I think you mean Genro rather than Daimyo
Otherwise...democratic Japan is always good. Hopefully sufficiently democratic that things aren't as bad as OTL for Korea...
Thank you! Ill make an edit
TL: The War of Dogger Bank, or the Anglo-Russian War- Version 1 DISCONTINUED
- Thread starter WarlordGandhi
- Start date
Just caught up. The Japanification agenda isn't likely to work as well as you say, at least in Korea and Manchuria. Those two regions in 1900 had about 15 million people each, so two thirds of the contemporary population of Japan altogether, and very distinct cultures that go back thousands of years. There aren't enough Japanese to displace them physically, and not only will they not choose assimilation, but Showa Japan won't offer such a choice to them. One thing I noticed in Japanese colonial policies in Korea IOTL is that there was this internal contradiction in their attitudes towards the Koreans: on the one hand, they tried to stamp out as much of Korean culture as they could, replacing their language and customs and imposing Japanese ones instead, trying to erase those sources of differentiation between the two cultures. But at the same time, they also enforced the distinction between Japanese and Korean through official discrimination and sabotage of Korean-led efforts to develop their own industry and economy. No matter how much they were forced to ape Japanese customs, Koreans would never be allowed the same social dignity that ethnic Japanese enjoyed. There hasn't been enough time or any reason ITTL for this Japanese chauvinism to change, but that basic contradiction between erasing differences and accentuating them means that assimilation efforts are doomed to failure, and that'll be a recurring source of tension. And compare this situation to Ireland, where the English to Irish population ratio was several times more favorable to the English and they had hundreds of years to stamp out Irish culture, and yet they still didn't succeed either. I don't think this project will be any more successful in the medium to long run. Brute force can maintain the status quo for a while, but this isn't any more sustainable than other imperial projects going on at the time.
Oriental Troubles
My apologies for the lack of updates for the last six months but I've simply not have had enough time due to school and work obligations. However, I have just found the time so here is the long overdues next update!
Oriental Troubles
Following the Boxer rebellion and the Foreign Intervention in China, the Qing Dynasty saw its grip weaken on China. Although Dowager Empress Cixi attempted to prolong Qing rule by implemented radical reforms much like the ones she supressed several years earlier, these reforms were poorly implemented and were not enough to quench dissent within the Qing. However, fortunately for her, Cixi would not live to see the end of the Qing Dynasty.
In fact, her death was the catalyst for the collapse of Qing. A strike in Guandong following the death of Dowager Empress Cixi on November 15th 1908 quickly turned violent, while the Qing government was effectively paralysed from Cixi’s death. Revolutionary leader Sun Yixian called for the “people to retake China from the barbarians” and the uprising spread throughout Guangdong province, fuelled by popular dissent against the Qing. The Tongmenghui organised further revolts in Sichuan province and Hubei province. Qing Military units began to defect and declared the Qing Government to be illegitimate. By March of 1909, the Republican revolt had spread across Southern China.
The Qing, fearing for their rule, appointed the famous General Yuan Shikai. Yuan had commanded his “New Army” against the foreign interventionists during the Boxer Rebellion and won the few victories the Qing saw during the Boxer Rebellion and as such commanded much respect amongst China. The Qing appointed him commander of the Qing army and promised him the position of Prime Minister if he crushed the southern rebellion. However, Sun Yixian, having arrived in Guandong in December from Hawaii, offered Yuan Shikai the position of presidency in a post-Qing government. Yuan accepted the offer, and with their empire falling around them Dowager Empress Longyu and the infant Puyi officially abdicated on the 24th of May and fled to Japanese controlled Manchuria.
Yuan Shikai was officially sworn in as President of the newly elected National Assembly on the 1st of June, and initially ruled from Nanjing in an uneasy coalition with the Guomindong (successors of the Tongmenhui). However, Yuan aimed to further his own power and by late 1910 had largely orchestrated a full takeover of the government using the military as his base of power. The National Assembly was dissolved and replaced by the Council of State, merely a puppet of Yuan, and he majorly expanded his dictatorial powers, culminating in the Council of State crowning Yuan as Emperor of China, under the era name of Zhèngyì (正义, meaning Righteous) on the 1st of October 1914.
Sun Yixian, in exile in Japan, called for a second revolution, sparking a revolt in southern China once again. Zhengyi and Republican forces clashed and met in stalemate, resulting in a ceasefire between the Republicans and the Zhengyi. An official peace was never agreed on between the two parties, while Sun Yixian formed a new government out of the Guomindong with its power base in Guandong, while the Zhengyi Emperor moved his capital to Beijing, and warlords in Yunnan, Sichuan and eastern provinces declared independence from either government.
The Chinese Revolution of 1909 ultimately saw China being split into two hostile governments, one a self-styled monarchy and the other a republican Government.
As always, constructive criticism is much appreciated!
Oriental Troubles
Following the Boxer rebellion and the Foreign Intervention in China, the Qing Dynasty saw its grip weaken on China. Although Dowager Empress Cixi attempted to prolong Qing rule by implemented radical reforms much like the ones she supressed several years earlier, these reforms were poorly implemented and were not enough to quench dissent within the Qing. However, fortunately for her, Cixi would not live to see the end of the Qing Dynasty.
In fact, her death was the catalyst for the collapse of Qing. A strike in Guandong following the death of Dowager Empress Cixi on November 15th 1908 quickly turned violent, while the Qing government was effectively paralysed from Cixi’s death. Revolutionary leader Sun Yixian called for the “people to retake China from the barbarians” and the uprising spread throughout Guangdong province, fuelled by popular dissent against the Qing. The Tongmenghui organised further revolts in Sichuan province and Hubei province. Qing Military units began to defect and declared the Qing Government to be illegitimate. By March of 1909, the Republican revolt had spread across Southern China.
The Qing, fearing for their rule, appointed the famous General Yuan Shikai. Yuan had commanded his “New Army” against the foreign interventionists during the Boxer Rebellion and won the few victories the Qing saw during the Boxer Rebellion and as such commanded much respect amongst China. The Qing appointed him commander of the Qing army and promised him the position of Prime Minister if he crushed the southern rebellion. However, Sun Yixian, having arrived in Guandong in December from Hawaii, offered Yuan Shikai the position of presidency in a post-Qing government. Yuan accepted the offer, and with their empire falling around them Dowager Empress Longyu and the infant Puyi officially abdicated on the 24th of May and fled to Japanese controlled Manchuria.
Sun Yixian, in exile in Japan, called for a second revolution, sparking a revolt in southern China once again. Zhengyi and Republican forces clashed and met in stalemate, resulting in a ceasefire between the Republicans and the Zhengyi. An official peace was never agreed on between the two parties, while Sun Yixian formed a new government out of the Guomindong with its power base in Guandong, while the Zhengyi Emperor moved his capital to Beijing, and warlords in Yunnan, Sichuan and eastern provinces declared independence from either government.
The Chinese Revolution of 1909 ultimately saw China being split into two hostile governments, one a self-styled monarchy and the other a republican Government.
As always, constructive criticism is much appreciated!
Last edited:
Pretty interesting developments, though I expected the Qing Dynasty to have started a second war with Japan over Manchuria.
Strong flavour of 'What the Hell...?'...
...The Russians are going to lose Kronstad.
...The Kaiser must be laughing - and mobilising to rip off Poland, Byelorus, Ukraine etc.
The French will be agonising as they could get hammered if they take on the Royal Navy.
Maybe we get a Greater Finland as a British Protectorate?
'Interesting Times' in the Chinese manner...
...The Russians are going to lose Kronstad.
...The Kaiser must be laughing - and mobilising to rip off Poland, Byelorus, Ukraine etc.
The French will be agonising as they could get hammered if they take on the Royal Navy.
Maybe we get a Greater Finland as a British Protectorate?
'Interesting Times' in the Chinese manner...
An' you had been whaur I hae been...
...Ye wadna be sae cantie-o...
My previous post after reading Page One and this post after reading the anthems argument, with this edit at my completion of reading this. Still find this TL a bit far-fetched, to be honest, as if it's in a hurry to get to where it wants to go. There are infill stories to be told...
...Ye wadna be sae cantie-o...
My previous post after reading Page One and this post after reading the anthems argument, with this edit at my completion of reading this. Still find this TL a bit far-fetched, to be honest, as if it's in a hurry to get to where it wants to go. There are infill stories to be told...
Last edited:
Closing remarks
Hey all, after being unable to continue this timeline due to school, I have finally had the time to revisit and continue this timeline.
However, upon rereading my work and comments within this thread, I have concluded that I failed to come up with a realistic timeline and instead attempted to reach a conclusion that I wanted.
As such, I will be doing a version 2 of this TL, in a timeline format rather than a chapter format to make it easier for me to flesh out details and to make it more realistic
Here is the link to the version 2!
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...nk-or-the-anglo-russian-war-version-2.454928/
However, upon rereading my work and comments within this thread, I have concluded that I failed to come up with a realistic timeline and instead attempted to reach a conclusion that I wanted.
As such, I will be doing a version 2 of this TL, in a timeline format rather than a chapter format to make it easier for me to flesh out details and to make it more realistic
Here is the link to the version 2!
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...nk-or-the-anglo-russian-war-version-2.454928/
Glad you have realized that. Though I think it would be more realistic to have Doggerbank involve the Germans rather than the British, mainly because of who is in charge.
Involving the Germans? That’s an interesting thought, would you care to elaborate?
Well before the Baltic Fleet reached the infamous Dogger Bank Sea, they were supplied by Hamburg Amerika for their journey. But given the Russian's Admirals...paranoia, let's say he sets off an incident involving the German fleet doing a patrol around the Baltic sea where they were moving. Throw Wilhelm II's inferiority complex into the mix, then it would start some nasty fireworks. Especially if they can persuade the Balkan nations to join with promises of the carving up the remaining Turkish Balkan territory.
Certainly interested in how British Prime Minister at the Time Arthur Balfour and his party react to these developments, as they are in alliance with both Japan and France.
Hmmmm that certainly is an interesting POD for another timeline!
Hmmmm that certainly is an interesting POD for another timeline!
Yeah it is. Though this actually came of trying of think of ways to accelerate Winston Curchill's career at the time. Since I could see him calling for war on the basis of clamping down on the growing German power.