TL-191 Map Thread
- Thread starter Nerdlinger
- Start date
Can Italy get Tunisia? After all it was what Germany offerend in case of italian neutrality, honestly it will be more probable some border change with A-H and Albania but the latter is already a Hasburg protectorate after the war (a big no no for italian interest, hell the entire aftermath of the war is basically italian geopolical nightmare become true...and frankly at least getting something out of it is the minimum)
Socialist. Sinclair tried to bring Utah back, Blackford tried giving jobs, Smith brought it back. And Hoobert Heever ignored it.
bguy
Donor
Agree about Ohio. It was the state the suffered the worst in the SGW, so it almost certainly went Democrat in '44.
I also think Ohio probably went Democrat in 1940, since a native son was heading up the Democrat presidential ticket.
Trotsky said:
Wouldn't Utah likely have its own political party? (Something akin to OTL's Irish Nationalists).
Nerdlinger said:
I disagree here. It says in Blood and Iron that the British are still cocks of the walk in Africa and India even after the FGW. They would have a hard time holding on to India if they lost the Suez Canal, and I can hardly see them being called the cocks of the walk in Africa if they've lost control of Egypt.
And why would the British transport food from Argentina to Britain by way of the Suez Canal anyway? That's just about the longest route imaginable. Plus even if the British control Egypt the Ottomans could still deny the use of the canal to them so long as the Ottomans control the Arabian Peninsula. (Afterall it doesn't do any good to control the canal if the Red Sea is full of mines and has Ottoman dive bombers overhead.)
Probably the UK get a basically white peace, after all Germany, unlike the USA cannot take physically what he wants.
Fair point, I suppose.
I was thinking that because so much was made of the US cutting off the corridor from South America to West Africa that it was the only route the British could use during the SGW. This implied to me that the British no longer had access to the Suez and that the Ottomans likely took Egypt in the FGW. But now I remember that the same issue over closing the Atlantic gap was raised in the FGW. So even if the British had control over the Suez, evidently the length of the route and the Red Sea gauntlet made it an impractical route for food in both wars. This means the British did not necessarily lose Egypt to the Ottomans after the FGW. They might lose it after the SGW, though that's a matter of conjecture rather than inference.
If you mean between a white peace between just Germany and Britain, I would say this is a reasonable assumption. Germany's overseas projection power was quite limited relative to the UK's. However, it is possible that German colonial troops could have seized at least some British colonial territory in Africa and/or New Guinea. It's also possible that the British could have sold colonies to the Germans either as part of the peace treaty or later in lieu of reparations.
In any case, I think it was established in the canon that Germany occupied Belgium after the war, so at the very least the Germans would have picked up the Congo, as indicated in Pieman's map.
The Germans certainly wouldn't have lost any colonies in the peace treaty, I agree. The British colonies you transferred to the Germans seem plausible, although Luke makes a good point above about a white peace between the UK and Germany.
I notice that you have Jamaica, the Caymans, Navassa Island, Turks and Caicos, and the British and French Lesser Antilles under US control. I don't recall anything being mentioned about those in the books. They also would have been more difficult to seize and hold than Bermuda and the Bahamas (with the possible exception of Turks and Caicos).
When did the Japanese first turn on the British and French? During the FGW? After? I know they took Indonesia from the Dutch at some point and were going after Malaysia and Singapore during the SGW. I don't know what happened to Hong Kong or Indochina.
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Germany was stated to have occupied Belgium and the Congo at different points in the series.
You're right, I remember there was mention of how poorly the Germans treated the Congolese along with talk of what the Turks did to the Armenians.
Poland was a German ally/puppet. Why would Germany take a piece of Poland after the war?
As for France, I imagine Germany'd want to continue hobbling it, but from the sounds of things, they had a restive mess on their hands after both the Franco-Prussian War and GW1. So they could think better of taking yet more territory.
As for France, I imagine Germany'd want to continue hobbling it, but from the sounds of things, they had a restive mess on their hands after both the Franco-Prussian War and GW1. So they could think better of taking yet more territory.
Poland didn't exist prior to the war. It was created after the war out of Russian territory in both TL-191 (albeit as a German puppet) and in OTL.
I believe the Germans occupied northeastern France after the war, though I don't think they annexed any of France proper.
Not only that, but also evidentally treated the Congolese even worse than Leopold's Free State did.
Wood said the Germans would "correct the omission [annexing the remainder of Lorraine] in the upcoming treaty."
I do not believe it was a White Peace with Britain, they did loose Ireland after all. Britain probably escaped with its military intact, no reparations, and most of its empire. However, if I'm worng my map is free to edit.
I knew they had the Bahamas and Bermuda, but I thought the other ilands were put under US authority in the books in the peace treaty, much like most of Canada was. I didn't think it a problem since Britain lost its bases in N. America, and the CSA had its navy limited in size.
Japan started to turn against them in the mid 20's I believe. If memory serves they bought Indonesia and Indochina in the late 20's or 30's, but before their second war with America. I also assumed they bought East Timor even though it was never mentioned.
I thought Roosevelt said something similar to Custer when Custer said they shouldn't give back Memphis or Nashville in Breakthroughs.