TL-191: Yankee Joe - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the U.S. Armed Forces



Note the US-style Bipod and M3 Tripod. if i recall, the reason it was never adopted were
A: the .30-06 round was a bit too rough on the weapon and
B: the oft-stated Ammo consumption that to be fair is a legitimate issue of the MG-42.
I have or had an old gun magazine that stated it was considered too over engineered of a weapon and would be too costly and time consuming to put into production. I'm still pretty sure it was the MG-34 that the article was about but I could be mistaken or perhaps the US considered copying both weapons.
 

The Solothurn S18-100 Heavy Barrel Busting Rifle, a Swiss designed and manufactured gun using the 20mm ammunition and the best rifle the Barrel Busting category of rifles. Used in numbers by Germany, Austria-Hungary, Turkey, Poland, Bulgaria, the Ukraine, Finland, Holland, Italy, Persia, and even small numbers being sold to both the USA and the CSA for evaluation and field testing.
Something that I could see both the US Army and the CS Army having, as a limited use weapon.
 
Some ideas for Union Army armored cars and light barrels


The Mark 17 Staghound (with 37mm gun and two M1919 7.62mm MGs) and Mark 17A1 variant (with two 12.7mm MGs)


Light Barrel Mark 3A2 "Pulaski" (37mm main gun and three M1919 7.62mm MGs), at Milford, Connecticut, circa 2015.


An illustration of a Light Barrel (or Infantry Barrel) Mark 2A4 (37mm main gun and five M1919 7.62mm MGs) belonging to the under-strength 4th Motorized Battalion of the 5th Marine Division, Bermuda, circa 1941.


A photo of the Light Barrel Mark 4A1 "Pulaski" (37mm main gun and three M1919 MGs) at a Second Great War event at Rockford Illinois, circa 2016.


An illustration of the Prototype Mark 8 Infantry Barrel (75mm main gun and an M1919 MG), intended to replace the Mark 3 and 4 Light Barrels from service as part of a program to upgrade the firepower and protection of the type. However, due to the poor design and conception of the vehicle, the Mark 8 project was abandoned.


An illustration of a Mark 9 "Roosevelt" Light Barrel (75mm Main, two M1919 MGs, and an M1921 12.7mm HMG) which was the result of a program to increase the firepower and protection of light barrels. Depicted here is a Roosevelt of the 17th Independent Motorized Infantry Battalion attached to the 79th Infantry Division during the fighting around Charlotte, North Carolina in early 1944.


Blueprints of a Mark 15 "Pittsburgh" Armored Car, it's nickname implied that they were built at Pittsburgh during the Battle there. These were essentially 4x4 trucks that were modified into armored cars at a factory in Pittsburgh, which they would be armed with a .50 caliber M1921 heavy machine-gun with a smaller caliber M1919 in the turret. It could optionally be mounted with a Browning M1913 HMG at the top as an AA machine-gun.
 
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You're right that the Stuka and the Tiger didn't influence the Confederacy but they did inspire Turtledove, their description in the books sound a lot like the German weapons so ITL-191 the Germans didn't develop them but the CSA did for similar reasons.

I wonder what Hollywood would use to represent the CSA arsenal if they were ever to do a film on TL-191? Would they just use US armor vehicles and aircraft to represent both sides or would they convert existing vehicles to look like WWII German vehicles, build models of something completely different?
I think Hollywood would just use US made weapons for both sides like Shermans for the Union and maybe M41 Walkers for the CSA, P51's Mustangs for the Union and maybe P40's for the CSA.
It would be cool if a studio went and designed all new tanks and aircraft for a movie or a mini series but I doubt they would do that.
I just had an idea from reading this, what about the possibility for an animated mini-series.
 
My little list for the small arms of the Union Army during both Great Wars.

Pistols

Colt M1911 - .45 ACP. The first service automatic pistol adopted by the US Military, used throughout the two Great Wars.
Smith & Wesson M1915 - .45 ACP (OTL M1917 Revolver). An interim pistol adopted during the 1st Great War, features the half moon clips.
Colt M1901 - .45 Colt and later .45 ACP (OTL Colt New Service Revolver.) Introduced at the turn of the 20th Century, the M1901 revolver was the mainstay pistol of the US Military until the early 1930s, when they were withdrawn to 2nd Line Use.
Hi Standard HDM - .22LR. A suppressed pistol specifically developed for the Union Military's Intelligence, the Office of Special Services as a weapon for their secret operations with the enemy lines.

Rifles

Springfield M1940 - 7.62x63mm (similar to the FN Model 1949.) A planned replacement for the 1903 rifle, only 34,000 rifles would be produced by the time of Operation Blackbeard, after which production would be focused on the 1903 rifle.
Browning M1917 - 7.62x63mm (OTL BAR rifle.) Developed as an Assault Rifle, but becoming a squad support weapon.
Springfield M1903 - 7.62x63mm. A Union made adaptation of the M98 Mauser action, the M1903 would be the standard rifle for both World Wars for the Union Army with a total of 7,072,000 rifle built.
Springfield M1895 - 7.62x63mm. In the 1890s, the Springfield armory would develop a Mauser rifle with elements from the Krag rifle. A total of 1,903,000 rifle built from 1896 to 1903 and saw use during the Great Wars.
Winchester M1941 and M1944 - .30 Carbine (OTL M1 and M2 Carbine.) On the very eve of Operation Blackbeard, the Union Army would develop and introduce a rifle that was to equip units such artillerymen and truck drivers. The M1944 was a select fire variant. A total of 5,820,000 rifles produced.
Springfield M1873 "Trapdoor" - 45-70 Government. During the 1st Great War, the old Trapdoor rifle was used by Rear Area Troops.

SMGs

Thompson M1921/M1928/M1928A1/M1941 - .45 ACP. The first Submachine-Gun for the Union Army and the mainstay for the 1st half of the 2nd Great War. A grand total of 1,262,000 guns manufactured from 1921 to 1944.
United Defense M42 - .45 ACP. An emergency weapon developed after Blackbeard, the M42 was used by the Union Army as well as by the Black Resistance Movements and others within the Confederacy, a total of 800,000 guns manufactured.
Colt M42 - .45 ACP. Another emergency weapon, but this weapon was rejected by the Union Army, but was dropped to Anti-Confederate Resistance Movements by their thousands.

MGs

Browning M1919 - 7.62x63mm. A Development of the Browning M1913 gun, which was modified into an air cooled weapon.
Browning M1895/M1895/14 "Potato Digger" - 7.62x63mm. Reserve weapon during both wars, latter as an AA machine-gun.

HMGs

Browning M1913 - 7.62x63mm (OTL M1917 Machine-Gun.) Standard heavy machine-gun during both Great Wars.
Browning M1921 - 12.7x99mm (OTL M2 Browning.) Standard Heavy Machine-gun for the Union during the GW2 and beyond.

Shotguns

Winchester M1897
Winchester M1912
Ithaca M1937
Remington M1931

Other

M1942 "Stovepipe" (otl M1 Bazooka)
M1939 Anti-Barrel Rifle (OTL Winchester .50 cal Anti-Tank rifle)
M1944 Recoilless Rifle (OTL M18 Recoilless Rifle)
Solothurn S-18/100
 
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The Trapdoor would long have been phased out of use by this point: the reason I included the Colt 1876 Revolver was because it used the same caliber ammo as the 1911 (and Custer carried them, iirc)
 
The Trapdoor would long have been phased out of use by this point: the reason I included the Colt 1876 Revolver was because it used the same caliber ammo as the 1911 (and Custer carried them, iirc)
I would see that rifle being used by rear echelon units, whom didn't need the more modern Springfield rifles (so to free up more Springfields for the front), but only in the First Great War.
 
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All hail the .50 BMG, and St. John Moses Browning, who is it's prophet and creator.
I do wonder what happens to John Browning in TL 191. In OTL he was a mormon and in TL 191 they seem to spend most of their time alternatively revolting against or being oppressed by the US government. Obviously not all Mormons would be Anti American fanatics and some would probably support the Federal government (possibly creating an interesting possibility of a LDS splinter church that supports Philadelphia). So would Browning still develop weapons for the US army? Might he go into exile into either the Confederacy or Europe to produce designs there.
 
I do wonder what happens to John Browning in TL 191. In OTL he was a mormon and in TL 191 they seem to spend most of their time alternatively revolting against or being oppressed by the US government. Obviously not all Mormons would be Anti American fanatics and some would probably support the Federal government (possibly creating an interesting possibility of a LDS splinter church that supports Philadelphia). So would Browning still develop weapons for the US army? Might he go into exile into either the Confederacy or Europe to produce designs there.
I think a lot of people underestimate/are unaware of just how influential he was. He created the modern handgun (with the Browning/FN 1900), he created .45 ACP, he created the M1917 Machine gun (albeit in a watercooled version, not the far more famous air-cooled .30 cal of WW2 fame), the BAR, the 1911 itself, a bunch of shotguns, and the .50 cal is known as .50 Browning Machine Gun for a reason. What I mean is, if he is never born/killed/never goes into guns, modern small arms would be VERY different.
 
I think a lot of people underestimate/are unaware of just how influential he was. He created the modern handgun (with the Browning/FN 1900), he created .45 ACP, he created the M1917 Machine gun (albeit in a watercooled version, not the far more famous air-cooled .30 cal of WW2 fame), the BAR, the 1911 itself, a bunch of shotguns, and the .50 cal is known as .50 Browning Machine Gun for a reason. What I mean is, if he is never born/killed/never goes into guns, modern small arms would be VERY different.

Not only him, but individuals such as Hiram Maxim [whether or not he would have immigrated from USA to Britain and still invented the Maxim gun], John T. Thompson's Confederate heritage and the invention of the Tommy Gun], Jean Garand (who was born in Canada in the Quebecois province and the inventor of the M1 Garand], and Harold G. Sydenham [inventor of the M1 Helmet who was born in Virginia in 1898]
 
I do wonder what happens to John Browning in TL 191. In OTL he was a mormon and in TL 191 they seem to spend most of their time alternatively revolting against or being oppressed by the US government. Obviously not all Mormons would be Anti American fanatics and some would probably support the Federal government (possibly creating an interesting possibility of a LDS splinter church that supports Philadelphia). So would Browning still develop weapons for the US army? Might he go into exile into either the Confederacy or Europe to produce designs there.
It's worth pointing out that many of his designs were sold to other companies: the 1911, for example, was owned by Colt, not Browning, Firearms. They would be the ones doing the selling, and would have no problem selling to the US Army.
 
It's worth pointing out that many of his designs were sold to other companies: the 1911, for example, was owned by Colt, not Browning, Firearms. They would be the ones doing the selling, and would have no problem selling to the US Army.
Given the setting of the scenario Browning might end up moving to Belgium and doing all his work for Fabrique Nationale.
He did afterall die working at his bench in Liege!
 
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