TL-191: Pax Romana - Neutrality for the Kingdom of Italy (1914-1944)

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Alterwright, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. lukedalton Well-Known Member

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    It's WWI nobody partecipate in that massacres without a traumas and while by a lesser degree (and i really really doubt that WW2 have been a walk in the park), in the end A-H will depend on Germany support as OTL, not considering that in the books is stated that just before/during the second great war there are been big revolt from various minority even with the use of suicide bombers (yes this is a big traumas) and that even if victorious it's far from robust; basically by the end of second conflict the Hapsburg Empire will be a fully owned subsidiary of the German Empire and that will do great things for the legitimancy of current enstablishment.

    Italy relations with A-H will flux between bad and horrible but avoiding two world wars and having a more modern nation system mean that by 1944 Italy will be more stable and rich of his eastern neighbourgh...and this mean stretching his diplomatic muscle, even because the ethnic violence hitting A-H will be a serious concern in many italian political circles.
    Regarding who's the attacker in a very probable Italian-Austrian confrontation, well it's hard to say. Italy can rightly sense that the Empire is on his last leg and demand concession and things devolve in a war, on the other hand A-H can try to eliminate the last big problem left or Italy support of balkans and checz freedom fighters will cause a 'punitive expedition'.
    Germany reaction is important but also not a guarantee that they come to save A-H, they have just come through a great war fought on her territory, his industrial core greatly hit (the Rhineland) and frankly their neighbourgh seem always in need that somebody save him and by now doesn't look too well. Maybe they decide to stop the plug and divide the empire in something less troublesome.

    Btw, Spain while officially of the entente remained neutral during the war, so it's very probable that will find herself at least diplomatically isolated so they will probably go to the only great power not controlled by Germany left
     
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  2. Nivek Resident Videogame Expert

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    All is guess but the italians like always, want their country to win over anything

    for me it ended in a meh...nothing changes, both nations try to sable-rattle but with germany superbomb..better not rock the boat that much
     
  3. lukedalton Well-Known Member

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    A nuclear weapon is not a magic thing, it's just a weapon and at the time neither in number or power big enough to be the harbinger of the apocalyptic that we are all familiar and as said A-H is stated to have been greatly hit by internal terrorism and revolt, add the consequences of a great war (that usually doesn't make any of his partecipants more stable or rich...unless you are OTL USA and protected by two oceans) and frankly the chance of continued survival of the A-H Empire look not very good.
    If we also add the fact the principal backer of A-H aka Germany had to deal with the destruction caused by the Anglo-French invasion and frankly with the post-war economic blues, coming always at the rescue of Austria (both military and economically) can be unpopular, many will probably support the 'absorb them anyway' option.

    Finally, Italy by this stage will have enough fund and know how (Fermi will remain in Italy ITTL...and yes you need some big butterfly trap for him to exist but Turtedove in this series had done worse much worse regarding them) to get her own working superbomb in some years, probably roughly on par of OTL UK, so even that kind of menace at best buy time.
     
  4. Nivek Resident Videogame Expert

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    Ditto the US and germany and they're very well, i hate the cliche AH have to die to fullify italia irredentia.
     
  5. lukedalton Well-Known Member

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    It's not that AH have to die for Italy to get his irredente land, it's the fact that A-H was not modern nation and his leaderships was basically clueless or too coward to do the necessary reform till too late; event like a great war put soo much pressure on a system state that only the most resilient survive unscathed or even with limited changes and A-H system, like Russia and the Ottoman one was the less resilient (hell even Italy had a more modern one).
    Plus we don't how well the USA and Germany are in TL-191 after the war is over and both have suffered much having to fight off an invasion that penetrated a lot in their territory, it's only said that both nations agree to not make any other country obtain the superbomb but also that this effort will be probably futile and that their relations are becoming colder. The USA is openly stated that don't have the resources and the will to fight off Japan and basically accept to recognize her conquest, so i don't think that they are so well, and i doubt that occupy the former CSA will be cheap and easy
     
  6. Nivek Resident Videogame Expert

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    under which evidence? OTL they take a war to destroy, here they won(or survive as here try do belittle their effort) two and all their enemies are destroyed
     
  7. lukedalton Well-Known Member

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    The fact that A-H had lost the war was not what caused his demise, even Emperor Karl and the rest of the leaderships know that if A-h doesn't bailed out of the war quickly it will be mooth if they win or lose due to both the damage, the rising nationalities, the disaffection with the current leaderships and the increasily dependence on Germany...and this one year and an half before the end of the OTL war. Sure many kept fighting, but the real problem always come after the shooting is over and people come home; and i don't belittle their effort, but unless you are separated by the fight by an ocean and sell a lot of goods while arriving late at the party...a world war don't make you any good and let you in a worse state than before.
    Well Italy is still there and is basically untouched while A-H and Germany...not, there is also Romania, there are also in the Empire the Bosnian, Romanians, Serbians and others that are in launching terrorist campaign, so i doubt that the internal situation is very quiet and overall friendly.
     
  8. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Italian Armored Cars / Wheeled Tanks - 1920s: Alternative AFVs?

    And now for something completely different.

    Behold! The weird wheeled Italian AFVs.

    swSnYXf.jpg

    ^^^ --- Ansaldo-Pavesi Modello 1925, with Hotchkiss MG mounted in the turret.

    YlvTr4H.jpg

    ^^^ --- Ansaldo-Pavesi Modello 1926, with Hotchkiss MG mounted in the turret and modified wheels for added traction.

    qd9DJml.jpg

    ^^^ --- Ansaldo-Pavesi Modello 1926, armed with 75mm Schneider gun. Armour was between 4mm and 16mm thick.

    Think these babies would see service in the Italian Army? Probably not.
     
  9. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Right. So in a sense a kind of pseudo-country would be made out of a fortress. And since the Leonine City had offices and buildings that were already being used by the denizens of the Vatican, then it would being included in all this.

    The Popes may not have a country anymore, but at least they get a fortress now.
     
  10. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Something occurred to me. In this timeline we may be seeing an Italian Army that is more accustomed to fighting colonial wars in an effort to pacify its inhabitants. Experience would reflect this, as well as equipment, gear, and any armored fighting vehicles it has.

    a5a8e8a14caa44538455091850a87053.jpg

    africa5.jpg

    bafe6838af5f51028a55f3181ee8ccf4.jpg
     
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  11. Allochronian Well-Known Member

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    It's not a pseudo-country. A pseudo-country would more accurately describe Sealand.

    Castel San Angelo would be the only thing that would be considered a "fortress". There would be an open question if there would be an extension to the walls from Vatican City all the way to Castel San Angelo. Regardless, Leonine City would function more like a typical country with a commoner population and access to a body of water, by comparison to what the Pope got in OTL.
     
  12. lukedalton Well-Known Member

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    But A-H (and in minor note France) will still be considered the most probable adversary that Italy will have in a war, so the army will train and equip to fight such conflict as it will be considered the most dangerous; colonial conflict will be fought principally by colonial troops like the Ascari with the addition of italian troops