TL-191: Yankee Joe - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the U.S. Armed Forces

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Alterwright, Sep 30, 2018.

  1. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

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    Kind of like a WWI version of the M3 Lee?
     
  2. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Huh... I guess so.
     
  3. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

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    I meant having the main gun on a sponson on the side instead of set in the center of the hull or in a turret.
     
  4. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Heh, nicely done! Custer would be proud. Actually, he'd probably remark that these were like "light cavalry".
     
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  5. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Now, that's a land-ship! The addition of a turret seems very cool here. Its like one of those tank designs you would see out of a science-fiction or steam-punk magazine for the time. Very cool!

    So, what's the armament that we're looking at here for this behemoth?
     
  6. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

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    77mm.
     
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  7. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Oh. So it only has the one 77mm gun in the turret then? What about the machine guns?
     
  8. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

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    Probably 30.06 like the Springfield.
     
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  9. David-Shiell Perplexing People Since 1976

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  10. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Yeah, according to that article you link the two helmets are remarkably similar. The US Model 5 has a more curved shape that the Swiss 1918, but the design is eerily similar.

    Maybe smooth out the edges a bit and perhaps we'd have a US TL-191 helmet for sure.
     
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  11. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    wm_3161674.jpg
    The Winchester 1886 originally designed by the Winchester Repeating Arms in hopes of gaining a new contract as the primary rifle of the United States army, following its restructuring along the more successful Prussian model. Sadly it was soon passed over in favor of the more modern bolt action rifles based off of the German Gewher 88, though it did find a new life for itself in the United States cavalry. With many cavalry men favoring it over the Army Springfield's for it's rate of fire and ease of reloading, thanks to its magazine fed loading system. Serving with distinction with the United States cavalry in the western plains of Canada and the desert of the Southwest during the Great War and in the hands of the United States Marine Corps during the Caribbean Campaign of the Second Great War.
     
  12. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Krag-rilfe-and-carbine-600x300.jpg

    How likely would it be that the United States had experimented with semi automatic rifles and carbins based off of the krag jorgensen similar to how the garand was an evolution of the Springfield.
     
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  13. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    I mean, it could be possible. The Krag-Jorgenson was not the most ideal rifle for the US Army though. There is a reason why the Army replaced the Krag with the Springfield after all and it was due to the experiences of the Spanish American War in our timeline. When compared to a Mauser design like what the Spanish had, the Krag was not as competitive.

    Not saying the US can't experiment though. They could very well have had experimental designs of the Krag before the Great War, but experimenting with a "semi-auto" Krag is... its hard to picture for me?
     
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  14. David-Shiell Perplexing People Since 1976

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    Very hard. The .30-40 Krag was a rimmed cartridge, and poorly suited to automatic weapons. One of the reasons the US ditched the round was due to the fact that machine guns hated it. The French suffered similar migraines with the 8mm Lebel. I always imagined that the US would simply copy the Mauser pattern rifles, just as the Confederates copied the Lee-Enfields.
     
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  15. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    That's a good point there. Plus, as the world moved into the 20th Century, a need to use a rifle like the Krag would be highly detrimental in the long run and with the growing shift away from rimmed cartridges in the years to follow, especially after the Great War, it would only be inevitable that the Krag and any iteration of it would be relegated to the annals of history.
     
  16. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    True. Looking it over the Krag would simply be left behind in the long run, compared to other more reliable rifles.

    Though I still think that the Union would have experimented with semi-automatic rifle designs as far back as pre-FGW, only never being widely introduced until post SGW.
     
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  17. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Yes, the United States would have definitely tried to create a semi-automatic rifle to replace the M1903 Springfield. While its not technically bad that the US Army still uses a bolt-action rifle as its main infantry firearm - many countries at this time still used bolt-action rifles of course - it is however odd that the US Army would not experiment with semi-auto designs at all in TL-191. Simply capturing Confederate TAR rifles for use isn't sustainable enough, no matter how effective the rifle is. Given that even Mexico experimented with its own semi-auto design, I feel that the US would be incredibly embarrassed for not trying to make one themselves.
     
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  18. cortz#9 Obrltnt of Kampfgruppe Seelöw

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    This makes me think the CSA would be in a better position to develop a semi-auto rifle having the Mondragon and the Russian Tokarov (if not butterflied) rifles to study plus the need to deal with US larger population.
     
  19. RamscoopRaider Some Sort of Were-Orca, probably an Akhlut Donor

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    Who says they didn't experiment? Nothing in 191 contradicts the possibility of the Army or Marines developing a semi automatic rifle but never deploying it for cost or logistical reasons. Or at least never deploying it on camera as it were, our POV characters are not omniscient nor everywhere

    Why they didn't seem to deploy any semi-auto designs they might have had, logistics. They have stockpiles and production chains for bolt action weapons and ammunition, switching longarms could disrupt that
    The CSA is in a better position to introduce a semi automatic rifle because they don't have a huge pile of GWI bolt action rifles and ammo sitting around like the US does. As such cost for them to introduce a semi auto/automatic is relatively less than that for the US. In terms of development they are probably on the same page, but deployment is different
     
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  20. Matt Wiser Well-Known Member

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    Marines, especially would want a semi-automatic rifle. The Corps likes firepower and anything that gives a Marine a leg up on the bad guys is a good thing.

    Want to know who likely had the first U.S. automatic rifle? The Airborne. Not just using captured CSA weapons, but a U.S. version would be a plus. Keep in mind that Chattanooga probably wasn't the only U.S. airborne operation of the war. It may have been the largest, though.
     
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