TL Idea: Batman Alternate Actors/Films

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Any idea what Batman would have looked like without the writer's strike in 1988? The strike meant that Sam Hamm had to step away from the script. A certain proportion of the film doesn't come from him for better or worse. This includes the climax. Joker as the killer of Bruce Wayne's parents was Burton's pet idea-one which Hamm opposed. Had Hamm been around there is a chance he'd be successful in blocking the idea from the film. The problem with that is the entire final act hinges on Bruce's discovery about the Joker. With Sam Hamm around I'm not sure how the film ends.
 
The Cannon Batman should be ex cop, international mercenary and super spy Bill Wayne, who trained with Tibetan monks and is given mutant Kung fu bat powers, fighting an international terrorist conspiracy lead by Mr. J, which was responsible for the assassinations of JFK, RFK and MLK. Mr. J is head of the criminal empire of "The Syndicate" which killed Bill Wayne's brother, has corrupted the New York police and is behind the distribution of crack and heroine into the country. And Batman uses martial arts and is played by Jean Claude Van Damme. It is the perfect "for no reason", failed, off degree adaptation.
 
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In terms of an early 80s Batman actor, why not Richard Chamberlain? He was a hot commodity at the time, and the Cannon Allan Quatermain films were Indiana Jones rip offs that did little to enhance his career anyway. Replace those with Batman.
 
it's certainly an interesting prospect :) Hamill IS the absolute best Joker in history as far as i'm concerned--yes, even topping Ledger's version
 
Mark put a lot of physicality into his performance on the animated series, so it's not that much of a stretch to have him physically perform as the Joker.
 
In the event of a cross-dimensional Batman film who would be playing the silver age Joker? Who'd be good enough to fill the late Caesar Romero's shoes?
 
In the event of a cross-dimensional Batman film who would be playing the silver age Joker? Who'd be good enough to fill the late Caesar Romero's shoes?

Likely anyone who could play the modern Joker. If you want someone stylized with that face, perhaps Jim Carrey?

I have been considering an alternate Batman II. While I may not write up the synopsis, it is driving me crazy to keep it in my head. I would write it, but I don't feel I have the ability to write it out in a sort of point-by-point plot explanation. It would be a modification of the Sam Hamm script in a more cohesive way. The Sam Hamm script has some good ideas but is lackluster. The final version has good ideas but is too dark:

We open directly from the first Batman movie, around Christmas time. The Joker has been killed in the recent past, and Batmania is sweeping Gotham. Stores are filled with bootleg merchandise, as the mysterious vigilante becomes a tourist attraction for Gotham. It is a time of relative peace in Gotham City. The Joker has decapitated the leadership of the major crime families, and the underworld is in disarray. Batman is sweeping up what's left. However, the Gotham police have an uncomfortable relationship with Batman's vigilantism. Batman has also inspired street vigilantes known as "The Order of the Bat", who try to take matters into their own hands, but with often disastrous results. Bruce Wayne does not like them, nor the resentment they bring to Batman. Here we see the hypocrisy of Batman's existence, which even Bruce is becoming aware of. Alfred playfully points this out. Meanwhile, Bruce Wayne and Vicki Vale continue their relationship, but we can sense distance growing between them. Vale loves Bruce Wane, but is it Bruce Wayne or Batman that is the real person? Bruce is thinking about giving up the Batman mantle, and assuming a normal life.

Meanwhile, in prison, Oswald Cobblepot (Bob Hoskins) is using his charms to get an early release. Hoskins is a member of the Gotham elite. The Cobblepot family rivals the Wayne family in terms of prestige. However, Oswald Cobblepot is an arms dealer and the head of a major crime family, going by the alias "The Penguin". While the Joker was murdering his rivals, Cobblepot was safely tucked away in a prison cell. Penguin is what Bruce could have been. He is a selfish, violent playboy who uses his wealth for personal gain and exploitation. Released from prison, Cobblepot is back to his old ways. He intends to fill the vacuum, and take power as the head of the Gotham underworld.

Meanwhile, Cobblepot promotes himself as a reformed man who was never truly a criminal. He promotes his charity work, and uses PR stunts to build his reputation. He goes so far as to announce his intention to run for mayor of Gotham. It is easy enough to point to the failures of the previous administration, which allowed over 700 people to die. Cobblepot blackmails District Attorney Harvey Dent (Billy Dee Williams) into joining his campaign. Dent flatly refuses, until Cobblepot blackmails him with a folder of his psychological profile. Dent has a split personality he keeps under control, but which is slowly taking over despite his medication. The public would not support such a man for District Attorney. Dent relents, and pledges to join the Cobblepot campaign.

Later, Bruce Wayne runs into Selina Kyle while on tour in the Gotham Museum. Kyle is the head curator, and Bruce feels a spark that has gone out of his relationship with Vicki Vale. There is something about Selina Kyle that he does not feel in Vicki Vale; a unique bond. Bruce meets Kyle for late night walks and dinners. Though Selina Kyle initially seeks to lure Bruce Wayne like a femme fatale, she does sincerely fall for him. This strains her relationship with Penguin. Unbeknownst to Bruce, Kyle is also the world renowned thief known as the Catwoman. Penguin has hired Catwoman as his personal assassin, killing off major figures in the Gotham elite. While staged to look like common robberies, Batman deduces that these thefts all involve one thing: ancient cat statues. In reality, Penguin is intent on uncovering something buried under Wayne Manor, and the statues serve as the key. The police warn Bruce Wayne that he's a likely target. Commissioner Gordon insists on keeping a guard at Wayne Manor to protect Bruce. This makes the job of Batman all the more difficult, as he must discover who is behind these crimes and why.

Using a secret passage, Penguin and Catwoman get into the Batcave. We discover that the secret under Wayne Manor was a treasure accumulated over centuries by the Gotham elite. This also explains why the Batcave exists. The statues had belonged to members of the Court of the Owls: a secret society of the Gotham elite that had been exploiting the city for centuries. The Waynes and the Cobblepots had both been members. When Thomas Wayne refused to go along any further, the society had paid Boss Grissom to take care of the Wayne family. The secret fortune is built on the backs of slaves, misery and human suffering. This is Bruce Wayne's original sin.

Bruce Wayne and Penguin fight. Penguin dies. Catwoman runs off. Some other stuff, and a proper act 3 conclusion ensue. This is all I got. Comments? I think it needs more direction of who wants what, what are they going to do to get it, and why should anyone care. And some threads could be cut.

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Let's modify it to this: Cobblepot's entire plan is to take over the gangs, knock out his remaining rivals, and take down Batman, and become the undisputed Boss of Gotham City. And his blackmail of Harvey Dent is to get him to take down Batman; declaring him a criminal, sending the police after him, and maybe blaming him for the crimes Penguin is actually orchestrating.

Adding on to this idea, if Burton just decided to go for broke without concern about another sequel, Penguin could act as a mob boss and just hire every Batman villain that comes to mind to take on the Dark Knight, in the same way we're using Catwoman here. There could be other, more minor crime bosses, perhaps trying to fill the vaccuum. You could throw in Riddler, easily, if it would not be too much. And you could bring in some of the 60's villains and burn them off, like a Burtonized Egghead, Louie the Lilac, and whoever else we can deal with. They're minor enough that they would not overwhelm the story, and are basically just more interesting henchmen. Perhaps that's the way to go, really, dropping my Riddler suggestion altogether, and making Catwoman perhaps more minor than in the initial proposal but more important than the henchmen. Perhaps a "Boba Fett" role.
 
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Tim Burton was upfront about the extent to which he was influenced by the Killing Joke comic. But his Joker is a different sort of character who appears in that story. Jack Napier was always a sociopathic killer. Yes he snapped after his chemical bath but it's a matter of bad gone worse. The protoJoker in the Killing Joke is a much more pathetic figure. A failed comedian who snaps after a terrible day.

What if Burton decided he wanted to lift the origin story for the Joker seen in the Killing Joke wholesale. Now this probably means recasting the Joker because Jack Nicholson would look out of place as a the protojoker seen in the Killing Joke Which could hurt the film's marketing and the willingness of WB to support the project. But if this outcome was possible what might Batman 1989 have looked like?

How might Burton have handled that narrative? And what kind of actor could have played that version of the Joker? Marketing aside I think Michael Keaton would have been a good pick for that kind of Joker. But that would mean there would have to be star power in the Batman role.
 
Tim Burton was upfront about the extent to which he was influenced by the Killing Joke comic. But his Joker is a different sort of character who appears in that story. Jack Napier was always a sociopathic killer. Yes he snapped after his chemical bath but it's a matter of bad gone worse. The protoJoker in the Killing Joke is a much more pathetic figure. A failed comedian who snaps after a terrible day.

What if Burton decided he wanted to lift the origin story for the Joker seen in the Killing Joke wholesale. Now this probably means recasting the Joker because Jack Nicholson would look out of place as a the protojoker seen in the Killing Joke Which could hurt the film's marketing and the willingness of WB to support the project. But if this outcome was possible what might Batman 1989 have looked like?

How might Burton have handled that narrative? And what kind of actor could have played that version of the Joker? Marketing aside I think Michael Keaton would have been a good pick for that kind of Joker. But that would mean there would have to be star power in the Batman role.
in that case, i wonder if this would be the first example of Alan Moore disowning an adaptation of one of his comics or if he'd be more accepting of it?
 
The film wouldn't have been called the Killing Joke and would inevitably have had plot elements distinct from that story. As such I'm not sure if the film would be seen as an adaptation unless Burton is also able to borrow and embellish the plot beyond the "pathetic failed comedian" characterization of the Joker. He might also want to use the basic Joker tries to traumatize someone into madness plot-but I'm not sure Burton would have wanted to center the film on Commissioner Gordon that way.

Alan Moore is Alan Moore. Either he wouldn't talk about it or he'd disown it.
 
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