You forget the rebellions in both Canada and Utah, which took American forces away from the war front.
TL-191 Fridge Logic thread:
- Thread starter Snake Featherston
- Start date
Tovarich
Banned
Ok, I'm gonna have to ask; Harry Turtledove was on The Simpsons?
I had no idea he was so well known outside of AH circles.
Or is this some other reference that I don't get?
I can't remember if this has been covered but its something that has been buzzing and bugging me in my head the past few days. Even in OTL the Civil War the Union has, what?, 10-15x the Industry and by most of my sources the CSA has around 20% of comparable manpower. So we're to believe in HFR about 25+ years later that they basically did nothing that whole time? I would expect that after the "War of Secession" all kinda of inquiries and reforms and such would be placed to avoid similar debacles but instead the US Army seems like its gripping the Idiot Ball for dear life while the CSA is granted near-genius levels of adaption. Anyways thats just something I wanted to say
I fear that this is one of those cases where the author has to tilt the scales just a little in his pursuit of a more interesting story (as opposed to the most probable outcome).
If you're looking for a Second Mexican War which can be described as a Close Run Thing then I recommend THE GREAT WAR RELOADED (found at the other end of the following link).
http://counter-factual.net/upload/showthread.php?t=17893
^Enjoy!^
If you're looking for a Second Mexican War which can be described as a Close Run Thing then I recommend THE GREAT WAR RELOADED (found at the other end of the following link).
http://counter-factual.net/upload/showthread.php?t=17893
^Enjoy!
^I fear that this is one of those cases where the author has to tilt the scales just a little in his pursuit of a more interesting story (as opposed to the most probable outcome).
If you're looking for a Second Mexican War which can be described as a Close Run Thing then I recommend THE GREAT WAR RELOADED (found at the other end of the following link).
http://counter-factual.net/upload/showthread.php?t=17893
^Enjoy!
I hope you know that this TL by Snake is on here at AH.com as well.
so is one that you previously mentioned: RamscoopRaiders TL.
Not sure that the CSA had adapted that much. After all they heavily relied on the British and French to assist them in the new war.I can't remember if this has been covered but its something that has been buzzing and bugging me in my head the past few days. Even in OTL the Civil War the Union has, what?, 10-15x the Industry and by most of my sources the CSA has around 20% of comparable manpower. So we're to believe in HFR about 25+ years later that they basically did nothing that whole time? I would expect that after the "War of Secession" all kinda of inquiries and reforms and such would be placed to avoid similar debacles but instead the US Army seems like its gripping the Idiot Ball for dear life while the CSA is granted near-genius levels of adaption. Anyways thats just something I wanted to say
Besides, why would the USA require an enquiry on the Civil War? They knew why they had lost: it was because the British and Fench intervened. In contrast their tactics, weapons and strategy were all fine. It took a second defeat to conclude that they needed a European ally as well.
I am inclined to agree that the Confederate success in the Second Mexican War was more due to Political superiority than material superiority; if nothing else the sheer audacity of the Manumission Agreement must have left the US gasping for breath - I suspect that the raw nature of the Republican Administration cannot have helped the War Effort either (given the shake-up it must have caused after twenty years of the Democrats).
Lord Kiryan, I fear that I was NOT aware of the presence of those threads in these forums; Thank You Kindly for pointing them out to me!
Lord Kiryan, I fear that I was NOT aware of the presence of those threads in these forums; Thank You Kindly for pointing them out to me!
I'm curious what the British naval strategy would be if America were allied to Germany, the building program would have been something to behold.
Even the land strategy would be a lot different knowing that Britain is going to have to spend a pile of money to make sure Canada doesn't fall in the opening battles.
Even the land strategy would be a lot different knowing that Britain is going to have to spend a pile of money to make sure Canada doesn't fall in the opening battles.
Quite frankly the price of keeping the RN up to the mark of holding the Germans AND the US Navy at bay is just another part of the terrible cost borne by the English-Speaking Nations of Timeline-191.
Honestly, thinking about this series makes me very glad to have THE TWO GEORGES and our own Timeline to counterbalance the appalling carnage and waste of what amounts to a Civil War between the English-Speaking Peoples spread far beyond the Mason-Dixon line.
Honestly, thinking about this series makes me very glad to have THE TWO GEORGES and our own Timeline to counterbalance the appalling carnage and waste of what amounts to a Civil War between the English-Speaking Peoples spread far beyond the Mason-Dixon line.
My guess is that General Grant fell victim to Political Enemies; my understanding is that Mr Lincoln was his most ardent partizan and I suspect that association alone would be more than enough to kill a promising career after the War of Secession.
Couple that with Ulysses Simpson Grant's proven ineptitude in civilian life and I can imagine that poor gentleman ending up very badly off indeed.
My guess is that General Grant fell victim to Political Enemies; my understanding is that Mr Lincoln was his most ardent partizan and I suspect that association alone would be more than enough to kill a promising career after the War of Secession.
Couple that with Ulysses Simpson Grant's proven ineptitude in civilian life and I can imagine that poor gentleman ending up very badly off indeed.
I doubt that Grant would become nothing as portrayed in the book. He would be one of the few generals to defeat the Confederacy and as a result, he would be a prominent general well into the Second Mexican War.
This is possible, but I'm still not entirely convinced that General Grant could keep his footing in the Washington Politics of an unsympathetic Administration; while by no means a complete washout I would suggest that his Presidency in Our Timeline is a pretty fair indication that Washington in Peacetime is not his natural environment.
Given that Blaine's Administration didn't get very much of a chance to shake up the Democrat-shaped War Department before the Second Mexican War broke out I remain unsurprised that poor General Grant continued to rusticate in obscurity (especially given that Volunteers played only a marginal role in that conflict); the fact that twenty years have passed since the War of Secession likely does not help any attempt to bring in this old War Horse from pasture.
Given that Blaine's Administration didn't get very much of a chance to shake up the Democrat-shaped War Department before the Second Mexican War broke out I remain unsurprised that poor General Grant continued to rusticate in obscurity (especially given that Volunteers played only a marginal role in that conflict); the fact that twenty years have passed since the War of Secession likely does not help any attempt to bring in this old War Horse from pasture.
And the early victories that Grant won would be canceled out by the defeat. Like Tiro, I don't think that he would be able to keep pace with an unsympathetic government in Washington, and would suffer more due to the shame of losing the war.
Despite the fact that he would still have done more to Win the War than most of the Union General Staff even in a Civil War in which the Union LOST; I tend to agree with the person of FILLING THE GAPS who suggested that General Grant would be the PERFECT scapegoat on whom to pin all the failings of a certain quarter of the War Effort (given that this seems to have been essentially what happened to the poor fellow towards the close of his Administration - in fact I believe that even during the Civil War there were efforts to stab him in the back by subordinates or neighbouring commanders which foundered primarily upon the rock of Mr Lincoln's support for him).
I'd guess that the Confederates would be reluctant to detonate such a bomb on their own territory; more to the point a US Army advancing into a war zone is going to be a heck of a lot more paranoid than a National Capitol a long way behind the Front Lines of a War that nation happens to be winning.
Put another way the Confederates have only one bomb, the United States has many armies … but they only have ONE Government; it would cause a heck of a lot more chaos in the United States at this point if they were to lose an Administration (and possibly even Both Houses of Congress) than it would if they were to loose even an Army Group of soldiers.
More to the point Armies MOVE and soldiers can scatter more swiftly than a city full of senators!
Honestly, if you can buy the CSA getting nuclear weapons when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union didn't in OTL, don't worry about it.
I know this was half a decade ago, but who does Flora Hamburger have a strong OTL resemblance to? All I can think of is Rosa Luxemburg, could someone help me out?
ZGradt
Banned
Flora was going to be the Rosa Luxembutg analogue, with Blackford and Debs as part of some Spartacus League analogue. The Soldier's Circle and the demobilized US units were going to be America's Freikorps, McSweeney was going to be the Hitler or Himmler analogue, and Morrell is the Rommel analogue. Custer, Abell, and Dowling would've represented the 'old' US military who joined whatever Fascist US analogue. Pound and Lavochkin would be examples of US soldiers committing war crimes similar to Wehrmacht troops.