the T-62s come rumbling into Trafalgar Square, some wag remembers something a subversive history profressor once told him and, hey presto, history is made.
The next update will be up at some point tomorrow morning - it's now 1976 and as the TL goes up until the present day that means we've got *mumbles number* Chief Secretaries left. Thank you to everyone for reading so far, and do check back tomorrow at about 10am - the last updates will come thick and fast!
Orville_third
Banned
Is there a certain former aristocrat in the works for a future position?
(Alas, one of my favorite female Britons likely will not exist, as her parents were Estonian and White Russian refugees.)
(Alas, one of my favorite female Britons likely will not exist, as her parents were Estonian and White Russian refugees.)
I take it with Britain subdued, Stalin reinterpreted the German build-up on his borders and the fully-alert Red Army was able to take some steam out of the Wehrmacht's attack. While not making much of a difference for the Soviets immediately, over the longer term the Germans having to actually fight through the forces on the frontier region would have led to less damage done to the Soviets because the additional fighting would have worn the Germans out faster.
Very good work so far, you have another winner, gentlemen.
Just please don't use Tony Blair, as he was born after the POD.
With Britain a member of comecon, life would be very different. All those high rise apartments everywhere. If London was flattened, will there be some Great Hall of the People somewhere?
Also, has there been the same split between China and the USSR? Maybe a 'only Wallace could go to China' moment. A meeting between George Wallace and Mao Testung would be fun. Especially with a VP Curtis Lemay in the background.
What happened to the rest of the British Empire? I assume they largely went their own way after Britain was occupied by the Nazis. Did the Japanese just march into Singapore?
I'd imagine the USSR would occupy Iran, and Arabia after the War. This creates an energy problem for the USA in the 70s.
If France becomes communist, I assume that all the old colonies get "independence" under carefully groomed communist rulers. That deals with West and North Africa, but what about South Africa?
Is the USA fighting in Indo-China? After the USA-Japan war, the USA would occupy Japan, but would the latter develop into such a big economic power with European markets denied, and oil deliveries throttled back?
This sort of scenario has been bubbling around in my mind as the background for a novel. I imagined that the House of Commons would still be there, but all of the MPs would be from one party....
Regards
R
Just please don't use Tony Blair, as he was born after the POD.
With Britain a member of comecon, life would be very different. All those high rise apartments everywhere. If London was flattened, will there be some Great Hall of the People somewhere?
Also, has there been the same split between China and the USSR? Maybe a 'only Wallace could go to China' moment. A meeting between George Wallace and Mao Testung would be fun. Especially with a VP Curtis Lemay in the background.
What happened to the rest of the British Empire? I assume they largely went their own way after Britain was occupied by the Nazis. Did the Japanese just march into Singapore?
I'd imagine the USSR would occupy Iran, and Arabia after the War. This creates an energy problem for the USA in the 70s.
If France becomes communist, I assume that all the old colonies get "independence" under carefully groomed communist rulers. That deals with West and North Africa, but what about South Africa?
Is the USA fighting in Indo-China? After the USA-Japan war, the USA would occupy Japan, but would the latter develop into such a big economic power with European markets denied, and oil deliveries throttled back?
This sort of scenario has been bubbling around in my mind as the background for a novel. I imagined that the House of Commons would still be there, but all of the MPs would be from one party....
Regards
R