While not explicitly related to Italy, it is kind of related - given the different political leanings of the colonial powers in Africa that surround Ethiopia, who would they be able to look to for trade and modernization? If prolonged border skirmishes with the Italians are what they can expect, who could Ethiopia reach out to for diplomatic and military assistance? Would it be the British, despite the change in their government?
TL-191: Pax Romana - Neutrality for the Kingdom of Italy (1914-1944)
- Thread starter Alterwright
- Start date
Much depend on what happen in Europe, British (and French) help will depend on their relations with Italy and their intention on the future; basically while initially they can help (maybe even using Abyssinia as a quiet place where some weapon test can be done) at a certain stage getting the italians on board or at least achieve their benevolent neutrality will be a more important objective and so AByssinia will be throw to the wolfs.
The Austrian can give some help due to their 'situation' with Italy and the same can be said for the Ottomans but from the first i don't expect much and while the second can help much more there are political, religious and logistical problem (better remember that Ethiopia don't have an independent sea access and need to use europen owned ports).
Maybe the Russian decide to help them
So, since the Italians never to go to war in in both world wars, I realize that the Arditi would likely not be formed.
Sad 😭 because those Arditi are really badass troops but I could see them forming in Libya when they trying to repress Revolt there.
Hard to say. They were formed specifically as a response the conditions of Great War - men who volunteered to storm and overrun entrenched positions and fight at close quarters.
Without that, there would be no real need for them. Colonial revolts would be suppressed by what the Italians already had.
WINTER FOR CHURCHILL AND GREAT BRITAIN (AND FRANCE TOO) - (1941-43 Part II)
The Second Great War saw the force of the Entente being very successful in the initial stage, liberating Belgium, conquering the Netherland and invading Germany itself while in the East, the Russian army retook almost all Ukraine and made a lot of inroads in the so-called Kingdom of Poland (even if at very great cost) all while the Hapsburg Empire was fighting desperately to stop the russian horde to invade the country.
In Africa, entente colonial troops, like in the previous war slowly conquered the German colonies, hindered more by the logistic than an effective resistance by the local forces...but everyone involed know that this battle were not important as the real outcome of the war will be decided in Europe like 25 years before.
Many Italian politicians and nationalist, seeing the Entente victories, begun to press for the Kingdom to join them and finally fullfill the Risorgimento by taking all the rightful Italian land and obliterate the main enemy of the nation; nevertheless, both Matteotti and the King were adamant in maintaining neutrality, at least till the right moment. Decision that likes in the previous Great War, the majority of the population greatly approved and unlike that time, now there were a lot less protest by nationalist eager to enter the conflict, as the price of the previous one payed by all the participants was a too great warning to ignore.
This doesn't mean that the Italian armed forces were not active during this period, a costly but necessary mobilization was done during the first months of the war just in case one side (or even both) decided to invade and use Italian soil to fight their own wars, just like centuries ago and with tension running all over the border, incidents were bound to happen; especially after the French invasion of Switzerland.
Operation 'Douce nuit' was the creation of General Alphonse Juin, a veteran of the Great War and many colonial conflicts, his plan was to launch an invasion of South Germany through Switzerland in a manner similar to the German plan during the previous war; so in August 1941 Entente troops violated Swiss neutrality after having sent a message to the government in Berna, to let the troops pass and no harm will be done to the civilian population and infrastructure, in the same moment the first anglo-french soldiers entered Switzerland, the German army launched her Counter invasion, deciding that was better fighting the enemy in foreign soil than in their own territory.
The Swiss government with heavy heart and much debate decided that fighting two invasions at the same time was undoable so choose to retreat the army and much of the population in the National Redoubt and let the invaders fight each other's while hope for the best.
This situation brought further problems to Italy, from refugee running away from the fight to another front to control and from where trouble can and will come.
There were at least 500 violations of the Italian air space done by both Entente and Central Powers aircraft just in the first year of the war, Regia Aeronautica routinely intercepted them making air battle a frequent event in the Italian sky, by the end of the conflict more than 200 hostile aircraft were forced to land while 60 were downed by the Italian air force and AA batteries.
This interception causes great tension between Italy, French and Germany, tension exacerbated by a series of bombardment done by both side on the cities of Piedmont and Liguria due to navigational errors; the German also attempt to destroy the AA guns near Aosta using a group of saboteurs as retaliation for the downing of many aircraft but they were intercepted by an Italian patrol and forced to retreat.
As the capital of a neutral power with the capacity to enforce his status, Rome become the hotbed of 'behind the scene and easy to negate' diplomatic contact between the two side, especially regarding the exchange of prisoners and their general wellbeing but also of a lot of intelligence gathering effort and attempt of swaying the Italian public opinion; creating a lot of migraine to the italian authority. This cloak and dagger activities also see the 'Servizio I' (the national foreign intelligence gathering service) as an active participant, as one of the supporters of all separatist and autonomist group in Austria-Hungary even if during the war such help was much much more discrete due to diplomatic reason, still a series of unresolved murder and kidnapping happened in this period targeting slavic political activist resident in Italy and Hapsburg citizens.
While many suspected foul plays it was generally agreed to not pursue the matter for not causing a diplomatic incident so big to be considered a casus belli.
The fortune of war of the Entente by the end of 1943 were ancient history as the Germans armies reconquered Belgium and Netherland, while smashing the Tsarist forces in the east and strange and ominous menace were made by the Kaiser against the Entente powers; menace that become very concrete in the spring of 1944 with the destruction of Petrograd with first use of an atomic bomb; the following nuclear exchange changed the world and ended the war causing the collapsing the Entente government and starting a new era but in this initial period of chaos, the Italian government decided that this was her moment and so the 10 June 1940 the Kingdom of Italy declared war to the Entente (but not in any way joining the Central Powers) and launched an invasion of France.
The brief two weeks war between Italy and the Anglo-French alliance is considered by many historians, politicians and common people a blatant attempt to easy conquest and killing a dead man and very few in Italy contest this description, nevertheless this decision taken by Matteotti (with the full support of the King) has always be considered a good one both by his contemporary and the current generation as the nation already feel robbed during the previous Great War and nobody was willing to repeat the experience.
The Second Great War saw the force of the Entente being very successful in the initial stage, liberating Belgium, conquering the Netherland and invading Germany itself while in the East, the Russian army retook almost all Ukraine and made a lot of inroads in the so-called Kingdom of Poland (even if at very great cost) all while the Hapsburg Empire was fighting desperately to stop the russian horde to invade the country.
In Africa, entente colonial troops, like in the previous war slowly conquered the German colonies, hindered more by the logistic than an effective resistance by the local forces...but everyone involed know that this battle were not important as the real outcome of the war will be decided in Europe like 25 years before.
Many Italian politicians and nationalist, seeing the Entente victories, begun to press for the Kingdom to join them and finally fullfill the Risorgimento by taking all the rightful Italian land and obliterate the main enemy of the nation; nevertheless, both Matteotti and the King were adamant in maintaining neutrality, at least till the right moment. Decision that likes in the previous Great War, the majority of the population greatly approved and unlike that time, now there were a lot less protest by nationalist eager to enter the conflict, as the price of the previous one payed by all the participants was a too great warning to ignore.
This doesn't mean that the Italian armed forces were not active during this period, a costly but necessary mobilization was done during the first months of the war just in case one side (or even both) decided to invade and use Italian soil to fight their own wars, just like centuries ago and with tension running all over the border, incidents were bound to happen; especially after the French invasion of Switzerland.
Operation 'Douce nuit' was the creation of General Alphonse Juin, a veteran of the Great War and many colonial conflicts, his plan was to launch an invasion of South Germany through Switzerland in a manner similar to the German plan during the previous war; so in August 1941 Entente troops violated Swiss neutrality after having sent a message to the government in Berna, to let the troops pass and no harm will be done to the civilian population and infrastructure, in the same moment the first anglo-french soldiers entered Switzerland, the German army launched her Counter invasion, deciding that was better fighting the enemy in foreign soil than in their own territory.
The Swiss government with heavy heart and much debate decided that fighting two invasions at the same time was undoable so choose to retreat the army and much of the population in the National Redoubt and let the invaders fight each other's while hope for the best.
This situation brought further problems to Italy, from refugee running away from the fight to another front to control and from where trouble can and will come.
There were at least 500 violations of the Italian air space done by both Entente and Central Powers aircraft just in the first year of the war, Regia Aeronautica routinely intercepted them making air battle a frequent event in the Italian sky, by the end of the conflict more than 200 hostile aircraft were forced to land while 60 were downed by the Italian air force and AA batteries.
This interception causes great tension between Italy, French and Germany, tension exacerbated by a series of bombardment done by both side on the cities of Piedmont and Liguria due to navigational errors; the German also attempt to destroy the AA guns near Aosta using a group of saboteurs as retaliation for the downing of many aircraft but they were intercepted by an Italian patrol and forced to retreat.
As the capital of a neutral power with the capacity to enforce his status, Rome become the hotbed of 'behind the scene and easy to negate' diplomatic contact between the two side, especially regarding the exchange of prisoners and their general wellbeing but also of a lot of intelligence gathering effort and attempt of swaying the Italian public opinion; creating a lot of migraine to the italian authority. This cloak and dagger activities also see the 'Servizio I' (the national foreign intelligence gathering service) as an active participant, as one of the supporters of all separatist and autonomist group in Austria-Hungary even if during the war such help was much much more discrete due to diplomatic reason, still a series of unresolved murder and kidnapping happened in this period targeting slavic political activist resident in Italy and Hapsburg citizens.
While many suspected foul plays it was generally agreed to not pursue the matter for not causing a diplomatic incident so big to be considered a casus belli.
The fortune of war of the Entente by the end of 1943 were ancient history as the Germans armies reconquered Belgium and Netherland, while smashing the Tsarist forces in the east and strange and ominous menace were made by the Kaiser against the Entente powers; menace that become very concrete in the spring of 1944 with the destruction of Petrograd with first use of an atomic bomb; the following nuclear exchange changed the world and ended the war causing the collapsing the Entente government and starting a new era but in this initial period of chaos, the Italian government decided that this was her moment and so the 10 June 1940 the Kingdom of Italy declared war to the Entente (but not in any way joining the Central Powers) and launched an invasion of France.
The brief two weeks war between Italy and the Anglo-French alliance is considered by many historians, politicians and common people a blatant attempt to easy conquest and killing a dead man and very few in Italy contest this description, nevertheless this decision taken by Matteotti (with the full support of the King) has always be considered a good one both by his contemporary and the current generation as the nation already feel robbed during the previous Great War and nobody was willing to repeat the experience.
