TL-Help: Floridian Slave-Nation?

Hey Guys,

I'm currently re-starting my "Britannic Union" TL and I had an interesting idea. What if Florida became an independent nation that's governed by previous/escaped/freed slaves. By Florida I mainly mean East Florida. The USA doesn't include Louisiana, and doesn't include New England anymore. The POD would be Toussaint L'Ouverture escaping a Bonapartist Hispaniola to Florida, in which he encourages previous slaves in Hispaniola, the northern US states, New England and the British Caribbean to come to Florida. He then instills a revolt against the "Spanish oppressors", he then creates a 'free' Republic within previous Florida that becomes very much like Haiti after its independence. This means it becomes secluded and basically an 'no whites' policy.

How possible is this to happen over a period of time? What may happen instead? Please tell me your views :)
 
The Southern states would attack it. They wouldn't be able to control their slaves if there was a free slave state nearby.
 
The Southern states would attack it. They wouldn't be able to control their slaves if there was a free slave state nearby.

Is there any way in which they could be stopped from attacking or maybe even lose to the slave-nation? For example when they attack slave rebellions occur in their own states and mass guerilla warfare along with total warfare used by the slaves, compared to the American troops?
 
I agree with Karl. I think it is more likely that this French Nation you set up in Haiti would be allied with the freed slaves and then would start to dabble in the American Continent and set up a free slave state as a puppet of French Haiti.

POD: in 1804 (?) when the French army comes to Haiti they treat with Toussaint and achieve peace and then after the fall of Napoleon in Europe and the succession of NEw England New France sees an opportunity at the urging of Toussaint begins to encourage runaways to settle in Florida and with New French support begin to cause problems in the Southern dominated US leading to a war in the 1820s
 

Glen

Moderator
You would need to have him link up with the Seminoles, who were quite tenacious. I advise you to review the Seminole Wars for ideas.

Bottom line, while you have Georgia on the border, there will be no peace, and they will be pushed further South. You need to set up some reason to allow its existence. Across the Caribbean is one thing, on the border quite another.

Maybe have them hold on long enough for the British to set it up as a homeland for freed blacks (and maybe inconvenient Indians?). But this only works if you somehow neutralize Georgia.
 
If we see the same kind of fury in the blacks in Florida in this that IOTL was seen in Haiti, could an invasion in fact fail perhaps? With a blood frenzy by the slaves who themselves have only just managed to get out of slavery, aren't willing to go back.
 
yes but they will need outside support to be ultimately successful which is what Glenn and I are talking about. I forgot about the Seminoles (stupid, stupid). They would be excellent allies for this nation.
 
If the revolt is isolated to the southernmost part of Florida, there could still be a Spanish buffer territory between Georgia and the new state. Of course the Spanish are liable to try and reclaim the land, but if they for whatever reason can't...

Well, in any case that buys you some time to have a black nation established. Once the USA absorbs the rest of Spanish Florida, as they are liable to do, things will get heated, but if the population is determined enough they should be able to make it impossible to invade and hold them. Unless the Americans are willing to engage in ethnic cleansing, which although they were when it came to Indians they probably won't be when it comes to a population of black ex-slaves. It wouldn't be very popular among the other great powers and it might just make the presumably very unstable situation with slavery erupt into a full-out rebellion.
 
If the revolt is isolated to the southernmost part of Florida, there could still be a Spanish buffer territory between Georgia and the new state. Of course the Spanish are liable to try and reclaim the land, but if they for whatever reason can't...

Well, in any case that buys you some time to have a black nation established. Once the USA absorbs the rest of Spanish Florida, as they are liable to do, things will get heated, but if the population is determined enough they should be able to make it impossible to invade and hold them. Unless the Americans are willing to engage in ethnic cleansing, which although they were when it came to Indians they probably won't be when it comes to a population of black ex-slaves. It wouldn't be very popular among the other great powers and it might just make the presumably very unstable situation with slavery erupt into a full-out rebellion.

I like the idea of having a strip of Spanish Florida in between the Slave Nation and the USA. So if say the Slave Nation is established by 1817, then if Spain cedes their strip of their land to the US as per OTL, then this would've given the slave nation 4 years in which large numbers of free/escaped slaves and Indians will likely have created a relatively large nation population-wise.
 
I like the idea of having a strip of Spanish Florida in between the Slave Nation and the USA. So if say the Slave Nation is established by 1817, then if Spain cedes their strip of their land to the US as per OTL, then this would've given the slave nation 4 years in which large numbers of free/escaped slaves and Indians will likely have created a relatively large nation population-wise.

WI: Your New France takes Florida from the Spanish and uses it as a haven for runaways and use it to flank the US since in this OTL they still control Louisiana
 
Could the Okefenokee Swamp serve as a spot where the hypothetical "slave nation" could bloody an invasion from Georgia and persuade the southern states to reach some kind of modus vivendi?

That seems to be the main geographic obstacle in south Georgia and northern Florida. It would be hard for an army to traverse and disease might also be an issue, as Africans would be more resistant to malaria and other problems than whites.

Before anyone says that the slavers would NEVER make peace with the slaves, the First Maroon War in Jamaica ended with the British leaving the maroons alone if they returned future escape slaves, IIRC.

If the first war between Georgia/the US and this hypothetical Floridian black/Indian state ends with that kind of peace, I could imagine it being really unpopular with more radical Floridians--after all, they're descendants from escaped slaves themselves.
 
You've got multiple, huge problems with this scenario.

1) Social. It's really tough for escaped slaves to successfully build a new civil society that functions. That's ONE of the reasons that Haiti is in such a mess today. One of the reasons why Eric Flint's Rivers of War (Arkansas, etc.) is done the way it was is because he could not come up with a plausible scenario where freed slaves BY THEMSELVES could create a functional nation UNDER EXTERNAL pressure.

2) you're going to have huge external pressure. The US is NOT going to let this nation stand. They believe they have the right to that land, and they are NOT going to have a freeman state on their borders.

3) If it were not precisely independent, but run by Spain or Britain, then maybe you could have a majority ex-slave colony exist - but at this point in time it would be run by the Spanish or British whites.

4) scenarios involving them being 'allies' of Britain or Spain won't work. Spain is dealing with revolts in most of its New World territories, and won't be bothered. Britain might help - but not enough. Look at how Britain resolved disputed bits of Canada/US borders in US favour (not, you understand giving in fully to the US mostly, but usually more in US favour than Canadian). And that's with Canada being a) an actual possession, and b) white.
 
I was actually planning on creating such a nation in my TL. Way I have it is to keep Florida Spanish for a longer time (thus it is still a refuge for runaway slaves) then finally when it becomes part of the states I have Henry Clay as president working with the American colonization society to creating a "Liberia" in Flordia.
Later on during a Civil War (a very different one from OTLs) Florida becomes independent. I still haven´t worked out the details but that´s the gist.
 
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