TL: The 4th International : Rosa’s Reich

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Allied Resistance III
Arriving at the Italian Parliament building in downtown Rome on the night of April 3rd, Ludovico D’Aragona rushed through the front doors, and downstairs to a section of the building that had a collection of separate committee meeting rooms.

Knowing that a subdivision of the Italian Socialist Party were holding a meeting in one of them, he quickly made is way down the hallway, swinging open the door once he arrived

“Egidio!” he yelled to the startled meeting members as he threw his notebooks on the table.*

“We have a problem.”

Egidio Gennari, leader of the party and close friend of Ludovico, immediately called a halt to the meeting.

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“Yes yes, I know Ludovico. The strike in Turin is what you’re talking about, correct? I and the committee members were just about to start talking about it.” Gennari responded.

“No, my friend. It’s not the strike I’m here to tell you about, it’s who involved.” said Ludovico.

“Who? Malatesta? Gramsci? These are the usual suspects, my friend. There is no cause for alarm.” said a relaxed Gennari

“Bela…Kun.” said Ludovico.

Silence fell upon the meeting room.
“Bela...the Hungarian?” Gennari asked.* “No, why would he involve himself here?”

“I’ve no idea Genarri,” said Ludovico “But we need to issue a statement on this.”

Reclining back in his chair Genarri began to contemplate his options.
While strike itself was little political consequence to both his and his party’s majority status in the parliament, the mere idea that foreign revolutionaries were somehow involved in the uprising could not only pre-empt a nationalist backlash from all economic classes in Italy, but it might even split his party down factionalist lines.

Deferring to some of his party compatriots who were at the meeting, he asked them for opinions.

“No matter who is involved in this strike, we must show solidarity with the worker’s cause.” said one of his advisers.

“Not at the risk of what we have politically gained here in Rome,” yelled another.
Genarri knew that whatever course he took, there was a chance he could either risk losing the popular support he and his party enjoyed, or risk losing the confidence that he and his party also depended on to remain recognized by the middle and upper classes.

Though, after a few more moments of thought, the sympathetic socialist knew what he and thus his party must do.
“Regardless of the implications, we must as a unified voice, come out in favor of this strike,” said Genarri as he stood up at the front of the table.

“Not doing so would betray the ideals and values of our movement.”

Several advisers stood up and began to clap Gennari’s decision while a several others walked out in silence.

Turning to his long time friend Ludovico, he immediately asked him to fetch a few reporters from the Avanti! newspaper.

Let’s let the Turin working classes know that Rome and the Italian Socialist Party stands with them.

In Turin, on the morning of April 4th, with news of Genari’s support of the strike, workers by the thousands started to flock to the ranks of the strike. Several additional factories were occupied throughout the day.

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Still trying to agitate and organize the Italian Fiat plant workers to coalesce with his own socialist ideals, Bela Kun and his cadre of Hungarian revolutionaries began to draw the ire of Italian socialists who grew angry with his presence and his seeming plots to cultivate a personal power base for his own revolution.
Rumors of an impending plot to assassinate him start to spread among the strikers.

Meanwhile in Danzig, Radek’s urban battle plan to stall the inevitable crushing of the dockworker’s strike began to falter.
Two of the three defensive fulcrums that he ordered the local strikers to set up in the central and eastern sections of the city had collapsed from Rozwadowski’s assault, with the third being encircled and shelled relentlessly.

Taking in the wounded and fleeing workers into his make-shift headquarters, Karl Radek, his KPD cadre, along with local Polish KPPR supporters frantically began to plan additional defensive tactics.

“We must withdraw the strikers before they are consumed by Rozwadowski’s forces and set up a defensive perimeter around the docks.” suggested one of the KPPR officials.

“To only have them fall? No, we must withdraw them and have the strikers take defensive positions in the dryworks where we are.” interjected one of the KPD officers.

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“If our goal is to stall Warsaw’s advance, we must make use of what little manpower we have left.”

Karl Radek, stressed and gritting his teeth, spoke.

“Comrades, there will be no submission and no surrender.” Radek said.

“If..if we hold to this truth, and we hold faith that we will not be abandoned by our comrades in Berlin or in Moscow, *then we have nothing to fear.”
Turning to his KPD comrade, he immediately gave approval to the plan of withdrawing the strikers to dryworks.

“I only hope Rosa does not abandon all that we have achieved here in Danzig.” Radek thought to himself.

As night fell upon April 4th, back in Berlin Paul Levi, whose journey from Moscow to Berlin was significantly sped up due to the lack of need to travel undercover from Russia, rushed into Rosa’s KPD Headquarters office with the signed alliance document in hand.

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Bursting into a meeting between her, Otto Strasser, Karl Kautsky and Kurt Eisner, he threw the paper onto the meeting table.

“History has been made in this document, comrades.” a confident Paul Levi announced loudly.
“And as our new allies in Moscow plan to do, we are to publically announce this agreement tomorrow morning, Versailles negotiations be damned.

All eyes turned then turned to Rosa.
She knew, deep down, that she stood upon a diplomatic precipice.
Karl Radek, who she knew was in dire straits in Danzig and was in critical need of a relief force to prevent his utter annihilation, had successfully secured an alliance with the Polish communists. *

Otto Strasser, Karl Kautsky and Kurt Eisner, together convinced that Strasser’s revolutionary plan to grant implement national land reform by executing a Guns-for-Land policy specifically designed to co-opt the outstanding Reichswehr troops into the fledgling KPD state structure, *were putting the finishing touches on a policy that sought the creation of loyal Red Army for the German Socialist Union.

“And now, with Paul Levi presenting this document that made official and alliance between Berlin and Moscow, we truly gamble all that we have,” Rosa thought to herself.
No matter. It’s time for the political parties of Europe who represent the working classes to bring revolution to the capitalist’s doorstep.”

Standing up and addressing her comrades, two of whom she had been allies since the early days of the Sparticist Uprising, Rosa spoke.

“Tomorrow morning will be the day we, not just as comrades, not just as a party, but a movement guiding by the ideologies of freedom and egalitarianism, step beyond the veil of bourgeois diplomacy. You only have to look up on the activities of the Polish junta or Western Europe’s support of the White counter-revolutionaries in Russia to see the threats we may face here in Germany.” Rosa said.

“But look to the memory of Karl Liebknecht, and any comrade that has perished in the name of our cause. If we remain resolute in our decision making and remain steadfast in our determination for working class liberation, we will prevail against any threat the capitalists may throw at us.”
Clapping in unison, the three men cheered.

Brimming with confidence, Rosa immediately shouted to her secretary to fetch a reporter from Die Rote Fanhe.

On the morning of April 5th, 1920, the alliance, along with the land reform policy, was announced.

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Sorry if i'm blunt but in term of italian politics this scenario is realistic like an African American becoming president of the United States after Wilson.

Unity will be found when hell will litteraly fronze...expecially during this event, the idea that Italy will not have a prime minister for two months is...sorry ASB and Bela Kun will be arrested the moment he will try to make a single wawe and in general will be a divisive factor in the left.
 
Sorry if i'm blunt but in term of italian politics this scenario is realistic like an African American becoming president of the United States after Wilson.

Unity will be found when hell will litteraly fronze...expecially during this event, the idea that Italy will not have a prime minister for two months is...sorry ASB and Bela Kun will be arrested the moment he will try to make a single wawe and in general will be a divisive factor in the left.

Yes yes. I hear you. Give it time. I have so much stuff to cover minut details get lost in the narrative.

Spoiler alert: there will massive fallout for the Italian Socialist Party due to Genarri's decision.
 
Yes yes. I hear you. Give it time. I have so much stuff to cover minut details get lost in the narrative.

Spoiler alert: there will massive fallout for the Italian Socialist Party due to Genarri's decision.

Yes, a brief civil war followed by the army putting all the socialist leadership at the wall.

It's that the most probable result of such event will be the various delegates fighting each other...litteraly, expecially during this event as the Turin strike was not supported by the national leaderships that advised agaisnt.
 
Yes, a brief civil war followed by the army putting all the socialist leadership at the wall.

It's that the most probable result of such event will be the various delegates fighting each other...litteraly, expecially during this event as the Turin strike was not supported by the national leaderships that advised agaisnt.

Not sure about a civil war.. but a complete split within the party? Sure, especially considering other left wing parties will be quick to capitalize on Genarri's blunder. And thats not even mentioning outliers like Mussolini's blackshirts who may get an ever bigger swell of public support if Bela's attempted participation is discovered.
 
Not sure about a civil war.. but a complete split within the party? Sure, especially considering other left wing parties will be quick to capitalize on Genarri's blunder. And thats not even mentioning outliers like Mussolini's blackshirts who may get an ever bigger swell of public support if Bela's attempted participation is discovered.

Without a prime minister to rein him, the King and the rest of the goverment will be scared enough to send the army if the socialist just appear to be on the verge of a revolution...and this will probably create the scenario that will try to avert.
There will be some unit refusing and revolting, there will be fight and deaths but it will be over quickly as the great part of the army is behind the King and the socialist revolutionaries don't have the support of the majority of the population.

If things remain relatively calm (in general sense), sure the socialist party will divide itself in various current...while this can help Benny in the short time, there is also the factor that without the big socialist party or the possibility of a left revolution lessened, the support for the Fascist will be much less in the middle and high class and the goverment will be more prone to answer with lead at any attempt of marching on Rome if there is a much decreased fear of socialist revolution.
 
Sorry - must be missing something. Where in that article does it mention that Kun and Terracini "were actually pretty close friends"? I was under the impression that they didn't know each other but am more than happy to be 'educated'.

Not sure why Kun would end up in Italy as opposed to (where he actually did end up OTL) Vienna, Austria ?
And just on the "several junior revolutionaries" who (in your TL) did end up in Vienna - I really don't think they would resort to 'terrorist' tactics against a third party. I could see them doing so against the Horthy regime (or the Romanians etc) but they would face opposition from their own comrades. For Marxists the question is, do such tactics involve and mobilise the masses in their own liberation? The answer is no.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Béla_Kun

In March 1918, in Moscow, Kun co-founded the Hungarian Group of the Russian Communist Party (the predecessor to the Hungarian Communist Party). He travelled widely, including to Petrograd and Moscow. He came to know Vladimir Lenin there, but inside the party he promoted ultra-radical left-wing political opposition to Lenin and the mainstream Bolsheviks. Kun and his friends (such as the Italian Umberto Terracini and the Hungarian Mátyás Rákosi), aggregated around Grigory Zinoviev or Karl Radek; instead of Lenin's pragmatism, they espoused and advertised the politics of "revolutionary offensive by any means". Lenin often called them "kunerists".

I provided the wrong link.
And to your second point, to me it makes more sense that the group might scatter after the end of such a violent crackdown. I mean, it's quite implausible to think that hundreds of defeated revolutionary Hungarians would remain unified after such a collapse and all travel to a single place anyway.

And to the point about the junior agitators' activities in Vienna, why wouldn't they try to incite internal calamity there? Trying to bring about a friendly regime in the northeast could not only shelter their "government in exile" but may even create a future situation where a counter-strike by a communist Austria against what ever government rises out of Budapest is possible.

In addition, as exemplified by that chapter, the Austrian communists are deeply divided over their failed coup in 1918 as well as the complete loss of working class support the party has endured.
These type of terrorist activities may, in the mind of the Hungarian communists, do a lot to draw lines in the sand (so to speak) for the Austrian left wingers.
In such a case, the real revolutionaries will emerge and may side with the Hungarians, as will those who seek less revolutionary means to accomplish their political goals, thus speaking out against such actions.

And then, of course there's always the Thule Society remnants hiding out in the country side.
 
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Also, passive US support for the Whites resulted in the Seattle General Strike IOTL, I can't imagine that active military support for Polish militarism would be a great idea. Also what about the French mutinies. I imagine that they will be worse when the French are occupying territory of a country like Germany. They are being used as pawns in an anti communist crusade.

This is a good point.
Regarding the US' and subsequently Wilson's potential actions (no spoilers, sry) in addressing Poland's advance into the Ukraine, you may see a Seattle Strike on steroids, especially once the Moscow-Berlin alliance is announced.
In addition, the muntines are almost surely to be worse than IOTL per your point. But then again, once the red alliance goes public, who knows how this might effect the French soldiers.
 
This is a good point.
Regarding the US' and subsequently Wilson's potential actions (no spoilers, sry) in addressing Poland's advance into the Ukraine, you may see a Seattle Strike on steroids, especially once the Moscow-Berlin alliance is announced.
In addition, the muntines are almost surely to be worse than IOTL per your point. But then again, once the red alliance goes public, who knows how this might effect the French soldiers.

As i already pointed, the strike in Seattle was more due to local economic reason than to support the communist, sure a certain number done it but they were the minority. Protest for a longer military involvment on the russian civil war will be probably originated by war wariness and the general isolationism of the american politics of the time; while simple logistic support will be much more acceptable.

Regarding the French mutinies, if you are referring to the one happened in 1917 at their origin there was the failure of the Nivelle Offensive as it was heralded as the move to end the war and the massive loss in that event and before.
The simple occupation of Germany, is irritating, maybe will cause a lower morale but surely not involve any serious combat or deprivation by the entente soldiers; so i greatly doubt that we will have that kind of revolt...expecially due to the fact that at the moment sympathies for the local German population are extremely low.

Better not overstimate the grasp the communist or the general left had on the army and the population of the rest of Europe (and America).
 
Protest for a longer military involvment on the russian civil war will be probably originated by war wariness and the general isolationism of the american politics of the time; while simple logistic support will be much more acceptable.

Yes, this is what I mean.
And both this, as well as the economic imperatives, will coalesce together into what I think will be a worse Seattle Strike.

Regarding the French mutinies, if you are referring to the one happened in 1917 at their origin there was the failure of the Nivelle Offensive as it was heralded as the move to end the war and the massive loss in that event and before.
The simple occupation of Germany, is irritating, maybe will cause a lower morale but surely not involve any serious combat or deprivation by the entente soldiers; so i greatly doubt that we will have that kind of revolt...expecially due to the fact that at the moment sympathies for the local German population are extremely low.

Better not overstimate the grasp the communist or the general left had on the army and the population of the rest of Europe (and America).

Well, consider for a moment the amount of land were talking about here.
ITTL, France occupies around 100,000 km2 of German territory. That's a massive difference compared to just the Ruhr and the Saarland.
Quelling resistance in these areas, as well as garrisoning enough troops to ensure proper resources are extracted, is going to be a burden on the war weary military establishment.
And this without the massive Ruhr Uprising (80,000 German workers IOTL) even occurring yet. (may potentially happen here but who knows)

So all these things combined is definitely putting far more stress on Clemenceau to seek, at least a long term solution to the problem of outright occupation of hostile, revolutionary territory.
 
Well, consider for a moment the amount of land were talking about here.
ITTL, France occupies around 100,000 km2 of German territory. That's a massive difference compared to just the Ruhr and the Saarland.
Quelling resistance in these areas, as well as garrisoning enough troops to ensure proper resources are extracted, is going to be a burden on the war weary military establishment.
And this without the massive Ruhr Uprising (80,000 German workers IOTL) even occurring yet. (may potentially happen here but who knows)

Occupation duty are totally different from trench life and offensive wwI style; even if low morale and some protest will be an issue something akin to the 1917 mutinies are not credible.
Plus whatever resistance happen in the occupation zone, i think that people at the moment have more important problem to resolve like obtain food, job and food and at the moment all come through the entente, so massive resistance will be a thing for the future.
Even OTL the passive resistance in the Rurh quickly collapsed without support of the rest of Germany and here Rosa goverment is even in a worst situation.

If the Ruhr Uprising happen it will be ended in short order and will be so onesided that it will not even funny; one thing is figthing the Freikorps another a true army, full equipped and trained that already control the territory.

In general while the occupation will take his hit on the war weary population of France (and the army), it's not even comparable at an active war, the sympathies of the Germans is basically non existent and more importantly all know that's a temporary thing till a Treaty is signed.
The base for massive mutines like the 1917 are not here, and even in OTL the army simple refused to launch other offensive and remained on the defensive not attempted some revolution.

Regarding the Hungarian, well there will be a mix of being tired, limited resources and territory not familiar and probably hostile to deter any serious terrorist attempt; hell the division on the left mean that a lof snitches will exist.
 
Occupation duty are totally different from trench life and offensive wwI style; even if low morale and some protest will be an issue something akin to the 1917 mutinies are not credible.
Plus whatever resistance happen in the occupation zone, i think that people at the moment have more important problem to resolve like obtain food, job and food and at the moment all come through the entente, so massive resistance will be a thing for the future.

True, that being said.... You may see the populace really not being friendly to French troops, Colonial or otherwise. Even if we just go on grounds of socialism and capitalism....
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Béla_Kun



I provided the wrong link.
And to your second point, to me it makes more sense that the group might scatter after the end of such a violent crackdown. I mean, it's quite implausible to think that hundreds of defeated revolutionary Hungarians would remain unified after such a collapse and all travel to a single place anyway.

And to the point about the junior agitators' activities in Vienna, why wouldn't they try to incite internal calamity there? Trying to bring about a friendly regime in the northeast could not only shelter their "government in exile" but may even create a future situation where a counter-strike by a communist Austria against what ever government rises out of Budapest is possible.

In addition, as exemplified by that chapter, the Austrian communists are deeply divided over their failed coup in 1918 as well as the complete loss of working class support the party has endured.
These type of terrorist activities may, in the mind of the Hungarian communists, do a lot to draw lines in the sand (so to speak) for the Austrian left wingers.
In such a case, the real revolutionaries will emerge and may side with the Hungarians, as will those who seek less revolutionary means to accomplish their political goals, thus speaking out against such actions.

And then, of course there's always the Thule Society remnants hiding out in the country side.

[FONT=&quot]Hmmm… Yes, very misleading paragraph that… Makes it seem like Kun and Terracini became ‘friends’ in Russia not long after March 1918 (or at least before Hungarian Soviet Republic). And I do think the article is using the word ‘friends’ loosely – certainly Kun and Terracini shared the same Infantile Disorder politics but friends? (Let alone “actually pretty close friends”!) They probably didn’t meet until the Third Congress of the Comintern in mid-1921.

Speaking of which (and someone must have asked already) – has the Third (Communist) International been founded yet?

Concede to your vision re. Italy, Austria and the Hungarians. It is entirely plausible that some ‘misguided’ comrades would act as they do in your TL. Sets up some interesting butterflies: we gonna miss out on Lenin repeatedly calling Kun an imbecile, miss out on those beautiful polemical pamphlets (Lenin’s “Left Wing” Communism: An Infantile Disorder and Trotsky’s Terrorism and Communism) but I’m sure you have some satisfying surprises in store.[/FONT]
 
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Allied Resistance IV
On the morning of April 5th, 1920 newspapers across DSU Germany, with special sanction from KPD government, officially announced the ratification of the Moscow-Berlin treaty along with Strasser’s Land Reform policy.

“With these two policies, we lay the foundation for securing not just our revolution, but the international struggle for worker emancipation.” said Rosa as she addressed a small crowd that had gathered outside her headquarters.

“Let the workers of Germany and Russia be united in economic and military comradeship!”

Almost immediately, the German populace was thrown into chaos.
While the delegates of the National Convention that still ruled the provincial governments across KPD Germany telegrammed their support to Rosa and the Berlin cabinet, the populace, weary of war and conflict protested the decision.
From Munich, to Hamburg to Düsseldorf, workers and peasants alike vocally rebuked the announcement.

“We don’t even have reliable food supplies to feed our families!” yelled a disaffected worker in one of the new factory councils.

“I say we march on Berlin and demand Rosa put an end to this warmongering!”

By sundown on April 5th, hundreds of workers in several different cities began to make their way to the capital.

Simultaneously, peasants and Junkers alike in the east were thrown into panic over Strasser’s land reform policy.
With the peasants fearing that their lands may be sliced up by the impeding redistribution to the army, and the eastern Junkers feel betrayed by their elected delegate, an organized group of a few thousand peasants and aristocrats marched on Berlin from the east.

However, the Reichsarmee, which up to that point had remained idle outside of the political milieu of revolutionary politics, greeted both the land reform and the impending war with Poland with excitement and adulation.

Many of the soldiers who had remained in the army hadn’t been paid in months, and had begun to prepare themselves, under the orders of their superior officers, for an armed conflict if a demobilization order had come down from Berlin.

However with status as a landed class now within their grasp, the KPD quickly seemed as an economic godsend to soldiers and officers alike.

“Telegram Strasser immediately,” said General Walther Reinhardt to a petty officer himself receiving several telegrams from Reichsarmee officers stationed across DSU Germany.
“Inform him that I, acting at the chief remaining representative of the Weimar Reichsarmee intend to accept his proposal and request his approval to immediately redeploy to the east for forward operations.”

Back in Berlin, Strasser, with Reinhardt’s telegram in hand, immediately met with Rosa.
“We have the Reichsarmee support, Chancellor Luxemburg!” he bellowed excitedly.

“But the peasants and the workers…” Kurt Eisner interjected. “They have begun to protest what they perceive is an aggressive and imperialist act against Poland.”

Ignoring, Eisner’s words and focusing on the Strasser’s success, Rosa congratulated him on his is wise diplomatic plan, and immediately appointed him as the acting People’s War Secretary of the DSU.
“Now that you have your army, your number one priority is to alleviate Radek in Danzig, and provide aid to the Polish communist allies in the north.” she said.
“You are to head to the eastern front immediately and assist Reinhardt in politically preparing the army for their task.”
After concluding her orders, Strasser made his way to the Berlin train station and headed east.
Rosa then turned to Paul Levy and asked him for a status update on the diplomatic situation with the western allies.

It’s not good Rosa; It’s not good at all.
 
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[FONT=&quot]Hmmm… Yes, very misleading paragraph that… Makes it seem like Kun and Terracini became ‘friends’ in Russia not long after March 1918 (or at least before Hungarian Soviet Republic). And I do think the article is using the word ‘friends’ loosely – certainly Kun and Terracini shared the same Infantile Disorder politics but friends? (Let alone “actually pretty close friends”!) They probably didn’t meet until the Third Congress of the Comintern in mid-1921.

Speaking of which (and someone must have asked already) – has the Third (Communist) International been founded yet?

Concede to your vision re. Italy, Austria and the Hungarians. It is entirely plausible that some ‘misguided’ comrades would act as they do in your TL. Sets up some interesting butterflies: we gonna miss out on Lenin repeatedly calling Kun an imbecile, miss out on those beautiful polemical pamphlets (Lenin’s “Left Wing” Communism: An Infantile Disorder and Trotsky’s Terrorism and Communism) but I’m sure you have some satisfying surprises in store.[/FONT]

:D I will try my best to keep you entertained on this, while doing my best to stay close to realism.
That being said yes, be prepared for some crazy butterflies going forward, especially once the Italian blackshirts get going.

In addition..after the next chapter which will detail the western response to the Berlin Moscow Axis, it will be (drumroll) Redux Time!!

Yes, I will go back and redo some the chapters, filling the blanks of missing historicity, maps, and overall government and economic structures as well as solidifying a concrete chapter structure.

Stay tuned for both.
 
Good update though I am somewhat skeptical towards Rosa's increasing pragmatism and compromising. The deal with organized religion can be justified in the sense that it is merely a short-term victory because, with communists in control of education, the secularization of society is inevitable.

The landed class idea is pragmatic because you can't arm the workers (the weapons are controlled by the army and the industry to produce more weapons are controlled by the Entente, so it's a sucks-sucks even more situation, plus workers are not trained to fight but to produce) but Rosa is compromising her values. It's not a "politics is the art of compromise" thing but a compromise of values and there should be more hostility not only from Rosa but from other members of the KPD. Maybe you should make an update with a a heated debate showing the polarization within the KPD, and an update on how Stalin is pillaging his way through East Poland

Ironically if I, a non-revolutionary socialist, was living in TTL I would be supporting the Soviet Union over Germany because the SU is "purer" and has not betrayed the people.
 
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