TL-191: Filling the Gaps

1898-1904 The Gist Administration finally killed the Confederate appetite for electing generals, and in 1897, for the first time, the CSA elected a man who had not served in the War of Secession. With the economy still in recession and the Liberals and Radicals nipping at the Whigs' heels, Robert Taylor of Tennesseebecame the first CS President to fail to win a majority of the popular vote. (If the Radicals and Liberals had combined, they would have taken Kentucky, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Cuba, Louisiana, Sequoyah, Sonora, and Chihuahua, and a majority of the electoral college). His mostly quiet term in office saw the official formation of the Quadruple Entente, and the Radical Liberal Party.

1904-1910 With the populist tidal wave receding, Confederate Speaker of the House Champ Clark, of Kentucky, easily triumphed over Radical Liberal nominee Thomas Watson of Georgia, who won only Cuba, Sonora, Chihuahua, and his home state of Georgia - a far cry from the near-triumph of 1897. Clark, as befitting a Kentuckian who had grown up in close proximity to Yankees, pushed for better ties along with like-minded US President Nelson Aldrich. The so-called "Golden Age" of friendly American relations persisted under Clark's successor, until 1913.

1910-1916 Few men in public life have experienced as rapid a ride to prominence as Woodrow Wilson, who, as president of the University of Virginia, was elected Governor of Virginia in 1908, only a year before he was elected President of the United States, over retread Tom Watson. In 1912 he succeeded, along with Secretary of the Treasury Carter Glass, another Virginian, in forming a Confederate central bank modeled on the US's Federal Reserve, formed in Mahan's time. He also supported legislation limiting the workday to 10 hours, and pursued better ties with the United States. He even planned a state visit North, the first for either a US or CS President since the War of Secession, but it had unfortunately been scheduled for late 1913 - after the inauguration of Theodore Roosevelt, a man Wilson had despised ever since they had got into an argument following a guest lecture Wilson had given at Columbia in 1899. The visit was unceremoniously canceled.

Good Chrystalization of the forces at work in the CSA after the SMW. Just a heads up for the next Article in the CSA election series, the Radical Liberals do not form until after the 1897 election. They are two seperate parties the Radicals and the Liberals, plus it seems that if they had formed before 1897 they would have won.

I was thinking about the issue of the Trans-continental Railroad. Technically the CSA congress cannot spend money on internal improvements

Art. I Sec. 8(3) Congress has the power "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes; but neither this, nor any other clause contained in the Constitution, shall ever be construed to delegate the power to Congress to appropriate money for any internal improvement intended to facilitate commerce; except for the purpose of furnishing lights, beacons, and buoys, and other aids to navigation upon the coasts, and the improvement of harbors and the removing of obstructions in river navigation; in all which cases such duties shall be laid on the navigation facilitated thereby as may be necessary to pay the costs and expenses thereof."

The CSA government paying for the trans-continental railroad is out of the question. As we know from Victorious Opposition the Supreme Court would find any Confederate funding on internal improvements unconstitutional. Here is a possible way to "fund" the railroad constitutional. When the government recieved Sonora and Chihuahua they were territories. We know from Craigo's manumission article they are given statehood to pass the amendment. As a part of their receiving statehood the Confed government could forced them to turn over unoccupied land to the CSA government like the Fed government did to the territories. I know it boggles us easterner's minds but the Federal Government ownes like 84% of Nevada. The CSA could have something similar going on in the new Mexican States

Because CS Congress cannot appropriate funding for the transcontinental Railroad. They can sell the recently required land the railroad would run on at a discount price. We also know railroads already run as far west as El Paso, so all they need to do is run the railroad west from there. The CSA government can sell to CSA railroad companies land at discount rates to pay for the railroad. I bet this also made railroad companies big holders of any mineral rights they find along the way. The Great War the American Front makes it seem like the CSA transcontinental Railroad took along time and nearly bankrupted the CSA. This probably meant their securities sector and if I remember Craigo and wrote about a CSA recession in the 1890's during the Gist Administration. Just food for thought.
 

bguy

Donor
I was thinking about the issue of the Trans-continental Railroad. Technically the CSA congress cannot spend money on internal improvements

Art. I Sec. 8(3) Congress has the power "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes; but neither this, nor any other clause contained in the Constitution, shall ever be construed to delegate the power to Congress to appropriate money for any internal improvement intended to facilitate commerce; except for the purpose of furnishing lights, beacons, and buoys, and other aids to navigation upon the coasts, and the improvement of harbors and the removing of obstructions in river navigation; in all which cases such duties shall be laid on the navigation facilitated thereby as may be necessary to pay the costs and expenses thereof."

The key language in the bolded section is the words "intended to facilitate commerce." As long as the railroad is intended for a constitutionally permissible purpose (in this case national defense) rather than to facilitate commerce it should pass constitutional muster. After all the Confederate Supreme Court is very unlikely to tell Stonewall Jackson he doesn't know what he's talking about when he says something is needed for national defense. (And besides Longstreet and Jackson both probably made supporting an expansive view of national defense power a litmus test for their appointments to the Confederate Supreme Court.)

Featherston's situation was different because what he was doing (building dams) didn't have a plausible military purpose, so there was no way to reasonably argue it was for national defense. (Also, Featherston was deliberately trying to provoke a fight with the Supreme Court, so he probably didn't let his lawyers try and find any constitutional loopholes. He wanted the court to strike his law down.)
 
I agree with your legal analysis. I assumed that the Confederate Supreme Court would be more conservative then the US Court at the time. My thinking was the Whig party is only six-seven years old, so I wasn't sure they would have the majority on the court. Having said that i did not factor in previous CSA President's having an interest in an expansive view of the "no internal improvements clause," which they obviously would.

If anyone wanted to add some CS Supreme Court Drama into the mix, here is another option. More than likely they would follow bguy's line of reasoning.
 
talking of which, has anyone done a list of possible chief justices? associate justices? when the CS supreme court was established?
that's something I haven't seen discussed much
 
C.S. supreme court

In Victorious Opposition, Koenig stated that the supreme court had been established after the war, I think it was 1863 or 1864.
 
Supreme Court Justices

United States

Roger Taney: 1836-1864. Wrote the famous Dred Scott decision, helping to spark the War of Secession, and affirmed that the government could not hold citizens without trial.

Edward Bates: 1864-1869. Previously Lincoln's Attorney General, his Court denied that secession was legal, but recognized the right to revolution. Utah separatists would later cite his opinion.

Jeremiah Black: 1869-1883. The Black Court established that states could establish personal jurisdiction over anyone within their territory, and confirmed that polygamy could be outlawed.

James Garfield: 1883-1889. The last Republican Chief Justice, he wrote the opinion overturning the first income tax in US history, prompting a Constitutional amendment.

Henry Billings Brown: 1889-1895. Brown was assassinated by a socialist named Alexander Berkman, in retaliation for a decision denying the right to form a union. This may be the origin of the phrase "bomb-throwing radical."

Joseph McKenna: 1895-1915. The father of TR's Vice-President, he affirmed the use of discriminatory "black codes" in the US, and supported rationing laws.

Oliver Wendell Holmes: 1915-1935. Early in his tenure, the Holmes Court was quite conservative. Many of his later decisions show a leftward shift; for instance, he refused to strike down the Sinclair social reforms, using a new interpretation of the Commerce Clause.

Cicero Pittman: 1935-1947. Pittman, one of the first Democratic Justices appointed in years, was out of step with most of his Court. He wrote an opinion affirming the existence of a federal common law.

Omar Bradley: 1947- Bradley, despite being a Democratic appointee, has taken an expansive view of personal liberty. He has consistently upheld the Civil Rights Act of 1945 under the Privileges and Immunities Clause, and has steadily expanded Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights.

Confederate States

James Mason: 1863-1871. Campbell was the first Confederate Chief Justice, and refused to deny American citizens the right to sue Confederates. He also upheld several foreign slave-trading convictions, which was banned under the Confederate Constitution.

John Campbell: 1873-1886. Campbell affirmed the power of Congress to limit white immigration to the Indian Territory, and dealt with several issues involving states impeaching Confederate officials.

L.Q.C. Lamar: 1887-1893. The Lamar Court upheld the Manumission Amendment, over Lamar's dissenting votes. He upheld the right of states to strictly regulate the conduct of "residents" within their territory.

John Harlan: 1893-1911. Perhaps the most liberal Chief Justice in Confederate history, he upheld a permissive reading of the power of Congress to tax and spend under Art. I, Sec. 8.

Edward Douglass White: 1911-1921. White is perhaps most notable for decisions defending the detention of seditious persons, limiting the freedom of speech, and the expanded use of searches and seizures. Late in his career, the White Court affirmed that states had the right to relax laws governing Negroes.

James Clark McReynolds: 1921-1935. The final Chief Justice, McReynolds struck down a Freedom Party river and dams act (this was stretching jurisprudence to the limit, as Courts dating back to Harlan had nibbled away at the Internal Improvements Clause). Featherston used this as an excuse to abolish the Court.

found the suggested chief justices, thought they were mentioned before

what about associate justices? what was the size of the CS supreme court? did the size of the US supreme court change at all?
 
found the suggested chief justices, thought they were mentioned before

what about associate justices? what was the size of the CS supreme court? did the size of the US supreme court change at all?

I think if you search there maybe of mention of some Associate Justices but no definite list. Some Bios of Members of the two Supreme Court Members would be interesting.

There is a bio of Brandeis that Craigo put up
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=3125525&postcount=37
 
Happy Victory Day

I don't have any ideas on who might be Associate Justices could be, excpet that Craigo did the interesting thing of mixing up peoples professions. Like Cardozzo as a General, Omar Bradley and James Garfield as Chief Justices. So my point I guess is get creative with it maybe Assosiate Justice Jubal Early, Edmund Pettus(the guy the Selma Bridge was named after) etc.
Alexander Stephens post war defense of the Confederacy was probably the best reasoned defense of the Secession and the southern cause. He was also a respected Lawyer before the war. I could see him on the bench for a while.

There also some really interesting issues the CSA Supreme Court would face after it was constituted in 1866. Here is a big difference from the US Constitution
Article I §2(5) reads:
The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other officers; and shall have the sole power of impeachment; except that any judicial or other Federal officer, resident and acting solely within the limits of any State, may be impeached by a vote of two-thirds of both branches of the Legislature thereof.

Here the CSA constitution seems to support Nullification.
The CSA gave state legislatures the power to impeach federally-appointed state court judges and other federally-appointed state officials.This is relevant as some federal judicial districts at the time (and today) exist only within a single state, yet state governments are powerless to control them, because they are federal employees. This change thus gives (certain) states more power over their presiding federal judges, which in turn blurs the distinction between federal and state judicial authority.

More than likely this was quickly resolved or the CSA would have a difficult time enforcing any laws the State Legislature disagrees with. here is a handy comparison of the US/CS Constitutions.
http://www.jjmccullough.com/CSA.htm
 
Pettus, Alexander, yep, sounds good

what about Judah P. Benjamin? he was an accomplished lawyer

also, ive just realised that no one has done a confederate/us house and senate election results list, just lists of speakers
 
Where was when were bits about TL191 Cinema? here or After the end? with the butterflies, American Cinema would be interesting(specially the constrast north south and how both nations handled the ARW). Some thoughs about it?
 
Where was when were bits about TL191 Cinema? here or After the end? with the butterflies, American Cinema would be interesting(specially the constrast north south and how both nations handled the ARW). Some thoughs about it?

Craigo did an article on D.W. Griffith. All the Stuff on America Cinema in this thread is before the end of the Second Great War. Any thing after would be After the End, which we are trying to keep separate.


https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=3156904&postcount=97
 
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