TL-191: Yankee Joe - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the U.S. Armed Forces

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Alterwright, Sep 30, 2018.

  1. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    Yeah, definitely. anything to shave off weight for the gun, since that would have been one of the main complaints. I think a folding wire stock might do the trick weight wise.
     
    cortz#9 likes this.
  2. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    compact_m1a1_m1928_thompson-II.png
     
    CountofDooku and Alterwright like this.
  3. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    DUDE!! This looks fucking awesome!! I love it! This legit looks like a reasonable design choice! With the grip and the wire stock it could totally be a true alternate Thompson! The look is so unique! Looks like it could be lighter too!
     
    cortz#9 and CountofDooku like this.
  4. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    It also looks like it would fit in a holster for easier carrying and for issue to paratroopers.
     
  5. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Location:
    Southern Idaho
    [​IMG]
    Second Great War Union "jug" anyone.
     
    cortz#9 and David CGB like this.
  6. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    What's a "jug"?
     
  7. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Another take on a compact Thompson.

    compact_m1a1_m1928_thompson-III.png
    Folding front grip, improved rear sight and moved the shell ejector a little forward.
     
    Alterwright likes this.
  8. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    Schweet! So I'm guessing this version is to make it more portable and a little lighter right? You said this might be good for paratroopers if its handy enough, but it could also prove useful for logistical storage too.
     
    cortz#9 likes this.
  9. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Location:
    Southern Idaho
    I figured that the Timeline-191 powers outside of Britain would give call their mini tanks Jugs instead of tankette's.
     
  10. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    Well, better than calling it a "barrelette" I suppose. I don't think I'll ever get used to calling tanks "barrels" in this story lol Its just too weird.
     
  11. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    Well, I like the hull and chassis, it could be good for a new US tank design but the turret kind of reminds me of an Mini M1 Abrams - too modern. What's this tank's name and designation in OTL?
     
    cortz#9 likes this.
  12. Allochronian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Location:
    originaltimeline
    I like the choice of word. It makes sense.
     
    cortz#9 likes this.
  13. Jack Brisco NWA Powerhouse

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    If you have a top-loading magazine it would seem the rear sight couldn't be used.

    Just finished reading a great book about Thompsons, American Thunder, Third Edition, by Frank Iannamico. Lots of pics, lots of info. The drum magazine was found not to be good for combat. Too heavy, too bulky, rounds inside can rattle. Matter of fact, many of the drums made during WWII were trashed. Some drums provided to Britain were returned. Instead, the users went first to the 20-round magazine, then to the 30-round magazine. Saw pics of Thompsons without the butt stock.

    Now, some will ask, "What about the Finnish Suomi and Soviet PPSh submachine guns? They both used drums. Sure did. The only thing I can think of is since the round was smaller than the Thompson's .45ACP, the drum may have been smaller and easier to carry. Or in the case of the Soviets, STAVKA/Stalin just mandated the drum be used to put all the lead possible downrange. The Soviets also issued a variant of the PPSh that took a stick magazine.

    So I'd say lose the drum and use the 20- or 30-round stick magazine as in OTL configuration.

    If you have any interest in Thompsons at all this book is a pretty good buy.
     
  14. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    Indeed! Sounds like a good buy for sure. I'm wondering if the book actually touches on how soldiers made the Thompson lighter for combat, since that seemed to be another complaint. Thompsons with no stocks actually appeal to be greatly.

    For the sights on this particular alternate-Thompson made by @cortz#9 however --- the overall design takes inspiration from the Owen Gun, which had a top-mounted magazine as well.

    For the sights, they would be set to the left, like on the Bren Gun, not obstructing the shooter's view. On the Owen Gun, I believe the sights were set slightly to the right.

    Screen Shot 2019-03-16 at 2.10.55 PM.png

    ^^^ --- Bren Gun sights --- on the Alternate Thompson mentioned, the sights would be set to the left as well.

    600px-RS2V_Owen_Idle.jpg

    ^^^ --- Owen Gun sights, set to the right.

    Hope that clears things up.
     
    cortz#9 likes this.
  15. Jack Brisco NWA Powerhouse

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Book talks more about what was done by Ordnance/manufacturers to simplify the weapon for easier building. Weight wasn't really mentioned. Some things, like taking off the Cutts compensator, may have shaved off a few ounces here and there, but the gun was still heavy.

    Yeah, thanks for the info. In this case not a real fan of the Thompson stick magazine on top. IMHO it works better on the Bren since that magazine isn't as tall. Could see it Lewis-gun style since it's flat.
     
    pattontank12 likes this.
  16. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    could be a good tank, er uh, I mean a barrel crewman's personal weapon.
    Moving the mag to the top was to make the gun a little smaller and more portable and would be easier than changing the gun's configuration to a bull-pup. The gun without a wood stock and magazine in place is now small rectangular object and easier to carry and store.
    I'm not a big fan of guns with top place magazines either except for the Bren but it does have its advantages. I would still rather have a normal Thompson or better yet an MP-40.
     
    Jack Brisco likes this.
  17. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    I think a normal Thompson is fine too, though I do find the idea of lighter stocks would have suited the gun too, like a folding stock or the wire stock you made for this one. Could be a more realistic feature the US Army implemented for the Thompson in TL-191, if anything to try and make it more portable and perhaps lighter, but I'm unsure. At that point they may have been moving toward producing a much more simplified SMG along the lines of the M3 Grease Gun, which would have been the better option I believe.

    Well, I like the Owen-style Thompson immensely! :D Than you for your iterations of it! The wire stock ones are my favorite. Less bulky.
     
    cortz#9 likes this.
  18. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Like I said it could be a good gun for paratroopers and crews of armoured vehicles and for jungle and urban warfare, easier to move thru bush and heavy foliage (the reasoning behind the Owen) and moving around the inside of buildings and crawling around the floor.
     
  19. DrakonFin Operator

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Location:
    The Finnish Military-Historical Complex
    The Finnish drum mag m/37 was considered very good (as in "reliable in use") and the drums used in the PPD and PPSh were apparently direct Soviet copies of it. For reference, the Finnish 70 (72) round mag weighed nearly 900 grams empty and 1,5 kg full.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    Jack Brisco and cortz#9 like this.
  20. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Location:
    California, USA
    Interesting! So, what made the magazine so "good" to use? Just made at a very high quality? So, the weight of it would be roughly 1 lb. empty and 3 lb full?