TL-191: Filling the Gaps

OK. Have you considered that maybe Dewey and co. are harsher on labor because of America's different history, one with far more radicalism than OTL?

The way you describe it, it sounds like you're totally convinced that America will return to a Democratic-Republican two-party system.
 
Black-Jewish Relations, Part 1

On July 14, 1944, the guns fell silent. North America was finally at peace. The Confederate States, led by the dictatorial and genocidal Jake Featherston, was no more. But out of the ashes of the ruined South, the burned out husks of cities and towns, came the horror of what Featherston and Freedom wrought - death camps. The millions upon millions of slaughtered Confederate Negroes. Whole families, whole communities were wiped out. The bodies of the dead - men, women, children, lay stark on the ground as American forces led Southern town after Southern town to see what had been done in their name. To the survivors of the Population Reduction, how could they bear the unbearable? How could they compare slow passage of time to the barbaric slaughter of the innocent, cut off before their time?

The surviving remnant, under the dual protection of American guns and occupation, struggled to survive. They had known only a life of persecution, hatred, and intolerance. Brought to the New World in chains, and made slaves. And when freed, even then they were still in bondage. And then this… That hellish man in Richmond who had so convincingly told the Confederate people they were responsible for the loss in the Great War. They were herded to camps, they were gassed and burned and slaughtered. Out of almost 11 million Black Confederates enumerated in 1940, only 2.4 million survived. The shattered remnants welcomed their American liberators as a tired, broken, and solemn people.

The names of their persecutors were etched into history. Men who were damned to the lowest pits of hell for their dictatorial, genocidal regime. For the unimaginable horrors they brought to Confederate Blacks.

Jake Featherston. Ferdinand Koenig. Jefferson Pinkard. Mercer Scott. Vern Green. Saul Goldman.

When news of the death camps - like Dependable, Determination, and Humble - were spread to every corner of the U.S. and former CSA, the reaction was one of pure, unadulterated horror. W.E.B. Du Bois, a well-known and widely respected African-American civil rights activist, is elected to the House of Representatives in 1944. There is a story that Oscar de Priest, who was visiting Du Bois in Boston, upon hearing the news of the extent of the Destruction, just broke down in tears and sobbed in each other's arms. Du Bois swore that he would do everything he could for the surviving Negroes of North America, and de Priest threw his weight behind the man. Du Bois won the election in handily, and would serve as a Socialist Representative until his resignation in 1949.

The African-American minority, which for the most part centered in Boston, rallied behind Representative Du Bois and his shout heard 'round the nation of "never again!". It was this outpouring of pure grief that spurred Northern action.

Representative Flora Blackford (known for years as the Conscience of Congress) and Representative Du Bois worked to cosponsor the Civil Rights Act of 1945, intended to protect North America's few remaining Negroes. The ceremony of it being signed into law was attended by Representatives Du Bois and Blackford, former Rep. Oscar de Priest, Cassius Madison, William Dawson, Henry Winston, Fred Robinson, and David Linden [1], the first and the latter six became known as the official unofficial representatives of the Negro people in North America.

Among the signing of the Civil Rights Act were the few surviving members of the Red Rebellion - Fred Robinson of the People's Republic of the Piedmont, and William Dawson and Henry Winston of the Black Belt Socialist Republic.

And it was the combined efforts of both Representative Blackford and Du Bois that the 23rd Amendment was adopted in 1945 - providing for equal rights under the law for all American citizens, regardless of state, race, ethnicity, or religion.

Representative Du Bois would resign his seat in 1949, saying only that his people needed him. Arriving in Port-au-Prince, the former Representative would become the leading figure of the Black community there, and was even elected president of the reformed Republic of Haiti in the first election in 1951. His two terms (1951-59) saw the overhaul and reconstruction of Haiti as a new, viable, and proudly Black nation. The large amount of U.S. aid to the devastated nation is seen as incalculably necessary to restore the nation. Over time, most of the Southern Destruction survivors will make the journey to Haiti, and Haitian citizenship remains open to all African-Americans; while Liberia also received a fair-sized portion of Destruction survivors (and, between the Second Mexican War and Great War, hundreds of African-Americans).

Liberia, another American-descended Black republic, entered into a free-trade agreement with Haiti in June 1951, formalized close ties, and continually worked for the betterment of North America's few surviving Blacks. Liberia instated in 1957 a policy called right of return, allowing any African-American (Northern or Southern) or Haitian citizen who so wishes to receive Liberian citizenship, can receive it the second their foot touches Liberian soil.

Haiti also worked closely with the Republic of Quebec, to preserve the French language there. French will become one the two official languages of the new Haitian republic, though nearly all French and Creole speakers of Haiti were killed in the Destruction. Haiti was so largely depopulated by the Destruction, and the surviving Haitians held a deep-seated hatred of the Dominicans who so willingly worked with the Freedom Party (and, in the midst of the war, turned over their own Black population to be killed in the Confederacy's death camps).

Kevin West [2], the son of Destruction survivors, is widely praised as an American playwright, author, and civil rights activist. Despite lingering tensions between Blacks and Jews, the result of Goldman's broadcasts and black antisemitism, West has been at the forefront of pushing reconciliation between them. His plays have long included Jewish characters, and he has even expressed admiration of Jews on many occasions. His play, Homecoming, explored Black-Jewish relations in the lens of suffering mutual persecution around the world. He saw little difference between the horrors Blacks suffered in the camps to the pogroms Jews endured at the hands of the Black Hundreds.

His multiple Tony Award winning play, Jesus Walks, addressed the matters of faith and lack thereof in the African-American community after the Second Great War and in the wake of the revelation of the Destruction. In the aftermath of the Destruction, religion became something on the wayside. Many became agnostic, or just renounced religion altogether, saying that "God is dead" for the lack of divine intervention on behalf of the Confederate Negroes. For West, he wanted to explore why people renounced it. Received to universal acclaim, Jesus Walks was seen as voice of a generation - with well-crafted scenes, powerful imagery, and heartbreaking lines. The main character, who is largely seen as an expy of West himself, sees the figure of Jesus, turns away to face the audience and says, as the last line of the play, "I want to talk to God, but I'm afraid because we haven't spoke in so long…"

[1] OTL Ralph Abernathy. b. March 11, 1926 in Linden, AL
[2] OTL Kanye West. b. June 8, 1977 in Atlanta, GA
 
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bguy

Donor
OK. Have you considered that maybe Dewey and co. are harsher on labor because of America's different history, one with far more radicalism than OTL?

No, because:

1) That goes against the general spirit of the thread that pretty much assumes historical characters have similar personalities and will act similarly to how they did in OTL. (The TL-191 novels had very strong butterfly nets wrapped around them and this thread has largely honored that tradition);

2) There is no mention of large scale labor unrest in the US during the Second Great War so it seems doubtful Dewey had any major problems with labor during his TL-191 Governorship;

3) There is no particular reason for the TL-191 Democrats to be harsh on labor. Labor is a large voting block, and it's a voting block the Democrats can persuade to vote for them. (As witnessed by our viewpoint union character Chester Martin voting Democrat in both 1932 and 1940). Nor has TL-191 labor been particularly radical since at least the start of the Sinclair Administration. (The advent of moderate Socialist presidents seems to have largely tampered down labor radicalism in the TL-191 US.) So why would the Democrats deliberately set out to antagonize such an important voting block in the critical battleground states that they are perfectly capable of winning?

The way you describe it, it sounds like you're totally convinced that America will return to a Democratic-Republican two-party system.

No, I think the Socialists will recover from the stigma of the Second Great War soon enough, and I have a hard time seeing the Republicans ever being one of the top two parties again. (If they start to make any serious headway, either the Democrats or the Socialists will just start co-opting their more popular ideas.) I'm just pointing out that in the immediate aftermath of the war, the Socialists are going to have a lot of problems in the Mid-West (especially with the Democrats running a moderate candidate who will be able to win over labor voters.)
 
Black Jewish Relations, Part 2: Saul Goldman
Saul Goldman, an independent radio station operator, was the man who changed destiny. Many spec-fic authors have wondered what would have happened had Goldman refused this rabble-rousing man from broadcasting his message of hate.

Saul was born in May 1, 1896, in Białystok, Poland to Meyer and Fanny Goldman (née Lipstein). The pogroms of 1905, in the wake of the Russo-Japanese War, encouraged them to flee. They ended up, of all places, in Charleston, South Carolina - a major center of the Confederate Jewish population. While he didn't fight in the war, Saul would do his part as a citizen of South Carolina and the Confederacy, raising money and materiel for the war effort.

By the 1920s, Goldman's radio station was booming. His programs were largely entertainment, to distract the Confederates from the economic woes and occupation of parts of the CSA proper. Many in Richmond loved the programs, and the distraction, and Goldman had become something of a local hero. It was a chance meeting between the radioman and a Freedom Party leader named Jake Featherston that sealed their destinies forever. Inspired by the stories of Judah P. Benjamin, the well-known Confederate ambassador to the United States, and former Secretary of State, Goldman wanted to become a second Benjamin - invaluable to the Confederacy.

Goldman allowed Featherston and his Freedom Party to use both his facilities for speechwriting and to broadcast his message. In thanks, Featherston appointed the man as chief of party propaganda. Saul, who saw that the Freedom Party had no specific hatred of Jews, was attracted to it - because it allowed Jews to be unmolested by the Confederate government (unlike the Russian and French in the lead up to and during the Second Great War).

In the early years of the Freedom Party's rule in the Confederacy, Goldman (as the newly minted Chief of Propaganda) and Willy Knight were one of the chief and principal supporters of the Confederate film industry. In 1937, the Confederacy's Picture City launched an ambitious project on the pirate Blackbeard. Released in June 1937, Blackbeard: Lord of the Seas was considered to be one of the best films in history, and ensured Goldman's domination of Confederate media. The close work between Goldman and Confederate film director D.W. Griffith, who would produce propaganda films for the Party and government, ensured not just Freedom's total control of the media, but inflated Goldman's ego with how much power he had.

Privately, Goldman held his reservations about Featherston's policy towards the Confederacy's Negroes, and even wrote about it in private journals. The journals were lost during the occupation of the South, and remained so until June 1974.

After the end of the CSA on July 14, 1944, Goldman was taken into custody by U.S. Army soldiers alongside the remaining echelons of the Confederate Government. Charged with war crimes, and crimes against humanity, the trial of the former Confederate government is the largest legal proceeding in United States history. While most of the former government is handed death sentences for crimes against humanity, there was one notable exception. Donald Partridge, due to his limited role in actual administration since Featherston became a dictator, was found not guilty. He was released and put under house arrest for a period not exceeding twenty years. His memoirs, titled The Devil's Deputy, were published in July of 1964 on the twentieth anniversary of the end of the Second Great War. It was an instant best-seller, reading the top of the New York Times Best Seller List and stayed there for eighteen consecutive weeks.

Saul Goldman, however, was found guilty of war crimes, and crimes against humanity, and hung December 15, 1945, two days after Ferdinand Koenig, Cyril Northcote, and Vern Green. While not very religious, Goldman is reported to have prayed to God for forgiveness before the hangman had pulled the lever. His body was cremated by the U.S. Army and his ashes scattered over the Atlantic Ocean, to prevent his body from becoming a sort of shrine to Freedomites.

Discovered in June 1974, in a storage facility in Birmingham, his journals were published as The Goldman Diaries, and showed a much more nuanced view of the Confederate Chief of Propaganda. While not rehabilitating his image (Goldman was still, and rightfully, seen as the man who spread the message of hate, racial intolerance, and Freedom across the Confederate States), it did allow for many to see that Goldman was, for the most part, motivated by a large desire to protect his own people from being targeted. Still seen as the voice of the Devil, who whispered sweet nothings to the Southern people and sent the millions of Confederate Negroes to the death camps, Goldman was now seen in a deal with Satan himself.

His private views and reservations on the Destruction, now in print, were contrasted with news of the Russian atrocities against the Jews there. By April 1944, Goldman privately realized what he was doing - he was no better than the Russian Black Hundreds who butchered Jews living in the Empire. But, still bound at the hip of the Devil, he did nothing but continue broadcasts of Reduction, Featherston, and Freedom.

Goldman is largely seen, while still someone who made a deal with the Devil, a stain on the ex-Confederate Jewish community. Jews who shared his last name across Occupied Canada, United States, and former CSA changed it out of fear of being attacked, or worse, accused of somehow being related to the man, and the synagogue that Goldman had nominally belonged to issued a firm statement of disgust. Goldman's own rabbi, Samuel Silver [3] of Beth Israel Synagogue, issued a herem (also known as a censure) against the man. To nearly all of Southern Jews, he was no longer part of their community.

Seen now as a complex figure among the complexities of the Second Great War, Goldman was, in the end, kept right there alongside the chief butchers of the Population Reduction. Still in the company of Featherston, Pinkard, and Koenig.

[3] Fictional character
 
No, I think the Socialists will recover from the stigma of the Second Great War soon enough, and I have a hard time seeing the Republicans ever being one of the top two parties again. (If they start to make any serious headway, either the Democrats or the Socialists will just start co-opting their more popular ideas.) I'm just pointing out that in the immediate aftermath of the war, the Socialists are going to have a lot of problems in the Mid-West (especially with the Democrats running a moderate candidate who will be able to win over labor voters.)
Alright, but what you think the map would be, would push the Socialists to third place.

ocBf1.png


This is the current set up I have.

Thomas Dewey (D-NY)/Harry S. Truman (D-MO): 253 EV
Charles W. La Follette (S-WI)/Jim Curley (S-MA): 83 EV
Harold Stassen (R-MN)/Edward Anderson (R-NE): 44 EV

Hand Illinois and Michigan over to the Dems, you push the Socialists down to 36 EV.

If the Republicans won second place, this would definitely have been brought up in the books.

If you are going to have a Blue-Green Midwest, and yet Socialists stay second, what changes would you suggest?

This is 1936 and 1940 below for comparison.

lbxBP.png
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Now, maybe we could keep Colorado? That pushes them up to 42. Any other state that could go Socialist in 1944?
 
Black Jewish Relations, Part 3: Southron Jews

While Southern Jewry was largely a loyal minority, one that did not attract that much attention from the C.S government in Richmond, the Leo Frank lynching in 1915 galvanized the community to unify. Until 1938, the main leader of Southern Jewry was well-respected jurist Louis Brandeis, who would frequently exchange barbs with the members of the Confederate government, and state governments. While Jews were seen as "technically" white, an air of antisemitism was pervasive among Southern Whites. While Jews were successful in finance, and served in state and the Confederate legislatures, as mayors and judges other executives, they were still seen as others. Secretary of State Judah P. Benjamin helped soften the image of Southern Jews, and often contributed to their integration into Southern society, but few of the upper class or Whig elite saw them as truly Southern.

In an ironic twist, despite Confederate Jews serving in the CS Army, Jews were seen as socialists-in-waiting. The Red Rebellion in 1915, the Business Crash that devastated poor whites, and the rise of US Socialist leaders like Flora Blackford (née Hamburger). Blamed as responsible for crash, targeted as being others and foreign, small pogrom-esque events breaking out in the Confederacy weren't out of place. Those ended when Featherston came to power, though, with the idea that "since the Jews didn't stab me in the back, they're okay."

In the warped Freedom Party racial hierarchy, Jews were seen near the bottom - higher than Hispanics and poor whites, but still far below the Anglo-Saxon Confederates, descended from the original colonists. The fact that there were so few Jews in the Confederacy, compared to the United States, helped their cause - there weren't enough of them to make a fuss about.

In 1937, the Jewish-Confederate community stood at 220,500. Many served in the Confederate armed forces, and some even had been stationed in the death camps as guards. Featherston himself would award several Jewish-Confederates with Southern Crosses of Honor, Citation Stars, and Distinguished Service Medals. It was the fact that Jews fought for the South during the Great War that started to shift Southern white perceptions. While many still held distrust of Jews, they were now seen as loyal citizens of the Confederate States.

Boris Koslowski, a wealthy Jewish businessman in Richmond, was one of the people who gave vocal support for the Reduction. He saw the introduction of Mexican labor as something beneficial to the Confederacy, and would employ only White or Hispanic Confederate citizens. When the CSA fell in 1944, Koslowski was arrested and was executed for helping send nearly 200 Negroes to their deaths.

Elena Kleinmann, a Jewish Confederate shopkeeper in Humble, Texas, was one a supporter of the Freedom Party and the Population Reduction. She made and sold pies to the guards at Camp Humble, and, as she would often bring them to the Camp, she would often taunt the Negro prisoners there. Her son, Ezra, had been killed in 1915 by Red Negroes, and his vindictive mother held a racist hatred for them ever since. When the camps were liberated, Kleinmann was found dead in her home, a pistol left behind with someone else's fingerprints. US and Texan authorities ruled it a suicide.

The American superbombing of Newport News and Charleston, the push to the sea by U.S. forces, and the shooting of Jake Featherston by Cassius Madison, ended the Confederate States of America. And in the wake, Jews were now decapitated of leadership after the superbombing of Charleston.

Leon Weiss, a former architect who worked closely with Huey Long, became one of the few pre-dissolution Southern Jews to be thrust into leadership roles. Corrupt, racist, and not very pleasant, he was one of the few Jews in the former Confederacy who held any form of leadership positions. And his association with Huey Long, who had resisted Featherston and Freedomites for so long, endeared him to US occupational authorities.

Gertrude Weil, a well-known advocate of civil rights in the former Confederate States, took the reigns of the Jewish leadership. Many Jews, horrified with the result of the Destruction, followed her lead and cooperated with the American forces who came to occupy the United States. Rabbi Ira Sanders, of Little Rock, would also seek to encourage Jewish ex-Confederate collaboration with the American authorities. A leading proponent of integration in the former CSA, Sanders was seen as instrumental in encouraging reconciliation with the Black community.

While most Southern Whites viewed the Destruction as successful for the most part, the horror of anti-Black rhetoric Goldman encouraged shook the Confederate Jewish community to its core. White ex-Confederates viewed Jews as traitors to the Confederacy, while many surviving Negroes saw Jews as capable of producing another Saul Goldman. Southern Jews were subject to antisemitic attacks, even murders, by both Southern whites and blacks, and American forces had largely ignored it (focusing instead on helping survivors of the Destruction). Even Northern Jews were not safe, and some were targeted (shops attacked, synagogues firebombed, Jews were murdered, etc), as African-Americans held them as "evil landlords" who continually and repeatedly oppressed them.

It took until civil rights activist George Davis [4], who famously converted to Judaism in a lavish ceremony in in Las Vegas in 1961, to start a process of reconciliation between Blacks and Jews.

Despite the best efforts of the Southern Jewish leadership, many of their community abandoned the South. Most fled for New York, seen as the New Promised Land, or Ottoman Palestine. The Jewish population there was swollen with refugees from Russia, Poland, and the other German client states in the east. The Ottomans, while not particularly friendly to Jews, saw them as a useful population to counter the Arabs in the wake of the failed British-inspired Revolt in the Great War.

[4] OTL Sammy Davis
 

bguy

Donor
Now, maybe we could keep Colorado? That pushes them up to 42. Any other state that could go Socialist in 1944?

Colorado going Socialist in 1944 seems reasonable. Otherwise:

Since the novel didn't explicitly mention the Republicans winning either Nebraska (6 EVs) or Iowa (10 EVs), I could easily see the Socialists winning both of those states. We know George Norris is a Socialist Senator in Nebraska, so the Socialists seem to have some strength in that state at least, and the mid-western La Follette should play well in the farm belt (much better than the East Coast urban Dewey anyway). I also don't think either Iowa or Nebraska was hit too hard by the war, so they shouldn't be too resentful of the Socialists. That would get the Socialists up to 58 EVs (and thus safely ahead of the Republicans.)

I would also probably give the Socialists Wyoming (3 EVs). If it voted Socialist in 1916, the Remembrance ideology obviously never caught on there, and since it wasn't too badly affected by the war, there isn't much reason for it to desert La Follette in 1944.

California (25 EVs) going Socialist is also possible. Admittedly it voted Democrat in 1940, so it going for La Follette is perhaps unlikely, but it wasn't really subject to any significant attack during the war, and its economy probably boomed during the war years, so La Follette is probably reasonably popular there.

And it is mentioned in the novel that the election in Pennsylvania (35 EVs) was neck and neck. From the subsequent despair in the Socialist office, I think Pennsylvania probably did ultimately go Democrat that night, but its not impossible that the Socialists could have pulled it out there. (In which case their later despair that night would just be due to them taking a pasting in the critical Mid-West states.)

So even if the Socialists lost Michigan and Illinois, they could still credibly win anywhere from 58 to 121 EVs.
 
Decided to be a little conservative.

Thomas Dewey (D-NY)/Harry S. Truman (D-MO): 249 EV
Charles W. La Follette (S-WI)/Jim Curley (S-MA): 77 EV
Harold Stassen (R-MN)/Edward Anderson (R-NE): 44 EV


TL191-1944.png
 
Mister Ben Ari, I just wanted to pop in and congratulate you upon producing some very excellent articles - I shall definitely borrow from your excellent ideas (One must admit that I amused myself by imagining that certain Timeline 191 scholars still debate when and where exactly Saul Goldman was born, probably due to him casting a veil over his Polish roots to emphasise his Confederate Citizenship).

I look forward to seeing what you produce next!
 
Does this sound at least half-plausible?




I suspect that States like Illinois or Ohio or Michigan aren't going to be voting Socialist again in a hurry (given that they were on the front-line when the Army of Kentucky went for a tour through the North; it seems hard to imagine that Chicago or Detroit didn't take a pasting from Confederate Bombers because the Socialists failed to remember the age-old parable of the Scorpion and the Frog … ).

I do agree that your version of events is the most likely, but I suspect that the Socialists will take a long time to 'bounce back' to where they were before the Great Reunification War - and if the Republicans are VERY canny then they can take advantage of the fact that as a Third Party they can stand for principles and policies that challenge the Status Quo in a way that neither the Socialists or the Democrats can afford to (since it was they themselves who CREATED the Status Quo).

it does indeed. i can work with this. I can even use it as a way to launch Collins. it could be that Collins' division or brigade or whatever, was the brigade that held the line, allowing Pearse, Clarke, MacDonagh, MacDermott, and Conolly to make the escape, while a few like DeValera aren't quite so lucky.

Oh, sure the Chicagans and Detrois will be upset for a bit, but as soon as the factories get back up and running, and they start getting paid shite wages because Dewey lets the factory owners treat the workers however they want, they'll get over it MAD fast believe me. And since the Republicans aren't going to speak out for them and lack adequately strong leadership, they aren't really going to turn to them. The socialists may not necessarily get the White House again until Humphrey, but in their traditional states, they'll get them back.
 
Mister Ben Ari, I just wanted to pop in and congratulate you upon producing some very excellent articles - I shall definitely borrow from your excellent ideas (One must admit that I amused myself by imagining that certain Timeline 191 scholars still debate when and where exactly Saul Goldman was born, probably due to him casting a veil over his Polish roots to emphasise his Confederate Citizenship).

I look forward to seeing what you produce next!

Well thank you! :) I wanted to make sure that it didn't feel out of place in the thread. I always saw Goldman as a man who, in the end, made a deal with the Devil. He still continued in his role, and damned himself and remains a horrible man, but the reasons why he became involved with the Freedom Party was out of an intense desire to protect Southern Jews (he remembered with perfect clarity the Leo Frank lynching).

I have the U.S. and Ottoman Jewish sections left to finish, and I may add in British Jewry as well. And these will definitely tie closely to the previous sections, particularly with the American Jewish section and the giant shoes that Flora Blackford left behind.

How did you like the Kevin West blurb?
 
Well thank you! :) I wanted to make sure that it didn't feel out of place in the thread. I always saw Goldman as a man who, in the end, made a deal with the Devil. He still continued in his role, and damned himself and remains a horrible man, but the reasons why he became involved with the Freedom Party was out of an intense desire to protect Southern Jews (he remembered with perfect clarity the Leo Frank lynching).

I have the U.S. and Ottoman Jewish sections left to finish, and I may add in British Jewry as well. And these will definitely tie closely to the previous sections, particularly with the American Jewish section and the giant shoes that Flora Blackford left behind.

How did you like the Kevin West blurb?

I loved the Kevin West bit. Lol. Although, why was a Confederate black man is named Kevin, I have no idea. Lol

But I do like the idea of Black-Americans in TTL becoming less religiously-based in this timeline and that mention I thought was really good. It would've been easy to say that they become even more religious and I'm glad you refrained from doing that. An interesting thought on that, since American black posterity are less inclined to have religious bias, does that mean that the black community will be more quick to embrace the idea of and support the gay rights movement, if it manifests in TTL? Having suffered oppression and without religious convention, I don't see any reason why not.
 
I loved the Kevin West bit. Lol. Although, why was a Confederate black man is named Kevin, I have no idea. Lol

But I do like the idea of Black-Americans in TTL becoming less religiously-based in this timeline and that mention I thought was really good. It would've been easy to say that they become even more religious and I'm glad you refrained from doing that. An interesting thought on that, since American black posterity are less inclined to have religious bias, does that mean that the black community will be more quick to embrace the idea of and support the gay rights movement, if it manifests in TTL? Having suffered oppression and without religious convention, I don't see any reason why not.

I almost gave him a different name, like Cassius (in honor of Cassius Madison) or Marcus, but I ended up with Kevin. Plus, as an Irish name (with the name meaning "kind birth; honest birth") it fit for the idea I had of him. West in TL 191 is an honest figure, he tries to uncover the sincerity of things, to be honest with his audiences.

I'm glad you liked the direction I went in, in terms of religion. I had always imagined Black Americans in TL 191 would be vastly less religious. The dual tragedies of slavery and genocide wouldn't have endeared them all that much to a divine figure. And with West, he wanted to see why African Americans weren't religious, to explain it to people, and used the play Jesus Walks as a way to do that. For them, it was the centuries of persecution, hatred, lynchings, slavery, oppression, leading to the gas chambers - for most it was too much. Many of them turned their backs on God and renounced faith.

And I would definitely agree. In my eyes, African-Americans in TL 191 would be more supportive of gay rights than in OTL. The persecution that Freedom wrought made them realize (around the 1950s and 60s, when the generation of Southerners who had grown up under American occupation came of age), that the discrimination of anyone (whether for their gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc) was inexcusable.
 
A Bit Excessive, though?

I only have one small complaint, Mr. Joshua.

Don't you think the number of dead is a little too high? I mean, out of 11 million black people in the country total, only 2.4 million are alive afterwards?

That means that the Confederate government killed like a fourth/fifths of the black population - while dedicating resources to war! Also, the black population was a fifth of the Confederate population, so this would mean that they killed like nearly a sixth or a seventh of their population (sorry, my mental math isn't the greatest, and i was never too keen at fractions in school, so I'm ballparking it here. Either way, it is an extremely gross amount). I find it difficult to believe that even if they dedicated every man in whatever their Gustapo is (the Freedom Party Guard?) to the task that they would be able to round up and seize every single one of them AND still have capacity to wage war for two more years!

I am not as aggressive to the idea of a Fascist Confederacy trying to kill their black population as some people are, as all evidence from our own timeline suggests that the Confederacy was evil enough that an attempt would've been likely if the opportunity presented itself. But I do think that given their logistical limitations, this number is a BIT excessive.
 
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Please do an article on European Jews though during the Second Great War period! After all, European anti-semiticism was resurrected by Action Francaise in OTL, so it would be interesting to see how it plays out in a France where they rule. Plus, we have Moseley in Britain, and Churchill from what I understand wasn't the friendliest of gentiles. Not too mention even the Tsar Nicholas III trying to legitimize his regime in Russia.

Obviously nothing as grandiose as the Holocaust, but I'm confident that stae-sponsored pogroms were frequent.
 
I say we kill Hubert Humphrey, so there is no doubt this is not the prequel to After the End. I enjoyed that timeline but Craigo was pretty adamant about keeping this timeline its own thing. If you want to write the back story to After The End, post there. The thread is still up.
 
I say we kill Hubert Humphrey, so there is no doubt this is not the prequel to After the End. I enjoyed that timeline but Craigo was pretty adamant about keeping this timeline its own thing. If you want to write the back story to After The End, post there. The thread is still up.

From the way things look most of the time, anything past the mid 1950s is really up in the air. I can believe a Dewey and Truman presidency from 1945-1961. Easily, but after that it is harder to actually tell where things go.

And personally, i do not see Morrell becoming President or Vice-President. I can see the motives for the latter, but it is questionable he would accept, given he is modeled after not only Rommell, but also Sherman.
 
We could have it so that Mosely and Churchill don't get executed as it is in AFE. I mean, that move doesn't really make much sense anyway, outside of the Nurembourg parallelism. But without Germany actually occupying the country, there's no way they could actually realize that concession, superbomb or no superbomb.
 
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