TL-191: Filling the Gaps

A question that I don't think hasn't been discussed before: When Japan turns on the Entente in 1943, does China automatically become and an ally of theirs and is therefore now officially a belligerent of GW2? As far as we're all aware, they were fighting their own separate war with Japan just like IOTL.
 
Last edited:
A question that I don't think hasn't been discussed before: When Japan turns on the Entente in 1943, does China automatically become and an ally of theirs and is therefore now officially a belligerent of GW2? As far as we're all aware, they were fighting their own separate war with Japan just like IOTL.

I've wondered this, too.

Perhaps they are betrayed by the Union government as a way to convince the Japanese to switch sides?

It could be a reference for the Allied Powers during WWII giving the Soviet Union control of all Eastern Europe.
 
Late American Imperial Politics (1972-1991)

Part 5 - The 1988 U.S. Presidential Election

Walter Mondale. The first Republican elected President in over a century. The man who would either bring the Union into the 21st century or lead it to ruin. Loved abroad, divisive like nothing else at home, hated by the Socialist and Democratic establishments. Much was said about a man who, in all actuality, had done little substantive in his first term. Successive victories in 1984 and 1986 had produced majorities in both houses of Congress, but the Democrats and Socialists aligned to block Mondale's "Commonwealth Amendment", one of the most controversial pieces of legislation in US history. It was therefore no surprise that the ammendment would become the centrepiece of the campaign.

To the President's left, the Browderists had been somewhat neutered by Halberg's defeat four years prior. That left all five of the Socialist Party's core leadership either dead (in the case of Jackson and Humphrey), politically neutered (Blackford and Halberg), or worse (the now-Republican McGovern). The lack of a clear frontrunner thus left the gates open for a surprising dark horse to emerge.
Eight years prior, Bernie Sanders had struck deep into the Democratic heartland, shocking the political establishment by winning election as a Socialist to the governorship of Vermont. Once the most solidly Democratic state in the country, Sanders had ridden a growing wave of Socialist and Republican support to the Governor's office, a wave which he, as the first to achieve high office by it, was credited for. His perception as both an outsider and a popular Governor won him the primaries, and as a gesture to more establishment circles he nominated Mayor of Chicago May Blackford, the daughter of the former President, as his running mate.

To the right, DNC Chairman Rumsfeld's grip over the party had slipped considerably since the Party's disastrous performance in 1984. Moderates within the party, led by Delaware Senator Joe Biden, successfully pulled the party out of the hands of Rumsfeld and the right. Biden was nominated, along with Colorado Senator Gary Hart as his running mate.

The General campaign was not a whole lot more eventful than four years prior. The seemingly endless quagmire in Venezuela saw some limited progress, helping Mondale, while the Commonwealth Amendment continued to stall in Congress. The south continued to simmer, as Mondale continued to falter in fighting General Lavochkin's influence in the military. The debates came and went, and Mondale maintained a steady lead. Above all else, the American people were just tired.

So on November 8, 1988, the American People went to the polls. Most voted for Mondale. Most would never have admitted it four years later.

Screenshot (393).png

1988.PNG
 
Late American Imperial Politics (1972-1991)

Part 5 - The 1988 U.S. Presidential Election

Walter Mondale. The first Republican elected President in over a century. The man who would either bring the Union into the 21st century or lead it to ruin. Loved abroad, divisive like nothing else at home, hated by the Socialist and Democratic establishments. Much was said about a man who, in all actuality, had done little substantive in his first term. Successive victories in 1984 and 1986 had produced majorities in both houses of Congress, but the Democrats and Socialists aligned to block Mondale's "Commonwealth Amendment", one of the most controversial pieces of legislation in US history. It was therefore no surprise that the ammendment would become the centrepiece of the campaign.

To the President's left, the Browderists had been somewhat neutered by Halberg's defeat four years prior. That left all five of the Socialist Party's core leadership either dead (in the case of Jackson and Humphrey), politically neutered (Blackford and Halberg), or worse (the now-Republican McGovern). The lack of a clear frontrunner thus left the gates open for a surprising dark horse to emerge.
Eight years prior, Bernie Sanders had struck deep into the Democratic heartland, shocking the political establishment by winning election as a Socialist to the governorship of Vermont. Once the most solidly Democratic state in the country, Sanders had ridden a growing wave of Socialist and Republican support to the Governor's office, a wave which he, as the first to achieve high office by it, was credited for. His perception as both an outsider and a popular Governor won him the primaries, and as a gesture to more establishment circles he nominated Mayor of Chicago May Blackford, the daughter of the former President, as his running mate.

To the right, DNC Chairman Rumsfeld's grip over the party had slipped considerably since the Party's disastrous performance in 1984. Moderates within the party, led by Delaware Senator Joe Biden, successfully pulled the party out of the hands of Rumsfeld and the right. Biden was nominated, along with Colorado Senator Gary Hart as his running mate.

The General campaign was not a whole lot more eventful than four years prior. The seemingly endless quagmire in Venezuela saw some limited progress, helping Mondale, while the Commonwealth Amendment continued to stall in Congress. The south continued to simmer, as Mondale continued to falter in fighting General Lavochkin's influence in the military. The debates came and went, and Mondale maintained a steady lead. Above all else, the American people were just tired.

So on November 8, 1988, the American People went to the polls. Most voted for Mondale. Most would never have admitted it four years later.

View attachment 617265
View attachment 617266
What’s the Commonwealth Amendment?
 
What’s the Commonwealth Amendment?
Essentially it would create a fourth level of government between the states and the federal government, specifically for Canada and the Former CSA. These commonwealths would have far greater powers than states and would effectively act as autonomous regions. Additionally, it would allow the Canadian states to rewrite their constitutions with a Westminster-style Parliamentary system, and the Canadian Commonwealth would have its own Prime Minister. The goal here is to grant the most rowdy territories a degree of self governance to take the air out of the FP-ANVA and to a lesser extent the Canadian National Party.
 
Essentially it would create a fourth level of government between the states and the federal government, specifically for Canada and the Former CSA. These commonwealths would have far greater powers than states and would effectively act as autonomous regions. Additionally, it would allow the Canadian states to rewrite their constitutions with a Westminster-style Parliamentary system, and the Canadian Commonwealth would have its own Prime Minister. The goal here is to grant the most rowdy territories a degree of self governance to take the air out of the FP-ANVA and to a lesser extent the Canadian National Party.
Yeah, no. Union forever!
 
Essentially it would create a fourth level of government between the states and the federal government, specifically for Canada and the Former CSA. These commonwealths would have far greater powers than states and would effectively act as autonomous regions. Additionally, it would allow the Canadian states to rewrite their constitutions with a Westminster-style Parliamentary system, and the Canadian Commonwealth would have its own Prime Minister. The goal here is to grant the most rowdy territories a degree of self governance to take the air out of the FP-ANVA and to a lesser extent the Canadian National Party.
I'm honestly impressed that the Union has been able to maintain Canada, the former CSA, and half much of the Caribbean for this long and not break up USSR or Yugoslavia-style. That said, I'm not sure most of the non-Cuban Caribbean would want to be part of the same country with the former CSA, given that the Caribbean region is majority-black and TTL-CSA has a bad history with African-Americans (Slavery, Red Rebellion, Population reduction, etc).
 
I'm honestly impressed that the Union has been able to maintain Canada, the former CSA, and half much of the Caribbean for this long and not break up USSR or Yugoslavia-style. That said, I'm not sure most of the non-Cuban Caribbean would want to be part of the same country with the former CSA, given that the Caribbean region is majority-black and TTL-CSA has a bad history with African-Americans (Slavery, Red Rebellion, Population reduction, etc).
Lets just say those issues are coming to roost right about now...
 
Late American Imperial Politics (1972-1991)

Part 6 - The Calamity

In 1988, the American People gave President Walter Mondale a mandate. A supermajority in Congress and in the States, a landslide Electoral College victory, with one simple task. To end the madness and violence and decline of the last decade. To that end, Mondale immediately set about finally pushing through his "Commonwealth Amendment". Congress finally passed the Amendment in May 1989, when it was then pushed to the states for ratification. Throughout this process the opposition had hardly been quiet however. Both the Socialists and the Democrats had denounced the Amendment at every step, and the FP-ANVA simply would not die down. Mondale worked hard to push for the Amendment's ratification, only taking a break to sign a new Arms Limitation treaty with Helmut Kohl's Germany. Finally, in June 1990, over a year after its passing, Oregon ratified the Amendment, putting it into force. Alec Pomeroy was sworn in as the first Prime Minister of the new Commonwealth of Canada, and Jim Hunt was inaugurated as the President of the Commonwealth of Dixie. For three days, everything went smothly.

Then Pierce made his response known.

Over 200 dead. 200 dead in four states. Atlanta engulfed in riots. Chile leaving the Montreal Pact over "continuing American instability" Gus Halberg making a speech to a crowd of a hundred thousand in Chicago. Approval for the President went from over 60% to below 20% in less than a week. It was an unmitigated catastrophe. The markets collapsing seemingly overnight. A Socialist Congressman from Wyoming introducing articles of Impeachment. Disaster after disaster began to hit Mondale's desk.

And just as things looked as if they couldn't get worse, Boris Lavochkin decided to take the Piercite problem into his own hands.

It was common knowledge that Pierce himself was somewhere in Georgia. Lavochkin therefore took a few divisions, marched into Atlanta, and declared the entire state to be under martial law in August 1990. Mondale was powerless to stop him. Needles to say, this did not go over well with the Georgians.
With the collapse of the state government, the FP-ANVA took direct control of parts of the countryside, lynching whatever "collaborators" they could find. In response, Lavochkin marched into the countryside to meet the Piercites in open battle. Thus, by October 1990, Georgia was in a state of open war.

As the situation deteriorated throughout the next few months, a plot was forged by members of the Military-Industrial Complex to restore order to the country. By March 1991, the group, headed by DNC chairman Donald Rumsfeld and Socialist Congressman Dick Cheney, had settled on a plan of action. Mondale and his Administration was to be arrested, and popular former President Joshua Blackford would be installed in his place to restore order to the country by any means necessary.

The first issue in the plan was Blackford himself, now a recluse on his family farm in Dakota. When the conspirators met with him in May, he flatly refused to involve himself. Thus the plotters were forced to look for an alternative candidate. In the meantime they built up support within the general staff and among the army units stationed throughout the country. By August it was determined that the conspirators were running out of time, and it was now or never. Rumsfeld himself was made into a figurehead, and the plotters struck.

On the 21st of August, 1991, Army units in Arlington attempted to march into Washington D.C. to depose President Mondale. They were halted by units loyal to General Colin Powell, who had prior knowledge of the coup and remained loyal to Mondale. In Philadelphia, Pro-Coup elements successfully seized the city, assembling a rump pro-Coup Congress that rapidly impeached Mondale and installed Rumsfeld as President. By the end of the day, much of the mid-Atlantic was in a standoff. Maryland, D.C., New Jersey, and Ohio had declared their loyalty to Mondale's government in Washington, while Pennsylvania and West Virginia had declared for Rumsfeld's Philadelphia government. Citing the lack of central authority in the US, Nicaragua, Colombia, and Guatemala left the Montreal Pact the next day, while military forces occupying parts of Venezuela began to rapidly withdraw.

By the end of the week, both Commonwealths had declared complete neutrality in the coup. Kentucky and Tennessee, in response, were seized by Pro-Lavochkin army units, and declared for Rumsfeld. The war in Georgia continued to ramp up, with atrocities committed by both sides. It soon became quite clear that the coup would be decided by how army units across the country responded. In Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan, they declared neutrality, and would remain so for the duration of the crisis. Governor Sanders as well had declared neutrality, leading to much of New England following suit. Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick declared for Mondale by September 10, as did Indiana. By the end of the month Iowa had gone in his camp, while Rumsfeld was recognised by Kansas, Sequoyah, and Missouri.

In October, the two sides entered into dialogue on the Potomac. Former President Blackford, once reluctant to involve himself, represented Rumsfeld, while Vice President George McGovern, who had once served under Blackford, represented Mondale. Though Blackford pleaded with his old friend to come to an agreement with Rumsfeld, McGovern refused to give an inch, viewing the coup as an attack on the very foundations of American Democracy. Nebraska, Washington, Montana, and Roosevelt (British Columbia) declared for Mondale that month, while Rumsfeld took Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, and New Mexico declared for Rumsfeld. Montana would later be subjected to a pro-Rumsfeld military coup.

In November, the Mondale government was getting desperate. By this point the Montreal Pact had all but collapsed, with only Haiti and Puerto Rico remaining loyal. Even steadfast Ireland had gone off on its own. The government's last hope hinged on California, hoping its economic might could turn the tide and force Rumsfeld to negotiate on their terms. Nevada had declared for the conspirators, while Oregon had stayed loyal. McGovern and Blackford remained in a standstill, while Canada and Dixie made clear preparations for independence. Thus, when Governor Carl Martin declared California neutral, and the units in the states followed, Mondale's cause was doomed. Much of Roosevelt was seized by Canada, while a pro-coup coup took over Ohio.

By December, it was clear Mondale's administration wouldn't survive. The President thus took the steps he felt were necessary to keep the peace as much as possible. Secretly making contact with Germany, Canada, and Dixie, Mondale agreed to recognise their independence, as well as that of Alaska and the Sandwich Islands, to be known as Hawaii after independence. And so as McGovern and Blackford met and failed to come to an agreement for a final time on the 20th, Mondale made his move.

Five days later, on December 25th, Mondale announced his resignation, and intention to allow pro-Coup army units to enter Washington. Mondale departed to Germany, from where he would never return. As Powell let the pro-coup division cross the Potomac, McGovern hastily had himself sworn in, announcing in a broadcast that Mondale had left the country, and calling for "all those who wish to defend democracy in America" to oppose the new regime.

Accounts differ as to the final fate of the 40th and shortest serving President of the United States. The Coup plotters announced he had committed suicide, an account disputed by Joshua Blackford, who claimed he died fighting. Others have theorised he was captured and executed, while certain...fringe elements insist he survived the whole affair. Regardless, just a day after his death, Donald Rumsfeld stood in front of the White House and announced the end of the "great national calamity". Immediately afterwards, he announced that he, the Kohl Government in Germany, and the Commonwealths of Canada and Dixie had agreed to the independence of Canada, Dixie, Alaska, and Hawaii.

Upon this announcement, a reporter in the crowd pulled out a rifle, and shot President Rumsfeld in the face.

Less than an hour later, Richard Bruce Cheney was inaugurated as the 42nd President of the United States.
 
I know I've already asked this but in the books, blacks weren't allowed to serve combat roles in the US Military until near the end of GW2. Were other minorities allowed to serve combat roles or were they delegated to non-combat roles like their black counterparts?
 
I know I've already asked this but in the books, blacks weren't allowed to serve combat roles in the US Military until near the end of GW2. Were other minorities allowed to serve combat roles or were they delegated to non-combat roles like their black counterparts?
Most likely they were. I believe I remember Martin working with a Hispanic veteran of GWI in California.
 
Revisiting this, I realized that Potter's Raiders kinda fit the bill already as an analogue for the Brandenbergers, considering there's a foreign aspect to both.
Thanks a million! I do indeed, I want to get through the rest of the Armed-FPG Divisions.

After that I'll probably make a post on the Confederate 4th Barrel Division (Patton's favorite spearhead) the Tom Colleton's Regiment (ill make a new for it later) as it has the distinction of being in the harshest fighting, got closest to the River in Pittsburgh and was essentially the last Regiment standing.

Also a Virginia volunteer Mountain Brigade and Potter's Raiders
 
Last edited:
Here's something that bugs me when people bring it up;

Various times (including on the Turtledove Wiki), I've seen people bring up King Louis XIX as an inconsistency in Turtledove's lore, since IOTL there was briefly a King Louis XIX during the July Revolution. The problem with that argument is that Orleanists do not recognise the reign of Louis XIX, meaning it is not an inconsistency (at least in actuality, since I wouldn't put anything past Turtledove.), but instead essentially proof that the monarchy that AF restores is Orleanist, not Legitimist like some people have suggested. I keep seeing this brought up time and time again and it always annoys me.
 
Here's something that bugs me when people bring it up;

Various times (including on the Turtledove Wiki), I've seen people bring up King Louis XIX as an inconsistency in Turtledove's lore, since IOTL there was briefly a King Louis XIX during the July Revolution. The problem with that argument is that Orleanists do not recognise the reign of Louis XIX, meaning it is not an inconsistency (at least in actuality, since I wouldn't put anything past Turtledove.), but instead essentially proof that the monarchy that AF restores is Orleanist, not Legitimist like some people have suggested. I keep seeing this brought up time and time again and it always annoys me.

Yeah, I decided that the French king has to be from the House of Orleáns, in order to fit into Dr. Turtledove’s pigeon-holed decision.

I actually wrote a historical post based on it, but it uses different names (the real names of the Orleanist claimants).
 
Say @Marlowski, do you have that map mentioned here? Do you also have a map of a likely concentration camp system across the CSA and occupied territories?
A few other posters and I agree that Trujillo was an eager sycophantic ally to Featherston and was just as racist, if not more so, against Blacks.

In real life, he killed thousands of Haitians living in the Dominican Republic.

S. Marloskwi made a map that features one or two concentration or death camps in Cuba and Haiti.
 
Back when Craigo first made this thread, he made the son of Philippe, Count of Paris, Prince Charles of Orleans who died as baby live by a roll of the die to become TTL's Charles XI. Whether Dr. Turtledove intended this or not as a hidden explanation, it's a great find that Craigo found to fill in this gap. For my head cannon, that's the explanation I choose to accept for Charles XI's existence. It wouldn't be Charles Maurras of the Accion Francaise as some have speculated, but I see him as having the role of Prime Minister of France during GW2.
Yeah, I decided that the French king has to be from the House of Orleáns, in order to fit into Dr. Turtledove’s pigeon-holed decision.

I actually wrote a historical post based on it, but it uses different names (the real names of the Orleanist claimants).
 
Back when Craigo first made this thread, he made the son of Philippe, Count of Paris, Prince Charles of Orleans who died as baby live by a roll of the die to become TTL's Charles XI. Whether Dr. Turtledove intended this or not as a hidden explanation, it's a great find that Craigo found to fill in this gap. For my head cannon, that's the explanation I choose to accept for Charles XI's existence. It wouldn't be Charles Maurras of the Accion Francaise as some have speculated, but I see him as having the role of Prime Minister of France during GW2.
Maurras would never even think of crowning himself king. Even odds of him becoming PM, since he wasn't hugely interested in Administrative work iirc.

Frankly there's no reason for AF not to be Orleanist even disregarding Louis XIX. They were Orleanists iotl, and there's no reason to think that would change.
 
Even if Maurras isn't PM ITTL, he could still very wellbe a party leader and ideologue as the one of the co-founders and longtime party publisher. In my opinon the government of the Orleanist Restoration would be decentralized as they advocated for but under a totalitarian dictatorship to a certain extent, much like Nazi Germany and the Gauleiters/Reich Commisioners IOTL with power being delegated to loyal followers in various regions but adhering to a national policy/goal set by leaders at the top.
Maurras would never even think of crowning himself king. Even odds of him becoming PM, since he wasn't hugely interested in Administrative work iirc.

Frankly there's no reason for AF not to be Orleanist even disregarding Louis XIX. They were Orleanists iotl, and there's no reason to think that would change.
 
Top