TL-191 Map Thread Redux

Any ideas for how the Pacific colonies look pre-1914? Some of the bigger differences would be the Philippines belonging to Japan, Hawaii to the British, and perhaps all of Samoa to the Germans.

Same question, but applied to the map pre-Second Great War in the Pacific. Cause then we have the Americans and greater gains from the Japanese.
Post #3 of this thread contains a map I made of during FGW, which is close enough for it to be similar to that of before 1914.

One for SGW I have not made yet, but I did make one for the year 1989.
 
This is a Confederate Whig CSA not a Freedomite CSA right ?
Yeah, it says that it's a post-First Great War.

Personally, for that map, I'd also include in southern Illinois (there were a lot of support for secession in Little Egypt, and there was even Illinoisans who fought for the CSA) for the CSA. For Canada, I'd put all of Maine and maybe all of Washington.
 
Yeah, it says that it's a post-First Great War.

Personally, for that map, I'd also include in southern Illinois (there were a lot of support for secession in Little Egypt, and there was even Illinoisans who fought for the CSA) for the CSA. For Canada, I'd put all of Maine and maybe all of Washington.
What about Maryland and even Delaware?
I can of course see why the USA would resist giving up either of these at all costs but in the case of Maryland youd have a high percentage of the population who had supported secession,fought for the CSA and very much considered themselves Southerners.
Maryland in the CSA means the USA loses Washington DC de jure instead of just de facto which would have been symbolically speaking a dagger through the heart of the old USA. How could reunification have been as desirable or possible when your old capital city is now part of a different country ?
 
What about Maryland and even Delaware?
I can of course see why the USA would resist giving up either of these at all costs but in the case of Maryland youd have a high percentage of the population who had supported secession,fought for the CSA and very much considered themselves Southerners.
Maryland in the CSA means the USA loses Washington DC de jure instead of just de facto which would have been symbolically speaking a dagger through the heart of the old USA. How could reunification have been as desirable or possible when your old capital city is now part of a different country ?
The Union would never hand over Delaware and Maryland, and looking at what the CSA gained in that map, I think they'd be overstretching themselves. There's only so much territory a country can annex before it becomes too much for them. Now, I could see small parts of Maryland being handed over to the CSA (likely Garrett and Allegany counties) but not the whole state. They'd be lucky to get West Virginia, Southern Illinois, and Arizona (former New Mexico). They'd likely annex areas which are relatively low in population and they'd have their hands full with just West Virginia (1.2 million in OTL 1910) and southern Missouri in terms of sheer demographic size. Missouri in OTL 1910 had 3.2 million.
 
Yeah, it says that it's a post-First Great War.

Personally, for that map, I'd also include in southern Illinois (there were a lot of support for secession in Little Egypt, and there was even Illinoisans who fought for the CSA) for the CSA. For Canada, I'd put all of Maine and maybe all of Washington.
The Union would never hand over Delaware and Maryland, and looking at what the CSA gained in that map, I think they'd be overstretching themselves. There's only so much territory a country can annex before it becomes too much for them. Now, I could see small parts of Maryland being handed over to the CSA (likely Garrett and Allegany counties) but not the whole state. They'd be lucky to get West Virginia, Southern Illinois, and Arizona (former New Mexico). They'd likely annex areas which are relatively low in population and they'd have their hands full with just West Virginia (1.2 million in OTL 1910) and southern Missouri in terms of sheer demographic size. Missouri in OTL 1910 had 3.2 million.
Yeah, there's a reason why I labeled the map as "obsolete".

I tend to view this "Third Southern Victory" map as a more accurate representation of a possible Freedomite Victory during SGW, instead of it being a "Confederate Establishment Victory" during FGW. In the books, all Featherston wanted was lands that the CSA lost in the First Great War and was not really interested in conquest. However, given that he is a pathological liar, he could have changed his mind and sought more land in order to stick it against the USA. My Dixieland map is a better contender for a Third Southern Victory.

The creation of Arizona as a C.S. territory after FGW was something I regret doing. I thought, at the time, that the Confederates would support a Mormon state and wanted to share a border with them. Although, I do like the idea of splitting Missouri into two states and the British taking a chunk out of Washington and upper Michigan. West Virginia is a 50/50 opportunity for the CSA, but they may not be able to control a state that originally wanted nothing to do with the Confederates.
 
Yeah, there's a reason why I labeled the map as "obsolete".

I tend to view this "Third Southern Victory" map as a more accurate representation of a possible Freedomite Victory during SGW, instead of it being a "Confederate Establishment Victory" during FGW. In the books, all Featherston wanted was lands that the CSA lost in the First Great War and was not really interested in conquest. However, given that he is a pathological liar, he could have changed his mind and sought more land in order to stick it against the USA. My Dixieland map is a better contender for a Third Southern Victory.

The creation of Arizona as a C.S. territory after FGW was something I regret doing. I thought, at the time, that the Confederates would support a Mormon state and wanted to share a border with them. Although, I do like the idea of splitting Missouri into two states and the British taking a chunk out of Washington and upper Michigan. West Virginia is a 50/50 opportunity for the CSA, but they may not be able to control a state that originally wanted nothing to do with the Confederates.
I actually think you were actually pretty close in terms of this map and what an initial Freedomite victory would look like. They'd be close to the same thing, I feel. Yes, Featherston is a pathological liar, but I feel like that map is a pretty good blueprint for the base territories the CSA would claim.

Arizona might be bisected with OTL southern Arizona and New Mexico (similar to the Confederate Arizona territory) going to the CSA and the rest remaining with the USA. It gives a bit more protection for Guaymas and secures Confederate positions in the Gulf of California and it was historical territory that the CSA had claimed during the initial War of Secession (and it shortens the link to supply Mormon rebels against the USA while still maintaining plausible deniability). Missouri being split works well. I do agree with West Virginia though - it's a 50/50 shot at all of it. At best, the CSA might take a few slivers rather than the whole thing to make it easier to handle. Sort of like this map (link).

The British would end up taking all of Maine (at least, my personal view is that they would), Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and probably all of Washington State in the Great War. In any Second Great War, I could see the British taking the rest of Michigan and Oregon.
 
A few questions about TL191 for some maps.
  1. Does Romania joins GW1 on the side of Entente?
  2. Does Greece joins GW1? if Italy doesn't then Greece wouldn't either
  3. About the Baltic States, were they neutral in GW2? because if they were then they were probably the same as OTL baltics (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), rather than the German-controlled Courland and Kingdom of Lithuania
  4. If Brazil joins the Central Powers in GW1, then wouldn't they have at least occupied British and French Guyana? maybe Turtledove doesn't mentions it but for the sake of the map I will put it anyway
 
Back in 2012 a thread was created about the Maps from Harry Turtledove's Southern Victory series aka TL-191. Since that thread has been dead for years and many of us has maps but have nowhere on this site to post them at, well then, I have decided to create a new thread for this purpose, so to start things off here, here are some maps of Europe in 1941 on the eve of war.


A Political Map

And an Alliance Map
Why id Bulgaria not with all of Dobruja?
 
Why id Bulgaria not with all of Dobruja?
Probably because in TL191 Romania remained neutral in GW1 (I think), hence why it also lacks Bessarabia even though in the event of a Central Powers victory it would be awarded Bessarabia as IOTL Treaty of Bucharest.
 
Demographics of TL-191: North America in 1940
Large_5_1940_TL_191 Census.jpg

*Light-blue is U.S. territory
**Not pictured, but included in the population total: Sandwich Islands (Hawaii)
***Greenland's population would be around 20,000. Notwithstanding the real-life American population of Alaska, there could have been around 70,000 people in the region in TL-191.

Sources are similar from my 1910 map. Here are some extras:
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Canadian_Census
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greenland
3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Dominican_Republic


Side-Note: In real-life, the pop. of Nazi Germany was close to 70 million, while in the Soviet Union, it was about 196 million.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union
 
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