TL-191: Yankee Joe - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the U.S. Armed Forces
- Thread starter Alterwright
- Start date
Awesome dude, this is Amazing stuff you created!! 😎
Been meaning to post this here for months now, but some USAF fighters from the Late War period
Hopefully you created an WW1 Yankee Fighter man!!
I been thinking about Something horrific FGW in TL-191.
In OTL, there was Numerous War crimes of Looting, Shooting and Massacred on Belgian civilian by German Soldiers during the Beginning of the First World War. This Several incidents of war crimes are known as “Rape of Belgium”
These places like Ardennes, Tamines, Dinant and Most Infamous was the Sack of Louvain were Several Civilians were Massacred, Looting and Destroying many buildings as well as Women being targeted for Rape by German Soldier.
While I know that Germans Atrocities in Belgium were Notoriously Exaggeration by Entente Propaganda especially in Britain and America, but happen on civilians and it should be a Remember by it.
But anyway that not here for a history lesson for you guys, this it’s a Horrific recommendation for you guys.
Do you think that the Yankee Soldiers do the Same thing on Canadian, Confederates and Mormons cities?
Especially on the State of Sequoyah which would (I think) will be the Worst Brutality on Civilian by U.S Forces during the FGW cause Hatred of Native’s tribes Allies with the Confederacy as well as Destroyed on the Great Plains Indian after the War of Southern Independent.
So Imagine Several War crimes committed against Canadian and Confederates (Especially the Native Sequoyah) of Mass Looting, Killing, Shooting and even Rape of Women by Young Billy Yankee during the early of FGW
In OTL, there was Numerous War crimes of Looting, Shooting and Massacred on Belgian civilian by German Soldiers during the Beginning of the First World War. This Several incidents of war crimes are known as “Rape of Belgium”
While I know that Germans Atrocities in Belgium were Notoriously Exaggeration by Entente Propaganda especially in Britain and America, but happen on civilians and it should be a Remember by it.
But anyway that not here for a history lesson for you guys, this it’s a Horrific recommendation for you guys.
Do you think that the Yankee Soldiers do the Same thing on Canadian, Confederates and Mormons cities?
Especially on the State of Sequoyah which would (I think) will be the Worst Brutality on Civilian by U.S Forces during the FGW cause Hatred of Native’s tribes Allies with the Confederacy as well as Destroyed on the Great Plains Indian after the War of Southern Independent.
So Imagine Several War crimes committed against Canadian and Confederates (Especially the Native Sequoyah) of Mass Looting, Killing, Shooting and even Rape of Women by Young Billy Yankee during the early of FGW
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I could maybe see Union troops committing these acts, but only in isolated incidents. Nothing as bad as OTL Belgium, certainly.
I strongly disagree with that Conclusion with you man. Their at least four reason Why the Billy Yank will committed these Atrocities such as Bad as the German did in Belgium if not worse.
First, USA alright loss Two Wars against the CSA as well as being Humiliated defeats by the Rebs and Canuck in the last War. It will Build off Resentment by the Americans afterwards with the desire for Revenge and Reception in those 32 Year until the Breakout of FGW.
Many young americans will Heard their previous defeats and humiliation when they were younger, they probably want to get revenge on the Confederates and Highly targeted civilians
Secondly, The Remembrance ideology Spread across the U.S lands and public after the Second Mexican War. This is an Ideology that spoke of Extremely Revanchist against the CSA, American Militarism on a Large scale and Authoritarian action.
Do you think that will not breed any Sentiment of Hatred of the Any person’s besides the American as “The Enemy” in War? Of course not, they will be filled of Remembrance propaganda that will be Motivated of many atrocity.
Thirdly, U.S Military adopted the German Treatment of Civilians as an method to Control or Punish the Civilian population in the Enemy territory. German did this to Belgium and Northern France during WW1. These previous countries who didn’t humiliate Germany such as the CSA and Canada did with America in 1882 so they will highly be Brutal Execution/Looting/Massacred by the Billy Yankee in FGW.
With U.S doing the same thing as the German did in Belgium meaning that these Atrocity will tragically lasts longer than OTL did.
Finally fourthly, Francs-Tireurs is Actually the Threat this Time. If you don’t know what they were, I give you an Rundown: Francs-Tireurs (French for free-shooter) were Irregular militiamen who fought against the Prussian forces in the Franco-Prussian War. They were used by the Imperial Germans as an “Boogeyman” during the Rape of Belgium for anyone that shoot or resist any German occupiers.
Why did I mention about this, you asked me about? Because unlike with Belgium they been actually be A lot of People who will resisted against the Yankee soldiers in FGW, there Confederate citizen’s who will have Many guns that will be Happy to shooting on U.S troops, this will result in Mass Massacres or Execution in response.
So imagine many Canadian and Confederates Francs-Tireurs shooting Yankee troops meaning A lot more Atrocity will happen in American front.
And that my four reasons why American troops will highly be as Bad or Worse in Belgium and will not be an Isolated incident in the FGW
Exactly VL, GIGACHAD McGregor is a Great supports this idea of the Yankee soldier did commit Mass atrocities on the Canuck and Rebs civilians.
Those atrocities will may be even Worse than the Rape of Belgium because At least the Belgians and French didn’t Humiliate Germany as much as CSA and Canada did with America in the last Two Wars before FGW. It will be Horrors of a Mass scale across the Many cities and towns in the CSA and Canada that make even the Horror of Belgium to shame.
This will be an Nightmarish Scenario if you think about it for an Minute.
So Basically you have Many young Americans who believe firmly Ideology that essentially is Proto-Fascism who want to Revenge for the Yank pride.
They are taught that they Nation being humiliate for an Total of 2 times against the People who view as “Traitors” by these Americans.
They who now has German way to Dealing with Civilian with Brutal method like Full scale Massacre and Execution on innocents civilian
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I would go so far as to argue that by the end of GW2 there are few actual "Canadians" left alive. In American Front, Walk through Hell, and Break Through, TD makes it clear that the US is adopting the German policy of massive retaliation in Canada. If I could think of the officer who killed Alexander McGregor at the moment it would be great but I cant. Anyways he tells The People of Rosenfeld that for ever US soldier kill 5 Canadians will be killed in return. One of the Cruelest parts of the whole series (yes including the Population reduction) is the drawn out period where Alexander is Imprisoned before he is executed. More so during rereads now that I have kids of my own as a father I can understand why Author starts blowing people up after that. There are somethings that just hit below the belt too hard. (to add to comparison McGregor had 1 son and three daughters, I have 1 son (also the eldest) and four daughters. So Author is a character I get )
There's probably an element of siege mentality going on within the US at the time. Considering the US has the CS & Mexico to the South, Canada to the North, Britain across the Atlantic and Japan in the Pacific it's going to be easy for the Remembrance Movement to paint the United States as surrounded on all sides by enemies.
It really says something if even Imperial Germany would be appalled by the sheer scale of it all...
Honestly I definitely think that the Worst of the Atrociously crime’s by the Yankee army during the FGW will be the Native Sequoyah.
Remember that OTL Indian Territory (Today Oklahoma) was Filled of Native’s tribes who are allies with the CSA that helps them against the Yankee during the Civil War, They were eventually lost and get screwed by the Yank in OTL.
But in TL-191, they were Successful and Surprisingly thrive in the CSA as they have Autonomy like similar Chechnya in Russia. Meanwhile the North will of rage after the Defeats by the South that they will DESTROY on the Great Plains tribes afterwards.
U.S might even use the German tactic on the Great Plains tribes when they started Adapted it with highly horrific results similar to Wounded Knee.
American will definitely hate the State of Sequoyah and highly make Sequoyah to Remove on the Face of the Earth with the Hatred of the Sun in the Remembrancist Movement.
If you want to had Perspective on Crime of Sequoyah during FGW on Yankee Occupation
Imagine My Lai but on State Size
Basically Sequoyah will be scene filled of Mass Killings, Massacred, Deportation and Full scales Genocide by Billy invaders
OTL Doughboys will highly feel disgusted and horrified by the TL191 Billy Yank
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Honestly the deeper you dig into 191 the darker this world gets. Assuming the above happens which I agree is likely (and the book Sequoyah never gets state hood in the union, also it is the one state were the Union wins the plebiscite vote cause of so many Yankee settlers in it. As Featherstone notes in Victorious opposition he didn't expect to win that state.) This Makes Population Reduction when It happens (which is very deep black dark in its own right) look like just another drop in the bucket of blood. (makes me wonder if the disgust that Dowling feels when he finds the camps in Texas real or show) as Custer's adjunct he would have known about Canada maybe not Sequoyah
On the other hand, the Entente propaganda will Definitely use the Atrocities of Yankee crimes on Canuck and Southern civilian as an Great Motivator for many Brits and Rebs to fought even harder.
Especially with Sequoyah army and militiamen who wants to pay back on the Yankee Genocide on their people, “Rape of Sequoyah” will definitely be used the most in Propaganda with the Worst of the Yankee atrocity’s in FGW
Especially with Sequoyah army and militiamen who wants to pay back on the Yankee Genocide on their people, “Rape of Sequoyah” will definitely be used the most in Propaganda with the Worst of the Yankee atrocity’s in FGW
Definitely man, that Southern Boi who give TL191 order to the Rebs Officer inadvertently make the World into a harsher and brutal place.
Blacks were subjective to an Mass Genocide, 9th nukes on Cities into Ashes, Whole Generations of North and Southern boy get Slaughtered in Third Wars and The Worst part about this Whole Tragic is that Johnny soldier caused all of this.
If that Johnny who see all the Event of TL191 and seen all the Horror and Death that he accidentally committed.
He probably been like this
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I do have to disagree on at least one point:
Many of the US soldiers would be immigrants, or direct descendants of immigrants. While they're certainly ready to fight for and defend their adopted country, they wouldn't have the ingrained hatred for the south that Americans whose families had lived in the US since the War of Secession would have. While there'd certainly be reprisals for partisan activity, i don't really think you'd see mass-executions or killing for the sake of it (save those few lunatics like Gordon McSweeney, and even other Union troops found him unsettling)
If anything, you'd see such hatred from the REBS, who considered such cultural mixing to be abhorrent. It ties back into the original rebellion: the Rebs fought for their ideal of a State and country, they couldn't fathom what the Union troops, many of whom were immigrants fresh off the boat, were fighting for.
Many of the US soldiers would be immigrants, or direct descendants of immigrants. While they're certainly ready to fight for and defend their adopted country, they wouldn't have the ingrained hatred for the south that Americans whose families had lived in the US since the War of Secession would have. While there'd certainly be reprisals for partisan activity, i don't really think you'd see mass-executions or killing for the sake of it (save those few lunatics like Gordon McSweeney, and even other Union troops found him unsettling)
If anything, you'd see such hatred from the REBS, who considered such cultural mixing to be abhorrent. It ties back into the original rebellion: the Rebs fought for their ideal of a State and country, they couldn't fathom what the Union troops, many of whom were immigrants fresh off the boat, were fighting for.
Excellent work here.
updated my Barrel drawings from a few years back
Those could vary widely and have a variety of themes. A popular theme found on WW2 US patches were cartoons for example, either of cartoon characters found in media of the time or ones specially picked and created to represent the squadron. There were even patches designed by or inspired by Walt Disney's cartoon style. Some also took cultural cues from their state as well.
Ultimately, patches drew on a variety of sources and quite a bunch looked humorous in nature. Not every patch needs to look "cool" or "professional". I personally like the more cartoony ones myself. Yankee patches in this timeline might use different cartoon characters or use different symbols (again that could also vary widely and honestly its whatever you feel looks appropriate for the time), but in essence would not be radically different to the ones used in our WW2.
You have to realize something many of those immigrants will be from Germany a.k.a. Country where it Notorious for Militarism is normalize as well as Nationalistic society they were Immigrated from. so it very likely that Germans immigrates who will highly be part of the Remembrance movement.
Other Immigrates aside the German one will probably want to want to be a Part of the US, people want to part of something to fit in. That just Human psychology for wanted to be a part of a Group or a Movement ( Remembrance movement )
Either with want to be a Part of something bigger or just want to assimilate more into the US, most immigrated will want to be American as much as the next guy, so it highly that they preach about how they hate the confederacy (Even though they even had no Personal hatred for Confederacy) Italian, Irish, Poles and especially German immigrates alike will be how they are Full believer of Remembrance and how they despise the Rebs for what they’ve done to America.
As for the “Mass Execution and Killing for the sake of it” it has a Purpose for those disgust Atrocities, those are People who had plenty of guns that will be used who killed or at least injured Yank soldier or of group of them.
They not in Europe who have strict gun laws or no guns at all by the Civilian population in occupied areas, they faced population who will be Armed and Ready enough to fight against the Yank occupiers.
You need to flex to Terrorized the Civilian population to not resist or they will be die in Mass Execution or worse.
Remember that they lost Two war against the People who literally destroyed their Nation pride and dignity that will want to let’s their Revenge out on the Civilian population in Yank occupied area.
There will many illegal trade of weapons to defend themselves or rebel against a Yankee occupiers especially with Rebs who historically know are Rebellious people that know to push Yank buttons.
The Rebs were deeply Nationalist before FGW with the US, they win against the Yank two time in war time as well as backup by the Most powerful player of Europe, Britain and France.
Of course they will be Hatred for the Yanks for they want to Reunite the Union and make their Rebellion into Rebs knee but still tho, Yank and Rebs will deeply hate each other for the Past deeds that will highly atrocity from either side will be numerous especially how big the American front really is
It’s more complicated than that. It also depends on which time period you’re talking about as well.
During the American Civil War in our timeline, a very large portion of the US Army was made up of ethnic Germans or first generation German-Americans. However, there was no “Germany” to speak of during this time - only the various smaller German states existed, like Bavaria, Prussia, Saxony, etc. Many of those German immigrants, the generation known as the Forty-Eighters, actually shared liberal and democratic ideals since many had fled their homelands in the wake of the failed Revolutions of 1848, which sought to unify Germany as a republic built on democracy - revolutions that authoritarian Prussia helped to put down. As the years went on into the 1860s and 1870s and 1880s some saw the rise of a powerful Prussian state as the unifier of Germany, eventually making the German Empire, as being a detriment rather than a benefit to them, since laws and economic policies would likely be dominated by Prussian rulers and lawmakers. So, they left America - the workers and intellectuals that would not and could not fit in with the new order of a Prussian-dominated Germany, seeking jobs and new life. These, of course, didn’t make up all the German immigrants, as many came here with their own various beliefs, skill sets, and political views.
Let’s not forget as well that socialism throughout Europe was on the rise, even in places like Germany, before and during the Great War of 1914-1917 in this timeline. Not everyone in Germany agreed with fervor of nationalism and intense patriotism that focused on supporting the Prussian-born Kaisers, or we’re just sick of of the Prussian system of government and wanted something… a little more red. Even in America, at a time where the Remembrance Movement was at its height, you still had people that openly disagreed with its tenants and actively sought support from some immigrant communities in the more urbanized areas of America, which included Italian, Greek, and German speaking people, as well as other European minorities.
I will agree that a nice portion of German immigrants did view authorianism and militarism is a good and necessary thing, but I don’t agree that a vast majority would support it. You had just as many that would be favorable to socialism or democratic ideals. Germans, like Americans, are varied and diverse as well. And even though I believe a good portion of German descended Americans may support the ideals Remembrance and the push for the Army to adopt more German style methods to war, I would not be surprised if some of the most vocal and passionate people that would push back against all this would be German themselves.
Same goes for the Army - soldiers may follow orders, but that doesn’t mean they have to like them as well. And while I do agree that US Army was absolutely no saint when it came to the treatment of Canadian, Mormon, and Confederate civilians (the aforementioned McGregor story arc being a very good example) it wasn’t universal to treat them like absolute shit and that policy of mass reprisals was walked back as the 1920s and 30s rolled in. It didn’t always work all of the time, because you ended up getting getting people like McGregor trying to throw bombs at generals. A German immigrant soldier in the US Army may agree with such reprisals, but another German immigrant in the US Army may see it as deplorable, even if he carried out the order to shoot the civilian.
TLDR, It’s a more complicated answer than it seems.