TL-191 Map Thread Redux

I have a better possibility for a map!

Remember there was Before and After the Holocaust with a Jewish population mostly gone
Will people someone make a Population Reduction equivalent of that?
Here's my headcanon for the Population Reduction Map.

States where a significant minority (25% or greater) does not survive: Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Virginia
States where a significant minority (25% or greater) does survive: Arkansas, Chihuahua, Florida, North Carolina, Sonora, Texas
States where the majority survives: Cuba, Kentucky, Tennessee

Of course, I also headcanon that the majority of Confederate blacks who managed to escape to the Appalachians/Blue Ridge Mountains, the swamps of south Florida, or the deserts of west Texas, Chihuahua, and Sonora survived too.
 
Here's my headcanon for the Population Reduction Map.

States where a significant minority (25% or greater) does not survive: Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Virginia
States where a significant minority (25% or greater) does survive: Arkansas, Chihuahua, Florida, North Carolina, Sonora, Texas
States where the majority survives: Cuba, Kentucky, Tennessee

Of course, I also headcanon that the majority of Confederate blacks who managed to escape to the Appalachians/Blue Ridge Mountains, the swamps of south Florida, or the deserts of west Texas, Chihuahua, and Sonora survived too.
Appalachia being more isolated might account for more blacks surviving there as as it would for Chihuahua and Sonora as would their proximity to Mexico. However Cuba would likely be the only Confederate state where a sizable number of whites would help and actually fight for blacks.There would be exceptions elsewhere in the Confederacy but those exceptions would be very light on the ground.
Also a large number of those would do it out of a sense of family ownership of the blacks they sheltered rather than any sense of common humanity. Confederate states where blacks were light on the ground did not necessarily have a white population who had a more positive attitude towards blacks in any way.
On a related note it has always struck me as especially unjust that Texas is the one Confederate state allowed independence. The 2 largest Confederate murder factories were located in Texas and most if not all of the white population in Texas would have known that.Based on that alone Texas didnt deserve complete independence from the USA anymore than any Confederate state did except maybe Cuba. Make them puppet states but not independent or part of the USA again. They deserve no better.
 
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Appalachia being more isolated might account for more blacks surviving there as as it would for Chihuahua and Sonora as would their proximity to Mexico.
However Cuba would likely be the only Confederate state where a sizable number of whites would help and actually fight for blacks.
There would be exceptions elsewhere in the Confederacy but those exceptions would be very light on the ground.
Also a large number of those would do it out of a sense of family ownership of the blacks they sheltered rather than any sense of common humanity.
Confederate states where blacks were light on the ground did not necessarily have a white population who had a more positive attitude towards blacks in any way.
I know It could sound Pessimistic and Nihilistic, but I think Hispanic population of Sonora, Chihuahua and Cuba will probably We want to Participate with a Genocide of Southern Black.
Why?
well because they think they are superior to them, they are trash and helping the Freedom Party to get rid of the “black filth to help Our Dixieland”
They still be treated better than the Black and want to show they are Allegiance to the Confederacy and are still want to “Honorary Whites”

But yeah I see your point that White people from Cuba will want to Help out and
Fighting those Gray Guards to Saved Black Neighbor or “Black Property”

They don’t want the Freedom Government to take ”their property” away to some Isolation Campsite to do you what with them.

But hey it’s better to deal with Racist Families that you knew of Your Whole life and the End of the day will helped provide Housing and Food to you than
Taken into Camps with No care of your well being to Trust Strangers who you never see and heard before in Your Life that want to Murder in Most insouciant Death possible


On a related note it has always struck me as especially unjust that Texas is the one Confederate state allowed independence. The 2 largest Confederate murder factories were located in Texas and most if not all of the white population in Texas would have known that.Based on that alone Texas didnt deserve complete independence from the USA anymore than any Confederate state did except maybe Cuba. Make them puppet states but not independent or part of the USA again. They deserve no better.
I don’t know why America will allowed Texas to Secede and be Independent country after US being staunchly Anti-Secessionist with the Mormon and all over the South
.
They are as Guilty as the Rest of South maybe even worse because they are Allowed Two Biggest Death Factories in Whole American continent on their State border
And that secession things is probably a desperate move to not be Annexed to Union.

Play besides even the Black Holocaust, why Texas have a slap on the wrist to Secede While they are guilty to as the rest of the south, they attacked the union four time in a row and There still going to have the same government of the south before Jake Featherstone take in office.

So Realistic I expected that a Texas republic could probably be short live or not even begin to exist as a Union will not allow Another Succeeding State to Seceded
(Aka Marching through Georgia: Texas Addition)
 
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Appalachia being more isolated might account for more blacks surviving there as as it would for Chihuahua and Sonora as would their proximity to Mexico. However Cuba would likely be the only Confederate state where a sizable number of whites would help and actually fight for blacks.There would be exceptions elsewhere in the Confederacy but those exceptions would be very light on the ground.
Also a large number of those would do it out of a sense of family ownership of the blacks they sheltered rather than any sense of common humanity. Confederate states where blacks were light on the ground did not necessarily have a white population who had a more positive attitude towards blacks in any way.
On a related note it has always struck me as especially unjust that Texas is the one Confederate state allowed independence. The 2 largest Confederate murder factories were located in Texas and most if not all of the white population in Texas would have known that.Based on that alone Texas didnt deserve complete independence from the USA anymore than any Confederate state did except maybe Cuba. Make them puppet states but not independent or part of the USA again. They deserve no better.
I had a hard time deciding on whether to put Texas in the first or second group. I decided the second because Texas is the largest state in the Lower 48 based on area possibly indicating there are more places to hide from the Freedom Party. The six states in the first category are easy to explain on the other hand. Virginia is the head of the snake given that’s where Richmond is so Featherston’s government probably has the strongest reach there. And the other five are where the Red Rebellion was strongest so it makes sense the blacks living there would be targeted the heaviest. Plus, in Louisiana’s case there’s the whole Huey Long thing and “Featherston’s First Victim” so people of all races there were more vulnerable to begin with and that compounds into the Population Reduction.

The only random selection was where to put Chihuahua and Sonora since I don’t know much about them and I wanted to make sure the third category was the smallest. I could move them if you wish. Arkansas and North Carolina are two states where it kind of depends on which part of the state you are in. The closer to the Ozarks (north of Little Rock) and Appalachians you were respectively, the greater chance of surviving. Florida is strange because while it was one of the first seven states to secede before Fort Sumter like IOTL, it did have a somewhat better track record regarding the state of black enfranchisement OTL (and TL-191 is largely based on parallelism so take that as you will) based on the coverage of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, percent of blacks registered to vote, and the percent of its Congressional politicians supporting the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Act compared to much of the South. And as previously mentioned Cuba was one of the only places that actively resisted the Population Reduction on a large scale.

That leaves Kentucky and Tennessee. For Tennessee you have the entire Eastern third being anti-Confederate and anti-slavery during OTL Civil War and TTL’s War of Secession. The fact that 30,000 troops from Tennessee fought for the Union is pretty significant. By extension this would likely mean anti-Featherston (and probably anti-Population Reduction) as well. That would create a bunch of tension between the Eastern third of the State vs the Central and Western thirds to the point where there’s a bunch of infighting in the state and would distract from the Population Reduction to a noticeable degree. With Kentucky, it was essentially a neutral state that was ultimately conquered by the Confederacy ITTL so there is probably a large part of the population there that isn’t happy with being associated by the Confederates or Featherston. That, like Tennessee, could create a situation where the state is fighting its own civil war and is this too distracted from accomplishing the Population Reduction. In addition to them being in the Appalachian range, I’m also basing this on the fact that unlike the rest of the South, the majority of the black population in these two states could vote before OTL’s Voting Rights Act of 1965 so they weren’t affected by Section 5 and that a majority or at least a very large minority of its Congressmen supported its passage. And this could also help explain why, aside from geographic proximity, Kentucky and Tennessee are being fast-tracked into being admitted into the Union (along with Houston do to it being the location of Camp Determination).

You don’t have to agree with me but this is just my two cents on the matter.
 
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I know It could sound Pessimistic and Nihilistic, but I think Hispanic population of Sonora, Chihuahua and Cuba will probably We want to Participate with a Genocide of Southern Black.
Why?
well because they think they are superior to them, they are trash and helping the Freedom Party to get rid of the “black filth to help Our Dixieland”
They still be treated better than the Black and want to show they are Allegiance to the Confederacy and are still want to “Honorary Whites”

But yeah I see your point that White people from Cuba will want to Help out and
Fighting those Gray Guards to Saved Black Neighbor or “Black Property”

They don’t want the Freedom Government to take ”their property” away to some Isolation Campsite to do you what with them.

But hey it’s better to deal with Racist Families that you knew of Your Whole life and the End of the day will helped provide Housing and Food to you than
Taken into Camps with No care of your well being to Trust Strangers who you never see and heard before in Your Life that want to Murder in Most insouciant Death possible



I don’t know why America will allowed Texas to Secede and be Independent country after US being staunchly Anti-Secessionist with the Mormon and all over the South
.
They are as Guilty as the Rest of South maybe even worse because they are Allowed Two Biggest Death Factories in Whole American continent on their State border
And that secession things is probably a desperate move to not be Annexed to Union.

Play besides even the Black Holocaust, why Texas have a slap on the wrist to Secede While they are guilty to as the rest of the south, they attacked the union four time in a row and There still going to have the same government of the south before Jake Featherstone take in office.

So Realistic I expected that a Texas republic could probably be short live or not even begin to exist as a Union will not allow Another Succeeding State to Seceded
(Aka Marching through Georgia: Texas Addition)
I think Texas was meant to be a Poland analogue do to it being where the camps are and desire for its independence (compared to the other Confederate states at least). But it doesn’t let Texas off the hook either considering that’s where the two biggest death camps of the Population Reduction were located.
 
I think Texas was meant to be a Poland analogue do to it being where the camps are and desire for its independence (compared to the other Confederate states at least). But it doesn’t let Texas off the hook either considering that’s where the two biggest death camps of the Population Reduction were located.
I get Harry Turtledove with Fetish of Parallelism, but Texas being Poland?
Texas only have Independent Country for Ten year while Poland has Existed for Centuries as Independent nation.

Their no way be Enough support for Independent Texas's as the last time they were Independent it was 98 Years ago and it lasted Ten year Until they got Annexed to the U.S

Poland were Control by the Nazis and they collaborate with Nazis to Exterminate the Jewish people, but at least they are excuse of Forces to Collaborate or be Gas their self.

Poland survived after the War because they Occupy Country and they century long history to why they deserve to have their Country restore after the Nazis.

Texas has stayed with the Confederacy for 83 years and the Majoirty of Texans see them self as Confederates, not a Citizen of Long dead State from 98 Years ago.

Regardless if Texas while going to Reclaim Independent, the Northern troops and Commanders from the Top won't allow a Large State like Texas with it resources and Factory will helpful to the Union
 
I get Harry Turtledove with Fetish of Parallelism, but Texas being Poland?
Texas only have Independent Country for Ten year while Poland has Existed for Centuries as Independent nation.

Their no way be Enough support for Independent Texas's as the last time they were Independent it was 98 Years ago and it lasted Ten year Until they got Annexed to the U.S

Poland were Control by the Nazis and they collaborate with Nazis to Exterminate the Jewish people, but at least they are excuse of Forces to Collaborate or be Gas their self.

Poland survived after the War because they Occupy Country and they century long history to why they deserve to have their Country restore after the Nazis.

Texas has stayed with the Confederacy for 83 years and the Majoirty of Texans see them self as Confederates, not a Citizen of Long dead State from 98 Years ago.

Regardless if Texas while going to Reclaim Independent, the Northern troops and Commanders from the Top won't allow a Large State like Texas with it resources and Factory will helpful to the Union
In fairness I never said Texan independence was deserved, just that the Poland analogue was a possibility for why it happened, or maybe Turtledove figured the largest Confederate state by size and probably population would be hardest to hold down. I’m not really sure. Anyway, a before and after map would be interesting regardless.
 
Here’s a thought - has any map maker considered what a Timeline 191 idea of a ‘Northern Victory’ timeline map might look like? (I have this mental image of US speculative fiction being able to imagine a long Cold War between the US & the British Empire, but not the ‘Special Relationship’ as it has played out in our own history; also that the Great War might have seen the USA align with France & Russia against Germany & Great Britain).
U.S. expands overseas, even more so than in OTL.
 
In fairness I never said Texan independence was deserved, just that the Poland analogue was a possibility for why it happened
Yeah you weren Right about you never said that, but anyways when it wouldn't makes sense even with any Parallel with Texas's

Turtledove figured the largest Confederate state by size and probably population would be hardest to hold down. I’m not really sure. Anyway, a before and after map would be interesting regardless.
Yeah Harry might though would be interesting with the biggest state of the Confederacy being succeeded off with paying much attention to what that makes sense or not.

You're right about that before and after Map being an interesting as well.

Well IDK make it I know I'm not a Map Maker I don't know you are ,but someone could make that ,but I don't know Someone who could make it?
 
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