TL-191: Navy Blue and Gray - Naval Forces of the USA and CSA

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A recognition chart that was made by the Office of Naval Intelligence which show silhouettes of the capital ships and carriers of the various naval forces of the world as of Spring of 1941. As evident from this chart, the top 4 navies of the world were the United States, Japan, United Kingdom, and Germany respectively. This chart also features smaller navies such as Russia, Greece, and the Confederacy with their capital ships represented on this chart. Many of the ships on the chart are pointed out as being either under construction, in 2nd line roles, or their existence being unconfirmed as well as some ships under construction having number codes as the ONI don't have their actual names recorded.
 
us_navy_capital_ship_and_aircraft_carrier_chart_by_marlowski_dekok0e-fullview.png


A recognition chart that was made by the Office of Naval Intelligence which show silhouettes of the capital ships and carriers of the various naval forces of the world as of Spring of 1941. As evident from this chart, the top 4 navies of the world were the United States, Japan, United Kingdom, and Germany respectively. This chart also features smaller navies such as Russia, Greece, and the Confederacy with their capital ships represented on this chart. Many of the ships on the chart are pointed out as being either under construction, in 2nd line roles, or their existence being unconfirmed as well as some ships under construction having number codes as the ONI don't have their actual names recorded.
I really like this. It gives a good idea of what each looks like, as well as who is a naval power with notable assets. I'm surprised Haiti is on here actually. I'm guessing those two ships are some kind of coastal defense ship? Hard to say. What does make them stand out though is the very tall masts. So, I'll remember those.
 
WIP Progress - Sandwich Islands Campaign, 1941-1943 - USN Submarine Task Force 9 and "Taifun Gruppe"

This is just snippet from my list. Not all formations will be listed. Information is still subject to change.

Task Force 9

Submarine Division 12:
  • USS Sauger (SS-212)
  • USS Garrupa (SS-214)
  • USS Barb (SS-216)
  • USS Nerka (SS-217)
  • USS Turbot (SS-219)
Despite being a secondary theater of the larger war, some of the most decorated USN warships of the Second Great War earned their fame fighting in the Sandwich Islands Campaign. Among them were several submarines of Task Force 9, Division 12. Sinking numerous merchant ships on their supply runs to the many island outposts of the Pacific, these submarines would also earn the distinction of taking on some of the most daring and risky naval operations of the war. Several Japanese, British, Australian, and New Zealand warships would also be collectively sunk by these submarines. USS Barb would go on to sink the damaged Japanese light carrier Hakuyo in the aftermath of the decisive Battle of Nihoa, and would later successfully complete a dangerous war patrol in the Marianas that would see her sink thousands of the tons of Japanese shipping. Despite enjoying great success, the USN's Silent Service would pay a heavy price in the Pacific. Almost half of Division 12 would be lost before the end of the campaign.

Submarine Division "Taifun":
  • SMS U-807
  • SMS U-882
  • SMS U-884
  • SMS U-890
  • SMS U-891
  • SMS U-894
  • SMS U-895
  • SMS U-898
With the capture of Deutsch Samoa in July 1941 and the fall of Deutsch Neuguinea in January 1942, the devastated remnants of the Rabaulgeschwader and Samoageschwader (Rabaul Squadron and Samoa Squadron) retreated across the Pacific toward the Sandwich Islands for safety. These remnants would form the "Taifun Gruppe", consisting of the light cruiser SMS Schweinfurt, the destroyers SMS Z62 and SMS Z69, as well as eight U-boats. The light cruiser and destroyers would be folded into American surface divisions, while the submarines formed their own division under American ComSubPac command. While this arrangement was not ideal, with language barriers being the least of their problems, circumstances in the Pacific forced the Germans to cooperate closely with the Americans. The submarines of Taifun Gruppe would contribute much to the overall progress of the Pacific Campaign, sinking Japanese, British, Austrialian, and New Zealand merchant shipping across the central and south Pacific. Covertly, they would also take part in numerous raids on several Japanese and British held islands, including their former colonies, either by bombarding installations or inserting marine raiding units behind enemy lines.
 
I really like this. It gives a good idea of what each looks like, as well as who is a naval power with notable assets. I'm surprised Haiti is on here actually. I'm guessing those two ships are some kind of coastal defense ship? Hard to say. What does make them stand out though is the very tall masts. So, I'll remember those.
Those two Haitian ships were former USN Pre-Dreadnoughts that the Union sold to Haiti post-war, and like you said, used as coastal defense ships.
 
us_navy_capital_ship_and_aircraft_carrier_chart_by_marlowski_dekok0e-fullview.png


A recognition chart that was made by the Office of Naval Intelligence which show silhouettes of the capital ships and carriers of the various naval forces of the world as of Spring of 1941. As evident from this chart, the top 4 navies of the world were the United States, Japan, United Kingdom, and Germany respectively. This chart also features smaller navies such as Russia, Greece, and the Confederacy with their capital ships represented on this chart. Many of the ships on the chart are pointed out as being either under construction, in 2nd line roles, or their existence being unconfirmed as well as some ships under construction having number codes as the ONI don't have their actual names recorded.
I like it. But what about the U.S.S. Maine? She was a battleship mentioned in the last book, serving with the Oregon when U.S. troops were landed on the confederate coast in North Carolina.
 
It looks like that in tl-191 that all of the battleships in the otl 8-8 plan was completed as battleships or carrier. i am going to assume that the second class of battlecruisers in that plan were cancelled the japan to get the rest of the ships completed. how many of the cpmpleted american battleships are post first war hulls.

 
It looks like that in tl-191 that all of the battleships in the otl 8-8 plan was completed as battleships or carrier. i am going to assume that the second class of battlecruisers in that plan were cancelled the japan to get the rest of the ships completed. how many of the cpmpleted american battleships are post first war hulls.


In our world, around 5 to 6 classes of US battleships were post-WW1 designs. The US ships would likely see some very noticeable changes, one of which being not considering how to fit through a Panama Canal. There are also no naval treaties as far as we know.

Japan is in a better spot in some regards in this timeline. Its likely that some classes or cancelled ships that weren't completed in our timeline might be made. Amagi would be a special case - an earthquake in our timeline damaged her so severely that she was scrapped, while Akagi was completed as a carrier due to naval treaties.
 
In our world, around 5 to 6 classes of US battleships were post-WW1 designs. The US ships would likely see some very noticeable changes, one of which being not considering how to fit through a Panama Canal. There are also no naval treaties as far as we know.

Japan is in a better spot in some regards in this timeline. Its likely that some classes or cancelled ships that weren't completed in our timeline might be made. Amagi would be a special case - an earthquake in our timeline damaged her so severely that she was scrapped, while Akagi was completed as a carrier due to naval treaties.
The US Navy would certainly have it's hands full in both the Atlantic and the Pacific (at least for the first two years of the war.)
 
The US Navy would certainly have it's hands full in both the Atlantic and the Pacific (at least for the first two years of the war.)
Yeah, it would. I like to think that the Pacific War was a lot more lively that Turtledove makes it out to be. That's my head canon at least. The submarine war, for example, would be very active.
 
In our world, around 5 to 6 classes of US battleships were post-WW1 designs. The US ships would likely see some very noticeable changes, one of which being not considering how to fit through a Panama Canal. There are also no naval treaties as far as we know.

Japan is in a better spot in some regards in this timeline. Its likely that some classes or cancelled ships that weren't completed in our timeline might be made. Amagi would be a special case - an earthquake in our timeline damaged her so severely that she was scrapped, while Akagi was completed as a carrier due to naval treaties.
Amagi was only destroyed* because of the WNT meant she was being converted to a carrier and thus still on the stocks when the quake hit, otherwise she would have been finished by the time the quake hit

This said some choices seem odd, Kaga and Akagi being converted to carriers despite no WNT, when the plan was to build a Hosho sister named Shokaku, and Japan having the money to finish the Kiis after the quake killed their economy, with the last two being named after Fuji (afloat and in service when the naming would be done) and Kawachi (just blew herself up messily in OTL), rather than the historically chosen Sagami and Suruga**. Admittedly the latter is easy to butterfly



*And by destroyed I mean not worth completing as a carrier, she is currently the only one of the "Cherry Trees" with her hull still afloat

**While they weren't officially named in the contracts for the hulls, the contracts for the guns stated the names
 
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Photos from the Battle of Nihoa: August 15-16, 1942

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^^^ ——— USS Trenton (CVE-27) making her way out to sea on the morning of August 13th, 1942. USS Chapultepec (CVE-28) would join her.

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^^^——— A Japanese dive bomber plummets into the sea after taking an intense barrage of AA fire from the American task force, afternoon, August 15th, 1942. After hitting the Japanese light carriers Kuroyo and Hakuyo, strike aircraft from each carrier managed to find the American force and dove in for the attack. This photo was taken from the bridge of Chapultepec and shows Trenton taking evasive maneuvers.

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^^^——— A damaged Japanese fighter plunges into a suicidal dive on the Trenton, after being shot at by US F3A Bobcat fighters.
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^^^——— Destroyer USS Townsend (far right) and light cruiser USS Yonkers (far left) take evasive action as a Japanese torpedo bomber attempts to fly under their flak screen. By the end of the day, Japanese strike force would loose light carrier Kuroyo, with moderate damage to her sister ship Hakuyo. Trenton and Chapultepec would also suffer damaged in this battle.

My take on the carrier battle Turtledove mentions in the book "Drive to the East", occurring in 1942.
 
The Great Climax - The Second Battle of Bermuda
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A photo of two Royal Navy flying boats stationed in Bermuda prior to the second battle for the island, circa 1943.

Ever since it's inception in 1775 during the American Revolution, the primary enemy of the United States Navy (otherwise known as the Union Navy) for much of it's wars was the Royal Navy. During these conflict such as the Second Mexican War and the First Great War, the one island that was contested the most between both navies in the Atlantic was Bermuda, which covered an area of 20.5 square miles and was 768 miles away from Cape Hetteras, North Carolina, thus making it's location an ideal one for both sides, even more so during the Second Great War as the island featured an airfield and seaplane base. During the First Great War in 1915, the United States Navy and Marines would launch a successful assault on the British Colony, following the island's fall, the US Navy would use it as a base to impinge on British shipping between the UK and Argentina.
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A F-3A Katzenjammer fighter preparing to takeoff from the USS Sandwich Islands during the First Battle of Bermuda in August of 1941. During that Battle, the joint Anglo-Confederate forces would trick the local US Navy forces which comprised of the aircraft carriers USS Remembrance and Sandwich Islands, the battlecruiser USS Brandywine, 2 cruisers, and 6 destroyers by forcing them away from Bermuda to pursue a British forces which comprised of the aircraft carriers HMS Ark Royal and Glorious. This move would open the island for it's quick capture by the British forces, and for the next year and a half, would be under their control.

At the start of 1943, US Naval High Command would decide that the time has come to re-take Bermuda, this was in the wake of the Confederate defeat at Pittsburgh. The potential benefits if Bermuda was taken was tempting to the Union Commanders, this would mean an airstrip and a naval base in the Middle of the Atlantic, which could cut the Confederacy off from it's European Allies on the other side of the Atlantic but also open a door to a launch a further offensive into the Confederate held Caribbean Region. For this task, Admiral Bull Halsey was in the charge of the Operation (which was by late February was codenamed Forager), one of Halsey's subordinates during the Operation would be Admiral Raymond Spruance, who was a veteran of the Pacific Northwest Campaign with experience against both the Russian and Japanese Navies. The forces under Halsey's command had included the aircraft carriers USS Enterprise, Yorktown, Ticonderoga, Independence, and St. Lawrence (The carriers Ticonderoga, Independence, and St. Lawrence were brand new carriers in the inventory of the Atlantic Fleet). In addition, the new battleship USS Maine was to be part of the fleet in addition to the older battleships USS Michigan, Washington, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Dakota, 7 heavy cruisers, 11 light cruisers, 25 destroyers, and a large number of amphibious assault and support ships.
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An overhead photograph of the new aircraft carrier USS Ticonderoga prior to the Second Battle of Bermuda, circa March of 1943.
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Aboard the carriers Enterprise and Ticonderoga was a new fighter aircraft known as the Grumman F-4A Wildcat, which superior to the previous Katzenjammer in terms of armament and performance.

The middle of February of 1943, Bletchley Park would information about the planned Union attack on Bermuda. As a response to this, the Admiralty would put together a plan to counter to the US Navy's forces. This force which they dubbed as Force H, would be commanded by Admiral James Somerville, who too had significant experience under his belt, notably for commanding the Home Fleet in the Battle of the North Sea during the previous year, which saw the destruction of the German High Seas Fleet as a major fighting force. Somerville's forces would include the aircraft carriers HMS Illustrious, Courageous, Formidable, Victorious, and Ark Royal, the battleships HMS King Edward VIII, King George V, Albion, Dominion, Queen Elizabeth, Valiant, the Battlecruisers HMS Renown and Repulse, 5 heavy cruisers, 7 light cruisers, and 22 destroyers. Somerville's forces would be augmented by a squadron each of land based fighters and torpedo bombers as well as the light cruiser HMS Ajax and 4 destroyers at Bermuda. After being passed on the information from the British, Jake Featherston would authorize the deployment of the powerful forces of the Confederate Atlantic Fleet to Somerville's command. These units consisted of the battlecruisers CSS Robert E. Lee and Camp Hill, 4 heavy cruisers, 5 light cruisers, and 15 destroyers.
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The Battleship HMS King Edward VIII in Portsmouth, which during the Second Battle of Bermuda, would serve as Somerville's flagship.

On March 29th, 1943, the greenlight for Operation Forager would be given, in which Halsey's Second Fleet would depart from Boston, Massachusetts in the direction of Bermuda. One day later, Somerville's Force H would also depart from it's home base of Scapa Flow for Bermuda, thus setting the stage for the upcoming battle. Within two days, the Union Fleet would be within striking distance of Bermuda with it's aircraft, to which Halsey would order an air attack on the British forces on and around the island.
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An SBD Dauntless dropping it's payload during the March 31st Raid on Bermuda. A large force consisting of Dauntlesses, Katzenjammers, and Avengers would assault the British at the island, where they destroy many of the coastal defenses, ground equipment, grounded aircraft, sinking a destroyer and two minelayers, and shooting down two Sea Hurricane fighters in return for the loss of two SBDs and a Katzenjammer.

The next day, the Confederate Naval Forces under Vice Admiral Willis Lee had arrived at Bermuda, in which almost immediately, Lee would order his ships to scout for the enemy fleet as well as setting a small force consisting of the light cruiser CSS Houston and two destroyers to take position for a rendezvous with Force H. On April 2nd, the forward ships of Force H would meet up with these three Confederate warships just 74 miles from Bermuda. By April 4th, the Anglo-Confederate forces would organize their warships in battlegroups and would send these groups out to go hunt down any Union warships that might be in the vicinity of Bermuda. It would not take long before on April 5th, the first naval action of the battle would take place 163 miles north-west of Bermuda where a British battlegroup consisting of the cruisers HMS Dorsetshire, Achilles, Cleopatra, and 5 destroyers would run into a US Navy force consisting of the cruisers USS Minneapolis, Baltimore, Helena, and 6 destroyers. During the two and half hour engagement, the Union ships would sink the destroyer HMS Isis and damage the HMS Achilles and another destroyer while the USS Baltimore and three of their own destroyers sustained damaged themselves. On the same day just 194 miles to the east of that battle, the air groups from the carriers USS Enterprise, Yorktown, and St. Lawrence would attack a British battlegroup that consisted the aircraft carriers HMS Illustrious and Ark Royal, the capital ships HMS King George V and Repulse, 2 cruisers and 6 destroyers. During the engagement inspite of ferocious anti-aircraft fire and the Fulmar fighters, the Union bombers managed to cause severe damage to the Illustrious and the cruiser HMS Edinburgh and would also send the battlecruiser HMS Repulse to the bottom.
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A photo taken from the HMS Arethusa of the aircraft carrier Illustrious being bombed by by USN SBD dive bombers, that caused her immense damage, forcing her to retreat back to England, thus removing her from the battle.
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A still photo taken aboard the HMS King George V of the Repulse exploding following a torpedo hit from a TBF Avenger.

On April 6th, the British would launch a reprisal attack on the Union Fleet, where a flight of Blackburn Skua dive bombers and Swordfish torpedo boats backed up by Fulmars would attack Task Force 34 which had the aircraft carriers USS Enterprise and USS Independence. During this action, the British would manage to cause some damage to the Independence and the light cruiser USS Topeka as well as sinking the destroyer USS Hall for the loss of three Swordfish, two Skuas, and a Fulmar. For the next two days, there would be a lull in the fighting, where both sides took the chance to lick their wounds. On April 9th, a scout plane from the heavy cruiser USS Portland would alert Task Force 38 to the presence of a Anglo-Confederate forces consisting of the battleship HMS Valiant, the battlecruisers Renown and Robert E. Lee, the heavy cruiser CSS Virginia, 2 light cruisers, and 5 destroyers that was heading in it's direction. In response, aircraft would be launched from the USS Ticonderoga and the St. Lawrence piecemeal, and within half an hour, would meet with the enemy. In the resulting battle, the Union planes would sink the CSS Virginia and a single Confederate destroyer as well as damaging the cruiser CSS Havana and the destroyer HMS Nubian.

Later that evening, the submarine USS Darter would locate a British battlegroup which was patrolling the the north-eastern approaches to Bermuda which had consisted of some rather tempting targets. After firing a salvo of 6 torpedoes, 5 of them would make of their mark, one each on the destroyer HMS Onslaught and the cruiser HMS Sussex (in which the Onslaught would be sunk). The other three would strike the aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal, which list heavily to starboard. Later that night, the Ark Royal would capsize and had sunk, which would prove to be a blow to the British forces as they had lost another aircraft carrier. Around the same time that the Ark Royal slipped beneath the waves, another engagement was underway. A Union force consisting of the battleships Oregon and Nevada, the heavy cruiser Lansing, two light cruisers, and 5 destroyers would clash with a British force consisting of the battleship Valiant, the heavy cruisers Suffolk and Ulster, the light cruiser Penelope, and 3 destroyers. In that battle, the Union warships would catch the British by surprise, sinking the battleship Valiant, the cruisers Suffolk and Penelope, and 2 destroyers while only the Lansing and a single destroyer sunk and the light cruiser USS Philadelphia suffered heavy damage. The next morning, the British would get their revenge on the Union aircraft carriers, when a force of Bristol Beaufighters from Bermuda with some support of Fulmars and Skuas from the aircraft carrier Courageous would conduct and attack on Task Force 34, and during the action would destroy the USS Independence as well as damaging the Enterprise.
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An explosion from a torpedo hit on the USS Independence, which would go down just 15 minutes after this photo was taken, in the foreground is the light cruiser USS San Diego.

On the next day on April 11th, the most significant action of the Battle for Bermuda would take place, when the forward elements of Task Force 27 would run into a Anglo-Confederate force comprising of the battlecruiser CSS Camp Hill, the heavy cruisers HMS Ulster, Hampshire, and CSS Alabama, two light cruisers, and 7 destroyers just 90 miles west of Bermuda. Within 20 minutes, more Union warships, which comprised of the battleships USS Maine, Michigan, Oregon, Dakota, and Nevada, the 2 heavy cruisers, 3 light cruisers, and 5 destroyers. Around the same time, a Radius forces comprising of Somerville's flagship HMS King Edward VIII, the battleships HMS Albion, Dominion, and Queen Elizabeth, the heavy cruiser Dorsetshire, 2 light cruisers, and 4 destroyers would also show up on the scene. The engagement would last for three and a half hours, and it would end with a Union victory, for which the Radius would lose the battleships King Edward VIII and Albion, the heavy cruisers Ulster and Dorsetshire, the light cruisers Savannah, Richmond, Nigeria, and Cleopatra, and 6 destroyers. In return, the US battleships Michigan and Nevada would suffer heavy damage along with the loss of the cruisers USS Chicago and Scranton, and 4 destroyers.
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An aerial photograph taken from a TBF Avenger of the battleship HMS Albion detonating following a broadside from the USS Oregon.

For a couple of days after the April 11th action, a couple of actions would be fought, would see the the loss the HMS Courageous, two cruisers, and 4 destroyer for the British, the Union forces losing three more destroyers. On April 15th, the surviving British forces would withdraw from Bermuda and the Confederate warships shortly thereafter. By April 20th, the US Marines would hoist the Stars and Stripes over Bermuda after several days of fighting the British defenders of the island. The Union victory in Bermuda would tip the balance of naval power in the North Atlantic to the favor of the Central Powers. For the Royal Navy, it was a crippling blow that they would not recover from, indeed, Bermuda was the worst defeat in the Royal Navy's history. Half of the British aircraft carriers either sunk or badly damaged, many veteran officers, sailors, and aircrew lost, and one of it's best commanders, Admiral Sommerville, dead.​
Crossposting from the photos thread
 
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