TL-191 Map Thread Redux
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MaxGerke01
Banned
This also makes you wonder what the most extreme German/Austro/Ottoman victory map would have looked like as well...
Probably there was some plan by CPs named after German minister of foreign affairs.
* I would like to thank S. Marlowski for his contribution to this map.
Map of North America based on Featherston's vision after SGW
Although Featherston claimed that he simply wanted lost Confederate territory from the USA, he constantly imagined different scenarios about how the rest of North America should look like. Secret talks with Canadian rebel groups revealed that Featherston would have allowed the formation of a Free Canadian State and some territory to be returned to Britain. Featherston also had plans to have a strong grip on Central America and South America, bringing to life an early, theoretical Confederate foreign policy called "the golden circle".
The map above was found sometime after the war and it contains several written notes made by Featherston that reveal how North America may have looked had the Confederacy won between 1941 and 1942. Historians have suggested that other maps may have been made that looked somewhat similar or radically different.
Map of North America based on Featherston's vision after SGW
Although Featherston claimed that he simply wanted lost Confederate territory from the USA, he constantly imagined different scenarios about how the rest of North America should look like. Secret talks with Canadian rebel groups revealed that Featherston would have allowed the formation of a Free Canadian State and some territory to be returned to Britain. Featherston also had plans to have a strong grip on Central America and South America, bringing to life an early, theoretical Confederate foreign policy called "the golden circle".
The map above was found sometime after the war and it contains several written notes made by Featherston that reveal how North America may have looked had the Confederacy won between 1941 and 1942. Historians have suggested that other maps may have been made that looked somewhat similar or radically different.
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MaxGerke01
Banned
The Confederates would likely have tried to press the governments in Central and South America to unleash the Destruction on their citizens of African descent either in their respective countries or by deporting them to the CSA-Brazil would have the largest and most intergrated number of people of African descent and those genocidal actions would likely occur there but the rest from Mexico to Chile had relatively small and separate African descent communities who could be dealt with in country or deported to the CSA death camps depending on numbers and proximity to the CSA...
That's one possibility.
I imagine that most of Featherston's post-SGW plans would be very grandiose and not well-thought out.
MaxGerke01
Banned
After completing the Destruction in the CSA and Haiti his bloodlust would compel him to try and eliminate all black people in the Western Hemisphere. He might even try to get Canada ,the British territories and even the USA to willingly give up their small black populations; The USA would be optional of course because his ultimate pipe dream would be to take over the whole continent and take care of American blacks then. Of course there are also ultra radical Freedomite works that call for the Destruction eventually to visit Africa and Europe and wherever any black people remain on Earth..
Do you think he could pull off a invasion of Brazil? I must say this Brazil is considerably stronger than otl since we avoided the 40 years of chaos (1889-1930).
MaxGerke01
Banned
I don't know if he would try and project the CSA military influence quite that far-at least not in the immediate aftermath of victory in the Second Great War. I was thinking more of him using a combination of diplomatic pressure and anti black bigotry to try and get Central and South American countries to willingly give up or kill their African descent people. Hopefully Brazil at least wouldn't do this and if he did try and force the issue hopefully the CSA would have a Vietnam type situation on its hands at the very least....
Brazil never would do that, especially during the empire.
Sadly, OTL Brazil passed a law in early 1930 limiting jewish immigration, and other in 1945 limiting african immigration, so depending of the government Brazil has, they could simple deny the immigrants arriving from other latim american countries escaping from persecution...
Highly unlikely. Featherston would likely want to make himself the undisputed ruler of North America. I doubt Brazil would even really cross his radar. That being said, he might push for Central and South American countries to "take care of their black populations" (either deporting them to the Confederacy and, from there, to the death camps or handling their own genocide of black people).
Brazil is unlikely to do so, though.
Africa in TL-191 after the FGW has so much story potential!
I remember doing a map of how Africa would look like after both Great Wars. I thought it was satisfactory until I realized that I assumed that the future independent nations would keep their national borders based on colonial boundaries, instead of ethnic, cultural, linguistic, racial and/or religious lines.
These two informative videos give alternate ways in which African countries could have looked like.
A Map of the Proposed territorial changes of Africa made between the Radius Powers of the so-called "New Africa Project." Not only that the French and British regained their lost colonies, they also had intended to divide up the German colonies. As shown here, the French had gained Cameroon, Togoland, and Dahomey as well as part of of Yemen from the Ottomans, the British had gained South West Africa, Tanganyika, and Northern Congo as well as regaining North Rhodesia and Nyasaland. It was also shown here that Ethiopia was either going to be a British Colony or just under their sphere of influence. Also shown here in the Middle East, Bahrain was planned to be a Russian colony and Persia to under Russian sphere of influence. The remainder of the Congo was to be made into a colony for the puppet nation of the Duchy of Belgium. The zones in black were regions were the plans for them by the Radius Powers in case of their victory were lost to history. The Katanga Region has been speculated by historians as being intended to being given to Britain. Liberia on the other hand is a more hazier subject, some historians suggested that either Britain or France was to be the intended ruler, while others had speculated of it going to Spain. A radical theory proposed an Italian Historian had suggested that it might have been awarded to Featherston's Confederacy as a reward for their alliance.
MaxGerke01
Banned
Just what all the rabid Freedomites would want a toehold in Africa ,a chance to put the descendants of American blacks who thought they had escaped slavery and racism in their place and an opportunity to start to reduce Africa's population in the future-a horrifying prospect....
I might have to remake this map, this time adding in the Russian conquests in the Pacific Northwest
Demographics of TL-191: North America in 1910
Sources:
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1910_United_States_Census#State_rankings
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chihuahua_(state)#Demography
3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora#Demographics
4) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico#Demographic_dynamics
5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Vital_statistics
6) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jamaica#Vital_statistics
7) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Bermuda
8) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Bahamas
9) https://books.google.com/books?id=99gQNRg8-fcC&pg=PA187&lpg=PA187&dq=haiti+population+in+1910&source=bl&ots=Roc2nmlK0i&sig=ACfU3U3I-x_vtHFisAHcK61qdV0B8XYVQg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwixiM3dsLLqAhUSZc0KHbepCvsQ6AEwEnoECA0QAQ#v=onepage&q=haiti population in 1910&f=false
10) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Cuba#Population_by_region_(2015)
Notes:
*I estimated the populations of Maine, Sequoyah, Bermuda, the Bahamas, Cuba, and Canada. Some of these numbers were from the date 1911, while others took into account speculative population growths from conquered lands. Sequoyah's population may be a bit too low, but I wanted to emphasize that unlike in real-life, the state was nearly homogenous with Native Americans. Washington, D.C. is counted as its own separate entity.
**I found a range for Belize's (British Honduras) population: From 1856 to 1931, the population was between 20,000 and over 50,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Honduras#Demographics [a better citiation is preferable]
***I couldn’t find a reliable source on the Russian Empire’s population before 1914. It’s too unpredictable to say what the population of Russian Alaska would be.
****I think I made a small mistake with Cuba's population. The population could have been larger with several 100,000 units of additional people.
Sources:
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1910_United_States_Census#State_rankings
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chihuahua_(state)#Demography
3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora#Demographics
4) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico#Demographic_dynamics
5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Vital_statistics
6) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jamaica#Vital_statistics
7) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Bermuda
8) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Bahamas
9) https://books.google.com/books?id=99gQNRg8-fcC&pg=PA187&lpg=PA187&dq=haiti+population+in+1910&source=bl&ots=Roc2nmlK0i&sig=ACfU3U3I-x_vtHFisAHcK61qdV0B8XYVQg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwixiM3dsLLqAhUSZc0KHbepCvsQ6AEwEnoECA0QAQ#v=onepage&q=haiti population in 1910&f=false
10) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Cuba#Population_by_region_(2015)
Notes:
*I estimated the populations of Maine, Sequoyah, Bermuda, the Bahamas, Cuba, and Canada. Some of these numbers were from the date 1911, while others took into account speculative population growths from conquered lands. Sequoyah's population may be a bit too low, but I wanted to emphasize that unlike in real-life, the state was nearly homogenous with Native Americans. Washington, D.C. is counted as its own separate entity.
**I found a range for Belize's (British Honduras) population: From 1856 to 1931, the population was between 20,000 and over 50,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Honduras#Demographics [a better citiation is preferable]
***I couldn’t find a reliable source on the Russian Empire’s population before 1914. It’s too unpredictable to say what the population of Russian Alaska would be.
****I think I made a small mistake with Cuba's population. The population could have been larger with several 100,000 units of additional people.
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This is very insightful. Gives some idea into the manpower situation with the Confederacy especially and gives some insight into how things might look in the Second Great War. Very good work here.
Any ideas for how the Pacific colonies look pre-1914? Some of the bigger differences would be the Philippines belonging to Japan, Hawaii to the British, and perhaps all of Samoa to the Germans.
Same question, but applied to the map pre-Second Great War in the Pacific. Cause then we have the Americans and greater gains from the Japanese.
Same question, but applied to the map pre-Second Great War in the Pacific. Cause then we have the Americans and greater gains from the Japanese.