TL: Denmark-in Africa?

(I know I have said this before, but I REALLY want this timeline to go off and for that I might make minor to major mistakes, but that's what I need your guy's help for. ANY mistakes, you find. PLEASE tell me, so they can be corrected..Oh and the POD is that after the Second Schleswig War, Denmark makes up for it's loss by getting more colonies..)

3 July 1864
Lundby:

"Men, re tell the current situation to me.", Lieutenant Colonel H.C.J. Beck asked of his one hundred sixty men, who one stepped forward and explained to him.

"Lietuenant Beck, it seems the fight in Jutland has really been given up. The army has been severely weakened due to our defeat at Dybbøl in April and a couple days after the defeat, we were displaced from Als. The remaining forces have withdrawn north of Limfjorden and are currently being evacuated from Frederikshavn. Sir.", The solider stated as the Danish Lieutenant absorbed the information given to him and nodded, before reaching for his rifle and looking over his men, he retorted.

"As, I'm sure you all know, The First Regiment under me has been left behind here in Nørresundby to hide the retreat as long as possible, secure the sea-inlet crossings and - if possible without disproportionate risk to our selves - advance southwards. Is that understood?", Beck asked as his men all snapped to attention and saluted.
"YES SIR!"

On the next day however, some scouts had been spotted by the Prussians which lead them to The scouts had been seen by the Prussians who had gone in cover with about 70 out of 124 men behind an earth dike in Lundby's southern edge.

"From Kongehøj about 500 meters south of Lundby,, a long flat hill slopes down to the town.I want Hammerich to launch a bayonet charge at the Prussian ranks!" Beck ordered the company commander, Captain P.C. Hammerich who had no choice but to comply.

On the way there, several locals offered to lead Hammerich's company easterly through a ravine or westerly where some fences would be able to give cover to the Danes, but Beck refused the offer, as his company was not to be led by a 'mere farmer' , and also because the straight road was the shortest.

With cheers and more, the company ran forward in half columns. The Prussians with their breech-loading rifles fired 3 salvos at the Danes , stopping their attack 20 meters in front of the earth dike behind which they had taken cover.

It would be a disastrous defeat for the Danes who total casualties out of the original 160 men rounded up to 70 men, so three-quarters of their force, against three wounded Prussians.

The Prussians for some odd reason did not take the chance to possibly exploit this victory to chase and kill/capture the remaining Danes which had fled. Instead they broke formation and went to Hobro bringing both their own and Danish wounded along with thirteen dead. It was evident by this point that after this battle, had caused such deaths to Denmark's forces, this would be the last battle in the war.

14, July 1864

"General Falckenstein pray tell, what are you doing?", A curious Prussian solider asked, as his general had just finished writing his name in the church book in Skagen which was located at the northern tip of Jutland. Now, with that said all of Jutland, the Danish mainland, was occupied by the Germans. Now also the Danish islands were also endangered by threat of invasion, and the Danish government had to again accept armistice and open for peace negotiations, now under clearly more difficult conditions although.

29 July 1864:
The Prussian army managed to occupy Als and to the Danish government, this was the last strike. They had to open up peace talks now, for they knew they could no longer hope to drive Prussia out..

On the first of August in 1864, Christian IX renounced to all his rights in the two duchies in favour of the Emperor and king of Austria and Prussia respectively. But the war did not officily end until the Treaty of Vienna was signed October 30, 1864 between the Austrian Empire, The Kingdom of Prussia, and The Kingdom of Denmark. Based on the terms, Prussia would administer Schleswig, while Austria did the same for Holstein. Once the news that the war had ended reached the soldiers who were on their way to Copenhagen, they were not surprised that they weren't greeted with the same joy that they had received the last time Prussia and Denmark duked it out. Christian was also reasonably upset by the crushing defeat his country had suffered.
 
The crossing for Als was made June 29, 1864 not July.
The cease fire was effective on July 20.
Thats just the nitpicking on history; please proof read your writings "On the next day however, some scouts had been spotted by the Prussians which lead them to The scouts had been seen by the Prussians who had gone in cover with about " sentences like this is slightly confusing... guess you could easily clean this one up. ;)

Oh, and as in every other army lt.col. Beck would be addressed "colonel" not lieutenant!

Other syntax issues I'd leave to native english-speakers! :p

Though do please go on to the POD!
 
The Second Schleswig War had high aftereffects on both sides. King Christian now knew that even with Iceland and Greenland as a apart of the 'Danish Empire' Denmark was simply too weak to have held it's own against the combined might of Austria and Prussia. The country itself also had lost much population and rich parts of the country. Christian was also upset that both fellow Scandinavian countries:Sweden and Norway had refused to aid Denmark in teh war. Although, the current king of Sweden had promised Christian troops.

The failure to do so or if he ever had any intentions of doing so was another factor which led to Denmark's crushing defeat and in the king's opinion put a end to any potentonal 'pan-Scandinaviasm. Christian although as stated before, the war did indeed have a great effect on him and the country, many Danes and other foreigners thought of his reaction to it as 'half hearted'. But little did the Danish know that while the Prussian forces' first clash of arms since reorganization their effectiveness proved clear, this had apparently been ignored by the Austrians The Danish Generals did not know how much this realization would bear fruit for them.

The war which came to be known as The Austro-Prussian war showed that Prussia was the only state that could defend the other German states against external aggression. The war went from 14 June – 23 August 1866 and the war ended with the Peace of Prague. This 'peace allowed Prussia to annex Hanover, Schleswig-Holstein, Hesse-Kassel, Frankfurt, Nassau and parts of Hesse-Darmstadt. Denmark was a bit shocked by how quickly Prussia crushed Austria. It was evident that in case of possible Prussian aggression, Denmark would either have to make alliances with the other great powers or in Christian's mind expand the empire...
 

WeisSaul

Banned
Denmark always did have a good navy. Primarily, it is an island nation after all. The Jutland Peninsula was never the core of Denmark. Denmark has more in common with Britain than any continental European power.

In terms of expansion, I'd like to point out that Denmark had Indian colonies. The Nicobar islands were Danish until the Danes sold them in 1868.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_India

I really hope Denmark takes the Nicobars, Aceh, Scania, and Norway. A race for the east indies between the Dutch and the Danes sounds cool to me. Thailand/Siam and parts of Burma seem like a good place for the Danes to march into. Perhaps the Danes could build a canal through Thailand to compete with Britain for trade into China?

I don't know what it is, but I just like seeing underdog nations become great in these types of TLs.
 
The Second Schleswig War had high aftereffects on both sides. King Christian now knew that even with Iceland and Greenland as a apart of the 'Danish Empire' Denmark was simply too weak to have held it's own against the combined might of Austria and Prussia. The country itself also had lost much population and rich parts of the country. Christian was also upset that both fellow Scandinavian countries:Sweden and Norway had refused to aid Denmark in teh war. Although, the current king of Sweden had promised Christian troops.

The failure to do so or if he ever had any intentions of doing so was another factor which led to Denmark's crushing defeat and in the king's opinion put a end to any potentonal 'pan-Scandinaviasm. Christian although as stated before, the war did indeed have a great effect on him and the country, many Danes and other foreigners thought of his reaction to it as 'half hearted'. But little did the Danish know that while the Prussian forces' first clash of arms since reorganization their effectiveness proved clear, this had apparently been ignored by the Austrians The Danish Generals did not know how much this realization would bear fruit for them.

The war which came to be known as The Austro-Prussian war showed that Prussia was the only state that could defend the other German states against external aggression. The war went from 14 June – 23 August 1866 and the war ended with the Peace of Prague. This 'peace allowed Prussia to annex Hanover, Schleswig-Holstein, Hesse-Kassel, Frankfurt, Nassau and parts of Hesse-Darmstadt. Denmark was a bit shocked by how quickly Prussia crushed Austria. It was evident that in case of possible Prussian aggression, Denmark would either have to make alliances with the other great powers or in Christian's mind expand the empire...

Danish politicians even of the National Liberal wing had concluded this even before the war but the spirit of "we beat the Germans" of 1848-50 lived on and created the illusion of being able to come victoriously of a second round!
Also the Danes didn't realize they violated the Treaty of London 1851 of upholding the personal union of the Kingdom of Denmark and the Kings German Duchies; hoping for Great Powers intervention during a second round.
Of course they failed on these counts as well as on the pan-Scandinavism which was no more than wishfull thinking full of hot air anyways!
Pan-Scandinavism being largely a students cause.

The Danes wisely kept off the turf during 1866.
Napoleon III made an attempt 1870 to get an alliance but that was rejected.

The Prussian victory may have been a shock to all except the Danes; or rather being cautious they decided to offer Prussia an alliance in the hope of getting rewards in Slesvig!

As early as 1845 Denmark had realized that the colonies be it African, Indian or West Indian were an economic dead end and tried getting rid of them.
The Indian colonies were sold to Britain November 7, 1845 the fort on the Gold Coast was sold to Britain 1850; the Nicobars were kept to 1869 several attempts at colonization were tried but failed largely due to malaria killing off the colonizers. Much to everybodys surprise Denmark would hold the islands that long untill Britain agreed to accept buying sovereignty. The West Indies were kept till 1917 although attempts were made several times to sell them to USA.

By 1866 Danish engineer officer Enrico Dalgas founded Det danske Hedeselskab (The Danish Heathfoundation) that was to support the already initiated cultivation of the West Jutland barren lands - Heden.
These actions resulted in the quotation 1872 of "hvad udad tabes skal indad vindes" (whats lost abroad shall be regained at home) at an art exhibition of H.P. Holst but usually attributed Dalgas.

Government decided to lay low in foreing affairs mostly not to displease Prussia/Germany; the newly acquiring of a fleet of armoured ships surpassing in strenght the Danish navy making it clear that if the Prussians wanted a go at Denmark they'd even be able to land troops on the isles which would open their way to Copenhagen.
Thus a long struggle over defence strategy evolved as to how defend the Kingdom; at the border or at the capital. In the end the latter would win out and this would be effected 1914.

As already mentioned Government had designs on trading the West Indies for Slesvig which Bismarck or US-government didn't want as well as the King had his own designs; to offer 1864 to become a German vassal thus being able to keep his Duchies as well as the Kingdom. Bismarck didn't want the latter as it would enter another Kingdom into the future empire as well as a large non-german population.

Thats in short the story; now lets face your POD! :)
 
Denmark always did have a good navy. Primarily, it is an island nation after all. The Jutland Peninsula was never the core of Denmark. Denmark has more in common with Britain than any continental European power.

In terms of expansion, I'd like to point out that Denmark had Indian colonies. The Nicobar islands were Danish until the Danes sold them in 1868.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_India

I really hope Denmark takes the Nicobars, Aceh, Scania, and Norway. A race for the east indies between the Dutch and the Danes sounds cool to me. Thailand/Siam and parts of Burma seem like a good place for the Danes to march into. Perhaps the Danes could build a canal through Thailand to compete with Britain for trade into China?

I don't know what it is, but I just like seeing underdog nations become great in these types of TLs.

Denmark had lost the Navy 1807; had been rebuilding post 1815 and begun switching to steam and armour 1864. As already stated Prussia had nullified Danish naval surpremacy shortly following 1864 (1869 AFAIK).

Denmark may retry colonizing the Nicobars; Aceh would be a possibility if resources are around but Scania and Norway would mean war with Sweden hardly a safe measure at the time; even should the Norwegians decide to join in only to demand independence!
Making the last one tricky. ;)

Denmark had great interest in Siam/Thailand; the Siamese navy were build by Danish navy officers from 1874 though in reality the real hand behind it all were big business impersonated in H.N. Andersen head of East Asiatic Company which board admiral Andreas du Plessis de Richelieu when returning from commanding the Siamese navy 1902 entered.
The Kra Canal would be a fine monument to create. :)
 
I'm so sorry to have taken this long to update but I had come to a writer's block and I apologize to all of those who were so kind to comment.
WILL UPDATE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!:eek::eek:
 
By the year 1866 which was the same year, Prussia had easily crushed it's German 'rival' Austria, in the Ten Week War which it came to be called. Christian IX now having had a glimpse of Prussia's power was a bit frightened that Prussia possibly having felt strong enough to invade his country again. Once, he had seen that would not happen, Christian IX was relieved but however he was not satisfied that Prussia would be 'filled' with it's wars and the annexation of Denmark's lost territory after the war stung Denmark personally. Many historians agree that when Christian approached France and Austria with the offer of a alliance was quite the bold adventure. He had the support of the Danes who wished to see Prussia at the very least taken down a notch * It took time but eventually Christian managed to form an alliance with France, and Austria.These powerful countries all banded together to form a strong counter against a possibly aggresive Prussia.

But after the alliance was made,Christian had to work hard to get the Danish people's spirit up so they would be ready to assist their new allies in case of war with Prussia. Christian used troops from Greenland and Iceland but he realized that unless he could gain the full support of the Danish people behind him and the fact that even with his two colonies's support and possibly some from the Faeroe Islands, Denmark simply didn't have a population big enough to hold off Prussia for a long amount of time.

Which is why Christian after speaking to some of his generals and advisers on how to get more manpower , he decided that in Asia, he had the idea of getting more involved with Siam,through the East Asiatic Company. The idea of helping to build Siam's navy came to mind to start off good relations and from their strive to perhaps if possible make Siam the 'jewel' of the Danish Empire as Britain had proclaimed India as.
END UPDATE. Short I know, but hey I hope you guys like it..

Umm excuse me fellows, but how does one change the title of their thread? I want to change this to Danish Empire...Because obviously Siam/Thailand isn't in Africa. :p
 

WeisSaul

Banned
By the year 1866 which was the same year, Prussia had easily crushed it's German 'rival' Austria, in the Ten Week War which it came to be called. Christian IX now having had a glimpse of Prussia's power was a bit frightened that Prussia possibly having felt strong enough to invade his country again. Once, he had seen that would not happen, Christian IX was relieved but however he was not satisfied that Prussia would be 'filled' with it's wars and the annexation of Denmark's lost territory after the war stung Denmark personally. Many historians agree that when Christian approached France and Austria with the offer of a alliance was quite the bold adventure. He had the support of the Danes who wished to see Prussia at the very least taken down a notch * It took time but eventually Christian managed to form an alliance with France, and Austria.These powerful countries all banded together to form a strong counter against a possibly aggresive Prussia.

But after the alliance was made,Christian had to work hard to get the Danish people's spirit up so they would be ready to assist their new allies in case of war with Prussia. Christian used troops from Greenland and Iceland but he realized that unless he could gain the full support of the Danish people behind him and the fact that even with his two colonies's support and possibly some from the Faeroe Islands, Denmark simply didn't have a population big enough to hold off Prussia for a long amount of time.

Which is why Christian after speaking to some of his generals and advisers on how to get more manpower , he decided that in Asia, he had the idea of getting more involved with Siam,through the East Asiatic Company. The idea of helping to build Siam's navy came to mind to start off good relations and from their strive to perhaps if possible make Siam the 'jewel' of the Danish Empire as Britain had proclaimed India as.
END UPDATE. Short I know, but hey I hope you guys like it..

Umm excuse me fellows, but how does one change the title of their thread? I want to change this to Danish Empire...Because obviously Siam/Thailand isn't in Africa. :p

Sounds like you listened to my Siam advice. Are the Danes going to carve out an empire from the Nicobars, Siam, and Aceh? Will they build a Siamese canal?
I think you should have the Danes sell of the Virgin Islands to the United States earlier to fund their...ventures.
 
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By the year 1866 which was the same year, Prussia had easily crushed it's German 'rival' Austria, in the Ten Week War which it came to be called. Christian IX now having had a glimpse of Prussia's power was a bit frightened that Prussia possibly having felt strong enough to invade his country again. Once, he had seen that would not happen, Christian IX was relieved but however he was not satisfied that Prussia would be 'filled' with it's wars and the annexation of Denmark's lost territory after the war stung Denmark personally. Many historians agree that when Christian approached France and Austria with the offer of a alliance was quite the bold adventure. He had the support of the Danes who wished to see Prussia at the very least taken down a notch * It took time but eventually Christian managed to form an alliance with France, and Austria.These powerful countries all banded together to form a strong counter against a possibly aggresive Prussia.

Nap III had the section 5 entered in the Prague peace treaty that sometime in the future there might be a referendum returning Danes in Schleswig to Denmark - this been butterflied away?

Denmark had seen plenty of Prussian military might 1864; that made it stay out 1866 and 1870. Whats changed?


But after the alliance was made,Christian had to work hard to get the Danish people's spirit up so they would be ready to assist their new allies in case of war with Prussia. Christian used troops from Greenland and Iceland but he realized that unless he could gain the full support of the Danish people behind him and the fact that even with his two colonies's support and possibly some from the Faeroe Islands, Denmark simply didn't have a population big enough to hold off Prussia for a long amount of time.

There were no troops in Greenland and Iceland. Greenland was a colony its population not suited for military service and other north Atlantic possessions excluded from it.
There were a small manpower base in the West Indies but blacks in the army!!!

Which is why Christian after speaking to some of his generals and advisers on how to get more manpower , he decided that in Asia, he had the idea of getting more involved with Siam,through the East Asiatic Company. The idea of helping to build Siam's navy came to mind to start off good relations and from their strive to perhaps if possible make Siam the 'jewel' of the Danish Empire as Britain had proclaimed India as.
END UPDATE.

Could you be somewhat more specific about the POD... it's all quite sketcy.
 
Which is why Christian after speaking to some of his generals and advisers on how to get more manpower , he decided that in Asia, he had the idea of getting more involved with Siam,through the East Asiatic Company. The idea of helping to build Siam's navy came to mind to start off good relations and from their strive to perhaps if possible make Siam the 'jewel' of the Danish Empire as Britain had proclaimed India as.


Its all very difficult to achieve; Christian 9 were a conservative to say the least looking to preserve his rule as King of Denmark AND duke of Schleswig, Holstein and Lauenburg even going so far as in the wake of defeat 1864 offering to have Denmark become a German feif to keep it all.
He wanted to keep the ruling class in its position.

As to colonies; as already pointed to they were written off by 1845 so you have to come up with something really earthshattering to make the Danes reverse their course.
Lots of Danes worked for the Belgian King in the Congo so it shouldn't be all out the window; just remember the Danish experiences of colony is at the point a negative one. ;)
 
Its all very difficult to achieve; Christian 9 were a conservative to say the least looking to preserve his rule as King of Denmark AND duke of Schleswig, Holstein and Lauenburg even going so far as in the wake of defeat 1864 offering to have Denmark become a German feif to keep it all.
He wanted to keep the ruling class in its position.

As to colonies; as already pointed to they were written off by 1845 so you have to come up with something really earthshattering to make the Danes reverse their course.
Lots of Danes worked for the Belgian King in the Congo so it shouldn't be all out the window; just remember the Danish experiences of colony is at the point a negative one. ;)

Thanks for all the advice you have offered but I'm still brainstorming of a next update and or fixing my previous one..
 
Thanks for all the advice you have offered but I'm still brainstorming of a next update and or fixing my previous one..

I'll be looking forward to it. :)

Just remembered one thing - Denmark was economically better off without the Duchies. Post-1864 industrialization began in ernest and agriculture improved; without the artificial internal tax and toll boundaries trade and goods flowed more freely.
Esbjerg was founded to provide a western port now that Altona had been lost.

Of course it all makes your job harder but Danish finances expressed in C.L. Tietgen made world wide business - Nordic Telegraph, steamships etc. etc.
You could have him sideline King Leopold in the run for Congo seems like the great powers didn't mind who got it as long as the French didn't! :D
 
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