You need a stalling phase here.
The Tsar offers peace Britain makes an insane demand, Russia refuses. Or you need to detail the Russian offer of peace as being and have it being rejected for not offering enough.
TL: The War of Dogger Bank, or the Anglo-Russian War- Version 1 DISCONTINUED
- Thread starter WarlordGandhi
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The Tsar offers peace Britain makes an insane demand, Russia refuses. Or you need to detail the Russian offer of peace as being and have it being rejected for not offering enough.
By the time the Russians were offering negotiations, parliament was already making the decision to go to war, it was basically inevitable, but I see what you mean. I'll make an edit so it's clearer
Yep. This ruins everything France had hope to do. They wanted a alliance to deal with Germany, not go to war with Britain over the Russians fucked up.
If they do nothing, the Russian Empire is shell to the ground, and Paris is left with no allies. If they act, the UK AND Germans will attack them.
It is a lose-lose situation for them.
If they do nothing, the Russian Empire is shell to the ground, and Paris is left with no allies. If they act, the UK AND Germans will attack them.
It is a lose-lose situation for them.
If Rozhestvensky ordered all ships to disengage already in the morning, and the remains of the fleet were withdrawing in disarray towards the Baltic in the evening, why would the Kamchatka's captain endanger the ship and its crew by hanging back to shell a British port? It seems, well, unlikely under the circumstances, especially considering that the Kamchatka was a slow auxiliary repair ship that only had smaller-calibre guns. It should have nearly sat at the port itself to manage that much destruction in Hartlepool.
I agree with this. It appears that the British government is being really trigger-happy here, especially considering that the Royal Navy won the sorry engagement decisively and the Russians certainly lost more than the British.
The OTL Dogger Bank Incident came very close to a war, the Press were yelling their fury, the Fleet was at sea and the First Lord, who was battling pnuemonia was bedridden and when he saw how serious it was getting, Fisher went to Parliment to get them to step the fuck back.
The English are not being bloodthirsty, they are reacting as they probably would. Remember this is a time when England ruled the seas. Period. No if's, no but's, no maybes. And a Russian warship, attacked a British one, on the open sea. With the people of the tme being idiots and loving stuff like national honour and the like, an insult like this could NOT be abided. If OTL shelling fishing boats by mistake was enough to get the two on the brink (especially when the Russians said they did nothing wrong and it was Japanese warships they engaged, and the Russian Admiral point blank refused to accept blame).
But here you've got a Russian warship firing on an English one in an unprovoked attack. Yeah that'll lead to war with the politics and mindset of the time.
The English are not being bloodthirsty, they are reacting as they probably would. Remember this is a time when England ruled the seas. Period. No if's, no but's, no maybes. And a Russian warship, attacked a British one, on the open sea. With the people of the tme being idiots and loving stuff like national honour and the like, an insult like this could NOT be abided. If OTL shelling fishing boats by mistake was enough to get the two on the brink (especially when the Russians said they did nothing wrong and it was Japanese warships they engaged, and the Russian Admiral point blank refused to accept blame).
But here you've got a Russian warship firing on an English one in an unprovoked attack. Yeah that'll lead to war with the politics and mindset of the time.
Thing is, though, that if Russia is seen as ready to pay decent reparations and generally accept the blame for the attack, and if Britain is seen as making outrageous demands the Russians can't accept in good faith and then goes to war when Russia refuses, the opinion in other major nations might be more positive towards Russia than Britain. Britain may rule the waves, but it is not the only major power in Europe or the world after all. Surely also the British government could understand that being seen as too gung-ho about a war with the Russians may harm their relations with others, France foremost.
Like I pointed out above, one major reason for the British people and the press being up in arms, the shelling of Hartlepool by the auxiliary repair ship Kamchatka, seems somewhat unlikely and far-fetched under the circumstances as it is.
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The inabilty of the Russian fleet to meet its end at Tsushima will have far reaching consequences for naval doctrine.
The performance of IJN armoured cruisers at that battle was a major impetus for developing the battlecruiser, and for the idea that such ships could fight in the battle line.
Additionally the overwhelming victory at Tsushima played a part in convincing the Japanese that they had surpassed the British. (Along with RN failure to achieve a similar result at Jutland a decade later)
Without that, and with direct British assistance against the Russians, it may lessen tge idea that Japan is capable of carving out its own Empire out of the European ones. Thus posdibly prolonging anglo-japanese alliance.
The performance of IJN armoured cruisers at that battle was a major impetus for developing the battlecruiser, and for the idea that such ships could fight in the battle line.
Additionally the overwhelming victory at Tsushima played a part in convincing the Japanese that they had surpassed the British. (Along with RN failure to achieve a similar result at Jutland a decade later)
Without that, and with direct British assistance against the Russians, it may lessen tge idea that Japan is capable of carving out its own Empire out of the European ones. Thus posdibly prolonging anglo-japanese alliance.
Russia isn't dumb, they'll offer peace and accept whatever demands the British make no matter how draconian. They know there's no way they beat both Britain and Japan. The war probably lasts a week. Neither side wants to invade Afghanistan at this point.
Russia pays a huge indemnity, publicly admits its guilt, apologizes profusely and offers the balls of everyone involved in the debacle on a silver platter to the British. The Japanese get a big cheque, a free hand in Korea, all of the the Manchurian railways and all of Sakhalin, and may be everything East of the Amur River. The Japanese find out it pays to be friends with the British. The French are mortified and the Germans throw the wildest party anyone has ever seen.
Russia pays a huge indemnity, publicly admits its guilt, apologizes profusely and offers the balls of everyone involved in the debacle on a silver platter to the British. The Japanese get a big cheque, a free hand in Korea, all of the the Manchurian railways and all of Sakhalin, and may be everything East of the Amur River. The Japanese find out it pays to be friends with the British. The French are mortified and the Germans throw the wildest party anyone has ever seen.
Donald Reaver
Donor
Every British sailor currently in Japan gets blinding drunk with all the free booze being offered them.
The Brita could get Draconian enough to scare off the Russians but I reckon there's a month there of back and forth before war breaks out.
Look at ww1, there's a month between assassination and war.
The British did lose a Battleship,that is an insult to British pride.If Rozhestvensky ordered all ships to disengage already in the morning, and the remains of the fleet were withdrawing in disarray towards the Baltic in the evening, why would the Kamchatka's captain endanger the ship and its crew by hanging back to shell a British port? It seems, well, unlikely under the circumstances, especially considering that the Kamchatka was a slow auxiliary repair ship that only had smaller-calibre guns. It should have nearly sat at the port itself to manage that much destruction in Hartlepool.
I agree with this. It appears that the British government is being really trigger-happy here, especially considering that the Royal Navy won the sorry engagement decisively and the Russians certainly lost more than the British.
Butterfly#1 future British warships will have superior magazine protection.
DK Brown in the Grand Fleet also confirms that by 1905 all ships above destroyer size had been fitted with wireless
Interesting if semi controversial start. France is going to scramble to make new alliances and seek others who might wish to be her Friend. Russia may offer but delays on getting details of the battle from non British sources may result in the British declaration of War. Russia will either have to capitulate or scramble for War.
Her fleet has attacked TWO separate countries in the span of a few weeks. Many countries might just believe that Russia is mad and needs to be put down. Plus they might want to snip off portians for themselves.
Her fleet has attacked TWO separate countries in the span of a few weeks. Many countries might just believe that Russia is mad and needs to be put down. Plus they might want to snip off portians for themselves.
The only question is, what's the real opportunity...
Deal with France while it's distracted, ally with Britain and fight noone, kick Russia while it's down, just vaguely threaten someone since they can't afford a war? All of them could work, but you got to pick.
Germany always wanted to push Russian borders back at this time. The Russian Military will be even more backward, and lacking serious reform that came after OTL 1905 Revolution.
That was both sides gunning for war, not one side doing everything in its power to avert it.