TL-191: Yankee Joe - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the U.S. Armed Forces

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Alterwright, Sep 30, 2018.

  1. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Oh, you know, the police forces of older states always have to have that 'swag' factor I suppose.

    Now, as much I think we're on to something with the uniforms here, I actually think reserving the Stetson (the stiff brimmed hats) would be more suited for use by the Confederacy. Peaked caps and crusher hats would look much better on United States personnel in my opinion.
     
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  2. Sierra Nagato-class Kuudere

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    Well, honestly, it started in the 20s and 30s. Prior, a lot of police dressed similar to a cross betwern a Union soldier and British police. Long blue coats, and the same Bobby helmet. Ill also point out that Fascist asthetics were extremely popular prior to WWII. Many leading politicians and figures were admirer of Mussolini (Including FDR, notably) and you can see a lot of this in government in the time. Sam Browne belts were so popular as a sign of civilan authority that even crossing guards and bus drivers wore them.
     
  3. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Yeah I can definitely see the United States Cavalry and infantry fighting in the desert favouring the crusher.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Sierra Nagato-class Kuudere

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    Whats being suggested is having hte Confederates wear those. Specifically having officers wear them.
     
  5. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    I think I just found the perfect helmet for Yankee Joe the Fedayeen Sadamm helmet.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Danthefan28 Well-Known Member

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    Kinda looks like Darth Vader's helmet...
     
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  7. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    [​IMG]
    That and COBRA cosplay...
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Father Maryland Enemy of Neo Secesh Everywhere

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    In some scenarios (Depending on how strong the RN/French Navy are. If they can't get the ships through it's not happening) I could see the US sending a small unit (maybe a reinforced brigade or something) to fight with the Germans less as a practical way of helping and more a symbol of their commitment to the alliance. Potentially that could be mirrored with the Germans sending a similar unit to fight side by side with the Americans for the same symbolic reasons. Anyone ever done a TL 191 scenario with Americans fighting under German command in say France or Russia or Germans under American command fighting in say Canada or Kentucky? You could have it be part of exchange program war games pre war with each ally sending a force to the other to participate in war games. Then have them be stuck when the war starts and have each ally act like it's an intentional good will mission to show their support for the alliance.
    A similar idea would be having a small USN squadron on a goodwill tour visiting a German port immediately before the war and not having the opportunity to return to American water once the war starts. Then depending on the port there in and the circumstance such as say if their in Kiel their put under the command of the High Seas fleet. But if their stuck in say a east African port that will rapidly be conquered you could have the crew take their ships or ship up river. Then have them strip the ship of anything that could be possibly of any use and then scuttle the ships. The crew and their marine contingent could then be landed and formed into a provisional infantry and artillery unit. American marines and US sailors with naval guns on makeshift carriages serving under Paul von Lettow- Vorbecks command.
     
  9. Matt Wiser Well-Known Member

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    In the ship visiting a colonial port, their first objective will be to go raiding, a la the last cruise of SMS Emden OTL. Koenigsberg, Emden, and an American cruiser will terrorize the IO. The number of ships sunk or taken will send maritime insurance rates skyrocketing, ships will be held in port for lack of escorts, and RN, French, and Japanese warships will be diverted from other missions to hunt the raiders. When they do make port, they'll be bottled up pretty fast, and have a choice: a death-or-glory ride, or scuttle. They scuttle (or in Emden's case, get caught and shot to pieces), and thus the crews go ashore to fight with the German Colonial Force.

    How about a German-built gunboat on one of the African lakes, but with an American crew? U.S. Navy sailors man one of these gunboats, and it flies the Stars and Stripes.

    The ultimate irony would be in GW II, where it happens again. And a couple of the Chief Petty Officers on this newer cruiser were seamen the first time around, and like last time, they fight their war in Africa....
     
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  10. Father Maryland Enemy of Neo Secesh Everywhere

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    I like the German gunboat with American crew idea. Maybe you could have it have been built in Europe then disassembled and shipped to the lake. By the time the war starts the gunboat has been effectively reassembled and is more or less complete. The catch is that the German navy crew was prevented from being shipped in by the outbreak of the war. Leaving the German forces with a more or less complete gunboat without a crew.
     
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  11. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Here's a fun idea a special SGW division of the United States Military Institution who was primarily charged with developing new laws for the CP war effort, sabotaging enemy R&D and the acquisition of Entente scientists and researchers post war. Having done plenty of morally questionable things and war crimes, including human experiments on enemy POW's. Being the closest you can get to a RL COBRA/HYDRA, complete with running the equivalent of Walmart as a front for their operations and as a source of revenue outside of Congressional approved budgets. Having done a lot of MKultra and NAZI meth experiments both during wartime and afterwards.
    [​IMG]

    Edit: I think it would be funny if someone from OTL got transported to TL-191 USA and found that they had a pretty "putting on the reich" aesthetic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
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  12. Father Maryland Enemy of Neo Secesh Everywhere

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    One thing I've been wondering about is what happened to John Browning in the 191 TL verse. Browning was a mormon from Utah and in the TL 191 Utah was a hotbed of anti American sentiment and frequent rebellions. In OTL for a good part of the 19th century the Mormon church had a rather negative relationship with the US government. Until the 1930's LDS church members in good standing had to swear a secret oath pleading god to take his vengeance upon the US government. Albeit by that point and decades earlier the oath was more or less an anachronism and many Mormons were (and are) deeply patriotic and numerous Mormons have served with honor in US forces. That's one of those ironies that always makes me chuckle. John Browning's faith made him literally swear bloody vengeance against the US and yet he more then probably any other man did more to arm American forces.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_vengeance
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Neighbor_policy_(LDS_Church)


    "You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation."

    In OTL John Browning designed numerous firearms for the US government (among other clients) and was a deeply patriotic man. But in TL 191 with the LDS church so fervently opposed to the Federal government and the frequent Mormon rebellions what does John Browning do (assuming he survives)? Does he still consider himself an American foremost? Could he potentially be a member of some sort of splinter LDS church sect that supports the Federal government and opposes the insurgencies and rebellions? Does he still design weapons for the US Army? Or does he immigrate to a anti US country where he can offer his services such as say France or the CSA?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
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  13. trekchu Hangin' around since 2007

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    FN Herstal, Colt, Vickers... there's plenty of companies and even more countries where arms development goes radically different without his contributions/without his providing competition to drive innovation. Hell, Browning invented the modern pattern with the FN 1900.
     
  14. Nathan Bernacki Well-Known Member

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    Not going to lie. That looks both amazing and intimidating all at once.
     
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  15. Sierra Nagato-class Kuudere

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    This is....extremely unlikely. The US is, regardless of its "Prussianization", still America, and not Nazi Germany. There is nothing to suggest that the America of the SGW is in any way the sort of nation that is prepared to use POWs as human guinea pigs. Likewise, mlitary units owning their own business interests to fund themselves is not something you can really have in a nation that fully subordinates its military to civilian governmental authority.That really only occurs in nations where the military is a law unto itself, such as Nazi Germany, or modern China. Sabotage of R&D projects would, of course, be something that falls under the normal purview of existing intelligence organizations. And the recruitment of Entente scientists (such as Henderson Fitzbelmont) was done by regular military units, otherwise you would not have General Dowling (who I can hardly see cooperating with a unit such as you describe) being his "minder."
     
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  16. Soundwave3591 Member

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    I personally look to the Bundeswehr for US uniforms: they've got that mix of American and German that fits the theme of the setting.

    [​IMG]

    Could see this lot on a more modern Remembrance Day, with "Morrell Pot" helmets and Ceremonial Springfields:
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Soundwave3591 Member

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    On the Subject of Browning, I'd say the matter is confirmed when the US is stated to use the BAR and Colt .45. the former is stated to be a good counter to the Tredager, but the US doesn't have enough of them to strike the balance.

    The period between the First and Second Mormon rebellions was the same time Browning was developing many of his weapons, and Mormons were trying to integrate into the USA in some capacity.
     
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  18. Undeadmuffin Muffin want to liiiive !

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    Since it was discovered that the Browning machinegun probably was not invented due to Browning being a Mormon, would the US stick to improved gatling or buy Maxim gun ?
     
  19. RamscoopRaider Some Sort of Were-Orca, probably an Akhlut Donor

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    Hiram Maxim is American, he was actually born in the part of Maine that the British temporarily took over. So Maxim most probably, might actually butterfly the British from getting them. Either that or some ATL design, the PoD is in 1862, plenty of room for a completely new MG in the 1890's
     
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  20. Pangur The Cat Donor

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    He could have invented it and the US decided that the patent was part of the spoils of victory
     
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