Is it possible for the South and North to have reconciliation and re-unified peaceful? By the early 1900s sounds about right, but what affects would this have on the world?
TL 191: Reconciliation and reunification of the North and South
- Thread starter Historyman 14
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Well, David did explore this in quite an amount of detail in his continuation timeline. Ergo, he also had to deal with the topic of the CSA going all-out totalitarian and militarily aggressive in the SGW, and the lasting damage that did to the already tense USA-CSA relations in TL-191. An earlier reconcilliation would obviously yield different developments. After the end of the SGW, there's a lot of obvious incentive of "starting anew", confronting the past head-on. If reconcilliation occured at any point before that, there's probably be less will to do very thorough reforms in both parts of the reunited country.
It would have to be before the Second Mexican War and Remembrance and all of that stuff. If say, the CS economy crashes after purchasing Cuba and the US helps it get back together then I'm sure the two nations could remain on decent relations.
What effects? The USA wouldn't side with Germany as the Second Mexican War hasn't convinced them of the need of European allies. Britain and France will be on worse terms with the CSA than in 191 because Longstreet hasn't manumitted the slaves - he doesn't need to. Slavery itself will die eventually, probably around 1890-1900. Quite likely the US takes its alliance with the CS and falls into isolation, leading to a world similar to OTL.
Any time after 1882, I think the CSA would have to be dead for any sort of reconciliation. Possibly invert the roles of Canada and CS after 1914 and the CS can be dead easily enough.
- BNC
What effects? The USA wouldn't side with Germany as the Second Mexican War hasn't convinced them of the need of European allies. Britain and France will be on worse terms with the CSA than in 191 because Longstreet hasn't manumitted the slaves - he doesn't need to. Slavery itself will die eventually, probably around 1890-1900. Quite likely the US takes its alliance with the CS and falls into isolation, leading to a world similar to OTL.
Any time after 1882, I think the CSA would have to be dead for any sort of reconciliation. Possibly invert the roles of Canada and CS after 1914 and the CS can be dead easily enough.
- BNC
I think he is referring to a reconciliation before the end of canon TL-191, so somewhere between 1862 and 1944.
Also I doubt the CS would be occupied nearly a century after it was crushed - I cannot recall any historical examples of occupation that lasted even remotely this long. I think Imperial Japan would come as the closest example from OTL, and that became quite peaceful after 7 years (1945-1952) of occupation. Granted, Japan didn't become a US state or anything, but I don't think that would be enough to drive on a resistance movement for ten times as long. 20 or 30 years maybe, but certainly not 70.
- BNC
Look at how violent the Reconstruction era was OTL and the Confederacy was only around for 4 years. In TL-191 the Confederacy has been its own nation for 80 years and theres the whole Freedom Party deal. The US troops are using Black Confederates as auxillary forces. Maybe my century long occupation is a bit much, but US forces will be there for decades
As I said, 30 years would be a reasonable expectation. I think the Freedom Party, except for the higher-ups in its ranks, will be seen as the organisation that brought the destruction of the CSA and won't be widely supported at all (even if the USA wasn't murdering dozens of hostages for the briefest mention of it).
- BNC
I'm sure the hostage taking and public executions on top of US soldiers overlooking the justified murders/rapes of White Confederates by Black Confederate auxillaries will radicalize plenty.
The Freedom Party may very well be hated, but that won't make the Whigs suddenly accept the yoke.
I don't think they would. I mean, look at the Lost Cause mythology, I think we'd see a lot of that with Featherston and the Freedom party post-war.
In 1944? The Whigs don't really exist any more.
Also, immediately after the war there would obviously be some resistance, but once 1/2 or so of the population has grown up with US education etc, there won't be much of a revolting force left. The books only go for about 6 months after the war, so we don't see the full extent of what the CSA would look like, but Canada had almost completely calmed down by 1944. If not for the 2GW, I don't think they would have revolted at all in 1943.
- BNC
They aren't a particularly strong organized political party, that doesn't mean their supporters don't exist. My point was that even if the Freedom Party were discredited, that doesn't mean that the CSA is discredited.
I also have to disagree with you in terms of assimilation to the US, look at Estonia, 50 years of Russian rule and yet still they rose up. Nations can be hard to kill. And the CSA is a long established nation by 1944.
Estonia was incorporated into the USSR more or less as a puppet state, rather that annexation. Then, when the USSR fell, all of its puppet states reminded the world that they were still nations. In the CSA's case, they weren't seeking to make it a puppet with its own leaders, but to (re)make them a formal part of the union that answered only to the US government.
I am not denying that violence and stuff would occur for a while, but the CSA would not be allowed the semi-freedom that Estonia had and would be subject to whatever the USA wanted. Which would mean educating its people. Once the people are all raised to think like US people rather than CS but under occupation, which would take 30 or so years, then it will be much more peaceful.
There will be some die-hards that think the CSA should be independent, but either they will be too few in number, or they will revolt and be crushed.
- BNC