TL-191: Filling the Gaps

It has just occurred to me that Timeline-191 would be an interesting place to explore how the Irish Republic would have handled Ulster had she been left with that troublesome Province - one can only wonder, the shoe now being on the other foot, how Michael Collins and other ex-Rebels would wear the role of Government Forces (Going by the Irish Civil War of our timeline, the picture is unlikely to be pretty - and that was only fought between two factions of Republicans; throw the Loyalist/Republican divide into the mix and things could very well get outstandingly combustible).
I honestly think some people overestimate how Troublesome a 20th Century All-Ireland Republic would be in the North. A large part of any animosity would be in regards to how Catholic the Republic would be, but the conservative policies of De Valera are in no way guaranteed to still come about; Collins in particular, while a personally devout man, would be unlikely to press the matter or try to "catholicise" the North, being in favour of a separation between church and state.

The big thing a lot of people seem to think is inevitable is some sort of reverse-Troubles, but the factors leading up to that OTL conflict are actually rather unlikely to come about on the other foot; the IRA of OTL was rather moribund with the failure of the Border Campaign until the late '60s, as the civil rights movement largely failed to reform Stormont. The level of discrimination and political disempowerment Catholics faced in that time in OTL might also happen to the protestants, but I find it unlikely due to Dublin's insistence on "all Irish being treated equally" or something to that extent. The Catholics in the North also won't feel as much of a need to "secure their future"; They are a province with a simply rowdy minority, rather than an outpost on a hostile island, like the Unionists of OTL thought (and think) of themselves.

The problems with comparing the situations of the Ulster Republicans and Ulster Unionists is compounded by comparing the attitudes of Dublin and London. London's attitudes towards the North have changed over time, but never have they considered it an integral territory as much as Scotland or Wales; in 1975 in fact, Harold Wilson was considering unilaterally withdrawing from Northern Ireland, leaving behind and independent state under the Crown, much to the dismay and horror of Dublin, who did not want that level of instability on their doorstep. Dublin on the other hand, from the beginning, will be invested in Belfast as much as the rest of Ireland; instead of a 50 year experiment with rather distant home rule, the north will be governed directly from Dublin as with the rest of Ireland.

Dublin will therefore be both harsher on active separatist movements than London was, while more lenient on Protestants than Stormont was, and more concerned with economic development than either. This combination makes a sectarian conflict like the Troubles far less likely under Irish rule

As for the first years of rule though, things could go either way, and are largely dependent on the nature of independence, northern integration/independence, and who leads the Republic; A conservative-led republic that occupies the North by force will naturally be far harsher than a reconciliation-minded man like Collins gaining unification through diplomacy, like in Kaiserreich.
 
stirlingdraka, thank you very kindly for your compliments! I do agree that Hexcron's posts are well worth reading and glad that my own do not detract from them.:)


I honestly think some people overestimate how Troublesome a 20th Century All-Ireland Republic would be in the North.

In some scenarios, yes; in Timeline-191, where the Irish Republic was not only proclaimed by an armed rebellion raised during a time of a death-struggle with rival Great Powers but sustained with the support of those enemies and carried to a successful conclusion precisely because the British Empire (Including thousands, probably even tens of thousands, of National Volunteers*) was kept too busy by the United States, Germany & others to give this version of the Easter Rising the close attention it received in our AD 1916, I think it's downright impossible to understate how abidingly contemptuous & deeply, deeply angry the Loyalists are going to be (Not just the Protestants either; while any number of the Catholic Volunteers in British service are likely to receive the new Republic as adequate compensation for being beaten on the Western Front, at least a few of them are going to regard this Republic as the creation of Traitors and a root cause of that defeat - rightly or wrongly, they need someone to blame, and the Irish Republic was made possible by the Germans whether or not the Republicans feel beholden to them**).

Also, I'd bet cash money that the Irish Republic, no matter how conciliatory it's approaches to the North, will have to suppress the Orange Order (which is going to be the beating heart of opposition to the Republic and could not be anything else, any more than Sinn Fein could suddenly start singing "God save the Queen" with a whole heart); I can easily imagine the flashpoint of the Ulster Rising being a walk taken by the Orange Order in defiance of legislation against such sectarian traditions that gets out of hand when the Republican soldiery & constabulary charged with putting a stop to it get fed up with the abuse being flung at them by marchers (with or without the assistance of agitators in the crowd).

Maybe the Republic can make it work with Ulster in the long term, but in the short-to-middle term there's going to be blood.


*Though one assumes that Great Britain would have been very careful to deploy these 'Redmond' Volunteers against Germany & the Ottoman Empire, rather than the United States of America (Even assuming they could deploy reinforcements on that scale across the Atlantic, which seems doubtful).

**It also bears pointing out that Ulster flat-out refused to be part of an Irish Free State created with the reluctant consent of the British and erected as a commonwealth within the British Empire, to the point of having King George V as head of state (whether the Dail wanted him or no); how do you think they'll react to being made part of a Rebel Republic?
 
Would the Anglo-American rivalry really be as intense as the Anglo-French rivalry of the 19th century?
Almost certainly, though I'm not quite sure those two points are quite the best for comparison; in any case, Britain has, by the interwar years, lost more to the United States after the Great War than to any other power. That's certainly indicative to me that reconciliation is quite impossible under present circumstances.
 
Hexcron, might I please ask where you got that portrait photograph for Charles W. La Follette? (He looks absolutely excellent - it amuses me to imagine that, while he needed to wear glasses, per Charles M. La Follette of our own timeline, he was reluctant to be photographed wearing them).
 
Hexcron, might I please ask where you got that portrait photograph for Charles W. La Follette? (He looks absolutely excellent - it amuses me to imagine that, while he needed to wear glasses, per Charles M. La Follette of our own timeline, he was reluctant to be photographed wearing them).
The picture is in fact a composite of several different photos. The original base for the hair and face was this British sculptor
download_75.png

I used faceapp to merge several of the La Follette relatives into it, resulting in this
LaFollette_source_4.png

I then transplanted this onto the body and suit of a British diplomat to get the final product
LaFollette_Picture_Small.png
 
This reminds me that I had some biographical details worked out for old Charles W. but never quite worked them up into an article - I’ll have to dig them out and see if inspiration strikes!

By the way, please may I ask permission to use your composite as reference for a portrait of La Follette that I’m planning to commission? (I really love that face, but have a few notions for tailoring his outfit and would like to see what sort of full-length figure he cuts).
 
This reminds me that I had some biographical details worked out for old Charles W. but never quite worked them up into an article - I’ll have to dig them out and see if inspiration strikes!

By the way, please may I ask permission to use your composite as reference for a portrait of La Follette that I’m planning to commission? (I really love that face, but have a few notions for tailoring his outfit and would like to see what sort of full-length figure he cuts).
I wouldn’t mind at all. All I’d ask in turn is for permission to use any such commissioned work in the Southern Victory mod, for whatever GFX purposes I might find for it.
 
There’s also this, which is his in-game portrait, if you’d find it useful to send to the person you’re commissioning as well.
0D64B525-7D1B-4A21-84C5-8F9F7C87D464.png
 
I'm sure there might be a use for a drawing like that as an icon asset or event picture.

Well I've contacted the artist - who reports that they're being kept busy by various projects, but will be happy to work with me when possible - so when there's more to know you'll be the first to know it.:)
 
I wonder which of Theodore Roosevelt’s sons would be most likely to put an ‘Unauthorised Squadron’ or an ‘Unauthorised Brigade’ together in order to balance the scales against the CSA in Central or South America (or against Japan in China) during the Interbellum Period?

If memory serves it was Kermit Roosevelt who volunteered to join the British Army, but Quentin Roosevelt who was the family flyboy.
 
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It just struck me that we've been sleeping on the idea of the younger Mr William Sadler as a potential Jake Featherston (casting call or reference for artists) and I'm ashamed it took me this long to realise it - just look at those cheekbones!
 
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