TL-191 Uniform, weapons and equipment of the Secondary Combatants.

Might I please ask if there has been any consensus on what the Armed Forces of the Russian Empire ought to look like by the time of the Second Great War? (I've been trying to puzzle out how to visually distinguish them from their Soviet counterpart and been drawing something of a blank beyond the obvious lack of the Red Star, as well as the presence of shoulder-boards throughout).
 
Also, it has occurred to me that - given France & Great Britain aren't really in a position to do some gun-running between the Great Wars (and that Germany is NOT going to be handing out weaponry to one of it's more angry neighbours) - it's quite possible Russia might buy American (United States) military surplus as a way of making her own manufactures stretch a little farther (especially after the Pacific War gives the USA an excellent reason to help Russia rearm, if only to put pressure on Japan*).

*Not to mention spite Germany for saying "Not my problem".
 
Might I please ask if there has been any consensus on what the Armed Forces of the Russian Empire ought to look like by the time of the Second Great War? (I've been trying to puzzle out how to visually distinguish them from their Soviet counterpart and been drawing something of a blank beyond the obvious lack of the Red Star, as well as the presence of shoulder-boards throughout).
I imagine the Russians looking pretty much the same way they did in WWI, even OTL Soviet uniforms didn't look that much different just a lot more red tabs and badges so less of that in TL-191.
As for weapons, same rifles, they still might make OTL sub machine guns or maybe buy license to a Confederate design, Turtledove describes the CSA as using a lot of sub-guns in their army.
I would see the Russians dealing more with the CSA than the US.
 
I imagine the Russians looking pretty much the same way they did in WWI, even OTL Soviet uniforms didn't look that much different just a lot more red tabs and badges so less of that in TL-191.
As for weapons, same rifles, they still might make OTL sub machine guns or maybe buy license to a Confederate design, Turtledove describes the CSA as using a lot of sub-guns in their army.
I would see the Russians dealing more with the CSA than the US.
Might I please ask if there has been any consensus on what the Armed Forces of the Russian Empire ought to look like by the time of the Second Great War? (I've been trying to puzzle out how to visually distinguish them from their Soviet counterpart and been drawing something of a blank beyond the obvious lack of the Red Star, as well as the presence of shoulder-boards throughout).
Yes. I tend to lean on the side of the Russian forces having very similar or identical uniforms to what they had in WW2, but instead of communist symbols and other things associated to the Soviet Union, the Imperial Russians would retain the same insignia, awards, and the many many unique regimental symbols and uniforms the Whites and monarchists were known for. And that's not bad really. Coming up with new styles of uniforms can be hard sometimes and in Russia's case retaining the same uniform styles from what they had is fine (and given that some Imperial regiments with a long history would still be around, they would insist on retaining the privilege to keep their uniforms.)

Fan artists from the HOI4 mod Kaiserreich actually did a good job reimagining these uniforms used by fascist-leaning Russian government, for example.

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Basically, I always think that the Russian Empire's equipment is based on OTL USSR's equipment, but less on quantity and has more imperial symbols.
 
Basically, I always think that the Russian Empire's equipment is based on OTL USSR's equipment, but less on quantity and has more imperial symbols.
A few examples.

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The French helmet with the coat of arms of the Romanovs stamped on the front and the Budenovka hat from the Russian Civil War years. The recognizable pilotka side cap worn by many Russian infantryman in WW2 could be easily adapted by simply having the red star replaced by a Romanov cockade hat badge.

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I would see the Russians dealing more with the CSA than the US.

That's not an unfair assumption, though I would suggest that (since the CSA itself is another slightly-backward agrarian nation trying to bootstrap it's way into the 20th century, despite the lingering effects of a Red Rebellion AND a more advanced, rather angry neighbour making it highly dangerous for them to be caught 'gun-running') in terms of pure realpolitik it makes far more sense for the Russians to approach the United States - not only because they have a land frontier across which to smuggle goodies, but also because the United States is fantabulousy rich & powerful (not to mention free itself of pesky arms-limitation treaties, in theory and in practice) and potentially in the market for a new European/Eurasian power who can handle the British Empire while the USA deals with problems closer to home - given that Germany signally fails to do very much at all in its ally's favour between the Great Wars (Even if the USA isn't willing to drop Germany in favour of the Russians, there's still the possibility of Russia using an approach to the USA to bring about a rapprochement with Germany without first being forced to go cap in hand to Kaiser Wilhelm - by no means an unattractive prospect, given the caning Russia took as a member of the Entente).

Besides, the Confederate States of America already have Mexico - why back Russia from all the way across the Pacific when your very own crumbling, Old World monarchy is sitting right there in your back yard, hand out?;)
 
@Alterwright, @cortz#9, @ThirdyLovesAH - thank you most kindly for your replies; I'm a little amused by there being such a swift consensus (and those illustrations are rather good, though for my money the second is perhaps a little too "Can't believe it's not Soviet!").

I do imagine that, unlike the Red Army, Tsarist forces would have dress uniforms before the Great War's sequel (Also, curiously, they would have lacked the rank of major - that rank being abolished in the 19th century).

Thank You for your assistance!
 
ALSO - having just been so cheeky about the Second Mexican Empire, I'm now wondering what it's forces ought to look like at the time of the Great War & Second Great War; I know that they wore uniforms of a 'butternut' colour with more yellow in it than the Confederate brand, but I'm specifically wondering what their rank insignia might look like (One cannot decide if they'd follow Austria-Hungary, some other European power or borrow from CSA models).
 
ALSO - having just been so cheeky about the Second Mexican Empire, I'm now wondering what it's forces ought to look like at the time of the Great War & Second Great War; I know that they wore uniforms of a 'butternut' colour with more yellow in it than the Confederate brand, but I'm specifically wondering what their rank insignia might look like (One cannot decide if they'd follow Austria-Hungary, some other European power or borrow from CSA models).
Being of Mexican decent myself I've always been more than a bit curious about Mexico in TL-191, I can imagine Mexico using military insignias similar to the CSA or maybe France since the France did rule over Mexico for a period.
 
Some possible patterns for the Mexican Army
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The Condor Legion's uniforms could be source of inspiration of potential Mexican uniforms

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Or the aforementioned French
 
Being of Mexican decent myself I've always been more than a bit curious about Mexico in TL-191, I can imagine Mexico using military insignias similar to the CSA or maybe France since the France did rule over Mexico for a period.

Strictly speaking the French Second Empire (under Napoleon III) actually put Maximilian on the throne of Mexico (or made a game attempt to do so); I'm not sure if the French Republic would have kept up the connection though (and I'm also not certain modern French rank insignia was in use at that point, making it tricky to decide if it's far game to use this particular 'life model').

I do find it easy to imagine the Mexican Empire of Timeline 191 regularly dancing back & forth between the twin extremes of "Holy Smokes, the Confederate Norteamericanos whipped the Yankee Norteamericanos - I want what they have!" and "We are a Nation, not a province!" when it comes to designing their uniforms (I do like the idea that the Interbellum years sees the Mexican Empire embrace German styles, partly because the Kaiser's lot are the winning team, but also because by doing so they make it somewhat easier to cloak the sad fact that Confederate influence comes dangerously close to being Confederate control*).

*Put another way; the less the Mexican Empire looks like a Confederate auxiliary, the more straightforward it may be to project plausible deniability ("Yes, Confederate engineers build my guns & my armour - and I shall retain this weaponry as I retain their services!" or, if you prefer, "Look like a Kaiser and the United States cannot possibly mistake you for a Reb").


Some possible patterns for the Mexican Army

Hmmm ... I suspect we need to throw some American influences in there (i.e. North & South American), but that gentleman in the middle image looks interesting; more 'Republic' than 'Empire' but a decent place to start. Thank You for suggesting these references.:)
 
Do we think that Confederate volunteers with the Emperor's forces would probably wear Mexican Army uniform? (Admittedly this probably depends on which volunteer formation they serve with; I suspect the Stalwarts would wear whatever they get their hands on - so long as it doesn't look "Too Mexican" but officially-sponsored CS volunteer formations might well do their best to "pass" as paid-up members of the Mexican Armed Forces, with one or two uniform distinctions).
 
Here's a thought - what if military age citizens of Entente or Central Powers nations caught on the other side of the Atlantic (or Pacific) during the First & Second Great Wars were enrolled in 'Foreign Legions' attached to the host nation's army? (or 'Eagle Squadrons' attached to their air force during 2GW).
 
@Alterwright, @cortz#9, @ThirdyLovesAH - thank you most kindly for your replies; I'm a little amused by there being such a swift consensus (and those illustrations are rather good, though for my money the second is perhaps a little too "Can't believe it's not Soviet!").

I do imagine that, unlike the Red Army, Tsarist forces would have dress uniforms before the Great War's sequel (Also, curiously, they would have lacked the rank of major - that rank being abolished in the 19th century).

Thank You for your assistance!
They did. And during the Civil War as well. The White Armies were infamous for having some of the more “colorfully” designed uniforms.

The Kornilov Regiment is well known for its black and red uniforms. While I’m not sure if the regiment would still exist in TL-191, the Black Hundredists (the pro-monarchist Russian faction that is stated to be in power in Russia) have their own paramilitary force - the “yellowshirts”.


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ALSO - having just been so cheeky about the Second Mexican Empire, I'm now wondering what it's forces ought to look like at the time of the Great War & Second Great War; I know that they wore uniforms of a 'butternut' colour with more yellow in it than the Confederate brand, but I'm specifically wondering what their rank insignia might look like (One cannot decide if they'd follow Austria-Hungary, some other European power or borrow from CSA models).
Being of Mexican decent myself I've always been more than a bit curious about Mexico in TL-191, I can imagine Mexico using military insignias similar to the CSA or maybe France since the France did rule over Mexico for a period.

Not sure on the ranks and insignia myself, but here are some real life examples of the Mexican Army around the 1930s and 1940s. Marlowski’s examples are not far off from the real life stuff.

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Do we think that Confederate volunteers with the Emperor's forces would probably wear Mexican Army uniform? (Admittedly this probably depends on which volunteer formation they serve with; I suspect the Stalwarts would wear whatever they get their hands on - so long as it doesn't look "Too Mexican" but officially-sponsored CS volunteer formations might well do their best to "pass" as paid-up members of the Mexican Armed Forces, with one or two uniform distinctions).

Volunteers usually wear whatever stuff their army provided them, with their special insignia to set them apart sometimes, so that is highly possible. As far as I’m aware the Confederates didn’t officially intervene in the Mexican Civil War, but if their were advisors within the Mexican Army they likely would have worn their uniforms. It really depends.
 
They did. And during the Civil War as well. The White Armies were infamous for having some of the more “colorfully” designed uniforms.

The Kornilov Regiment is well known for its black and red uniforms. While I’m not sure if the regiment would still exist in TL-191, the Black Hundredists (the pro-monarchist Russian faction that is stated to be in power in Russia) have their own paramilitary force - the “yellowshirts”.


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Dear me, they do look spiffy - Evil, but spiffy!


Not sure on the ranks and insignia myself, but here are some real life examples of the Mexican Army around the 1930s and 1940s. Marlowski’s examples are not far off from the real life stuff.

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Interesting to note that these uniforms seem quite similar to the pre-War USA, with the exception of the Adrian helmet: one can imagine the Mexican Empire using the eagle-on-cactus as their helmet badge if they did use the Adrian.

I do suspect that the Mexican Imperial Army would probably have a less ‘Democratic’ look (ties being limited to officers, the rest with high collars?).

By the way, thank you for posting this reference!



Volunteers usually wear whatever stuff their army provided them, with their special insignia to set them apart sometimes, so that is highly possible. As far as I’m aware the Confederates didn’t officially intervene in the Mexican Civil War, but if their were advisors within the Mexican Army they likely would have worn their uniforms. It really depends.

Depends not least on how close an interest the United States happens to be taking today!
 
Interesting to note that these uniforms seem quite similar to the pre-War USA, with the exception of the Adrian helmet: one can imagine the Mexican Empire using the eagle-on-cactus as their helmet badge if they did use the Adrian.
Here are some closer views of the Mexican helmet. The badges in the front seem to differ depending on what kind of role the soldier plays. Engineers and Infantry seem to get their own badges.

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