TL-191 Uniform, weapons and equipment of the Secondary Combatants.

I don't doubt the Russians had such aircraft, i just question if they could have produced them in the quantities needed to affect a major bombing campaign like those of the western Allies. This Russia doesn't have the advantage of Stalin's industrialization programs to violently shove Russian industrial capacity forward by 4 decades, I doubt there's a Magnitogorsk or Tankograd in TL191.
Considering that the Soviet Union didn't mass produce them in OTL I would think the Russia of TL-191 probably wouldn't either but it was a fun idea for an alternate history photo but yeah not very plausible.
 
macchi-mc202.png

A Macchi MC. 202 Folgore fighter belonging to the 54th Fighter Squadron based in Sicily, circa 1943. The Macchi MC. 202 and the MC. 205 Veltro would serve as Italy's frontline fighter trough out the 1940s and early 1950s before being replaced the Reggiane Re.2009 turbo fighters in 1953. The two models would also serve in the air forces of Switzerland, Portugal, Argentina, Chile, Sweden, Persia, Egypt, Afghanistan, Greece, and India and would serve in various conflicts in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s, notably in the Greco-Italian War of 1948 and the Second War of the Pacific between Chile and Peru from 1952 to 1954.

In OTL, the Macchi MC 202 and other Italian Aircraft of WWII used a local copies of the German DB601 and DB 605 engines. ITTL, I really doubt that the Germans would share the engine with anybody but their allies (Austro-Hungarians, USA, etc). In which in my headcanon, the Italians through a secret military cooperation pact with Russia would have them being granted access to the technical data for the Klimov V-105 engine.
 
View attachment 607378
A Macchi MC. 202 Folgore fighter belonging to the 54th Fighter Squadron based in Sicily, circa 1943. The Macchi MC. 202 and the MC. 205 Veltro would serve as Italy's frontline fighter trough out the 1940s and early 1950s before being replaced the Reggiane Re.2009 turbo fighters in 1953. The two models would also serve in the air forces of Switzerland, Portugal, Argentina, Chile, Sweden, Persia, Egypt, Afghanistan, Greece, and India and would serve in various conflicts in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s, notably in the Greco-Italian War of 1948 and the Second War of the Pacific between Chile and Peru from 1952 to 1954.

In OTL, the Macchi MC 202 and other Italian Aircraft of WWII used a local copies of the German DB601 and DB 605 engines. ITTL, I really doubt that the Germans would share the engine with anybody but their allies (Austro-Hungarians, USA, etc). In which in my headcanon, the Italians through a secret military cooperation pact with Russia would have them being granted access to the technical data for the Klimov V-105 engine.
I wonder what happened to Mussolini in TL-191?
 
Russian Spitfire.png

A Supermarine Spitfire Mk. Vc Trop in the service of the 231st Fighter Division of the Imperial Russian Air Force in the Caucasus, circa late 1942. The British Spitfire would prove to be the most numerous foreign aircraft to serve in the Imperial Russian Air Force during the SGW with a total of 2,105 Spitfires of the Mk. II, Mk. V, and Mk. IX variations (including some 211 that were assembled in Astrakhan from parts shipped over by the British via Persia.) The Spitfire proved to be a popular aircraft with it's Russian Pilots, who liked the planes handling characteristics.
 
given that Italy never went fascist, I'd imagine he remained a Socialist Rabble-rouser.
He is mentioned briefly on the interwar books. As the Italian politician who claimed he could make the trains run on time. But never says that he was successful or not. Probably not as Italy stays out of the Second great war too.
 
He is mentioned briefly on the interwar books. As the Italian politician who claimed he could make the trains run on time. But never says that he was successful or not. Probably not as Italy stays out of the Second great war too.
Plot twist: he was head of the Italian transportation ministry. :p
 

A photo of a 76mm Divisional Field Gun M1942 at a military park in Russia, circa 2008. NMZ-2 as this artillery model would be known would be the definitive field gun of the Imperial Russian Army of the Second Great War, in which it was used in multiple roles such as in the field artillery and anti-barrel roles. Large number of these weapons would be used to great effect against CP forces and vehicles.
 
I wonder how German Naval Technology would evolve in-universe?
I just finished re-reading "In at the Death" and George Enos mentions that the German Navy at the end of the 2nd great War had no Aircraft carriers, so i guess there's no "graf Zeppelin" in this timeline. I'd imagine the Baden-class and other late-1GW battleship types would still be in service, and maybe the Bismarck-class.

It's interesting that Turtledove Didn't follow the route of naval aviation, given that the German were actually very interested in it during WWI. the Zeppelins, Seaplane tenders, and other such assets they experimented with would naturally lend themselves to Carrier or at least Aviation development.
I'd also expect the long-range maritime patrol bombers ala the Fw-200 would be in service to patrol the North Sea and the Baltic.
 
I just finished re-reading "In at the Death" and George Enos mentions that the German Navy at the end of the 2nd great War had no Aircraft carriers, so i guess there's no "graf Zeppelin" in this timeline. I'd imagine the Baden-class and other late-1GW battleship types would still be in service, and maybe the Bismarck-class.

It's interesting that Turtledove Didn't follow the route of naval aviation, given that the German were actually very interested in it during WWI. the Zeppelins, Seaplane tenders, and other such assets they experimented with would naturally lend themselves to Carrier or at least Aviation development.
I'd also expect the long-range maritime patrol bombers ala the Fw-200 would be in service to patrol the North Sea and the Baltic.
With russia and france rearming they probably focus on the army and airforce
 
With russia and france rearming they probably focus on the army and airforce
Kaiser Wilhelm II remained in power in this timeline, and the High Seas Fleet was always his baby. he wouldn't allow it to wither, especially since, from what i gather, the Royal Navy remains a threat to the Kaiserliche Marine even after the First Great War.
 
Kaiser Wilhelm II remained in power in this timeline, and the High Seas Fleet was always his baby. he wouldn't allow it to wither, especially since, from what i gather, the Royal Navy remains a threat to the Kaiserliche Marine even after the First Great War.
I agree with this. The British were able to land troops on continental Europe easily, so the RN must definitely still be a threat.

That being said, this isn't incompatible with the KM lacking aircraft carriers. The Germans may still believe that battleships are the queens of the sea and put their resources towards those.
 
That being said, this isn't incompatible with the KM lacking aircraft carriers. The Germans may still believe that battleships are the queens of the sea and put their resources towards those.
I'm not convinced - IOTL, it was pretty obvious that airpower was the way forward for any modern navy. I can't imagine a victorious KM not having at least explored the idea.
 
I'm not convinced - IOTL, it was pretty obvious that airpower was the way forward for any modern navy. I can't imagine a victorious KM not having at least explored the idea.

Well, as I stated above, the KM DID explore the idea, in the form of the Zeppelins and Seaplane tenders. Their lack of mention could simply be an oversight on the author's part.

and History would disagree with you on Air power being "Obvious" given that all the major navies entered the Second World War with major Battleship construction underway, and even "progressive" fleets like the IJN still considering Carriers to be subsidiary to the Battleship Line, even after Pearl Harbor.
 
I agree with this. The British were able to land troops on continental Europe easily, so the RN must definitely still be a threat.

That being said, this isn't incompatible with the KM lacking aircraft carriers. The Germans may still believe that battleships are the queens of the sea and put their resources towards those.
on not having carriers, Not to mention that, unlike the US and Japan, the "targets" of the German Navy were well within land-based Bomber range. even the coparatively small Heinkel and Junkers bombers of the OTL Luftwaffe could make it across the North Sea and as far west as Ireland.
 
I just finished re-reading "In at the Death" and George Enos mentions that the German Navy at the end of the 2nd great War had no Aircraft carriers, so i guess there's no "graf Zeppelin" in this timeline. I'd imagine the Baden-class and other late-1GW battleship types would still be in service, and maybe the Bismarck-class.

It's interesting that Turtledove Didn't follow the route of naval aviation, given that the German were actually very interested in it during WWI. the Zeppelins, Seaplane tenders, and other such assets they experimented with would naturally lend themselves to Carrier or at least Aviation development.
I'd also expect the long-range maritime patrol bombers ala the Fw-200 would be in service to patrol the North Sea and the Baltic.

I've always been bummed out by this inconsistency/missed opportunity by Dr. Turtledove. How can there NOT be any semblance of an air force by the Germans?

I first noticed this when I was reading the Great War trilogy part of TL-191. No mention of airships? Not even in the USA and Germany? I always felt that, besides the dogfights, we should have read about American Zeppelins being used on the Confederates and British Canadians. I even did two posts on it!

Do the books even give a reason as to why Germany lacks the Graf Zeppelin during the SGW? I don't remember.
 
No Its mentioned by Carson I believe at the end of EaD that the Germans didn't put or hadn't put any carriers into service. My guess was that Germany took an Italian thought process to Naval Avation with Land based bombers. Since they knew they would be forced to fight a two front war from the get go. Andits stated that A-H and the OE are falling apart at the start of the 2GW.
 
Here are some visual ideas for a Second Great War German Imperial Navy.

Kaiser Wilhelm II class Battleship

Yorck class Heavy Cruiser

Type 1930 class Destroyer
 
Top