TL-191 FILLING IN THE FUTURE

ZGradt

Banned
Great job on the soccer updates, George! Not just because of the exciting games, I really like imagining those potential games. The members participating in the IF kind of reflect on this world's history.

Also, great job with the Destruction article, Josh. To be honest, your version's better than my prototype version. The US enforcing equality by gun and bayonet means a lot of ex-Freedomites, ex-Confederate soldiers and civilians dying for their non-repentance.
 

Joshua Ben Ari

ZGradt said:
Also, great job with the Destruction article, Josh. To be honest, your version's better than my prototype version. The US enforcing equality by gun and bayonet means a lot of ex-Freedomites, ex-Confederate soldiers and civilians dying for their non-repentance.
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Thank you. It means a lot of ex-Freedom Party members and ex-Confederate soldiers are going to be resentful. And that means a lot of domestic terrorism against US soldiers, US and ex-Confederate civilians and even Destruction survivors. And because of this, Southern civilians will die and suffer because these diehards refuse to see that they lost.
 
Heavy

Heavy

Banned
I think I'm most interested in what happens to France after the Second Great War. It seems to me as though the destruction of Paris could conceivably be more difficult for them to weather than the loss of London would be for Britain.
 

Joshua Ben Ari

Heavy said:
I think I'm most interested in what happens to France after the Second Great War. It seems to me as though the destruction of Paris could conceivably be more difficult for them to weather than the loss of London would be for Britain.
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The loss of Paris does seem like it will be harder for the French, yeah. But I like to think the French will reconstruct the city; and in my post on French Jewry, I have them set up a provisional capital in Lyons (which is far enough away from any radioactive fallout). As for after the SGW, France is going to have to deal with being the former ally to a fundamentally racist and genocidal regime in Richmond, and the three defeats (1871, 1917, 1944) at the hands of Germany.
 

ZGradt

Banned
Joshua Ben Ari said:
The loss of Paris does seem like it will be harder for the French, yeah. But I like to think the French will reconstruct the city; and in my post on French Jewry, I have them set up a provisional capital in Lyons (which is far enough away from any radioactive fallout). As for after the SGW, France is going to have to deal with being the former ally to a fundamentally racist and genocidal regime in Richmond, and the three defeats (1871, 1917, 1944) at the hands of Germany.
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If the nuclear bombs used in the SGW are identical to Little Boy and Fat Man in terms of payload, then many of these cities would eventually be repopulated around the late 1940s to mid-1950s. If they were detonated when the bombs hit the ground like Philadelphia though, Paris might be uninhabitable until the late 1950s to mid 1960s.
 

President Mahan

Joshua Ben Ari said:
The Destruction and Beyond

The Destruction (also known as the Southern Holocaust, the Great Tragedy, and the Population Reduction) is classified as the most brutal and callous slaughter of civilians in modern history. Of 11.3 million Confederate Negroes enumerated in 1940, only 2.4 million survived the Destruction. Also targeted was the population of Haiti, a Negro republic in the Caribbean, and the Afro-Dominican population of the Dominican Republic.

All told, an estimated 10.4 to 10.6 million blacks were slaughtered by Featherston's Freedom Party and its allies. The Destruction, its legacy preserved with the discovery of the death and work camps that dotted Southern land, became the enduring symbol of Southern Freedomism, the failure of the United States, and the enduring cry of W.E.B. Du Bois, "never again!".

In total, 78.7% of the Southern Negro population was extinguished. Their blood screams out from the Southern soil, and whole families were butchered because of the color of their skin. The battered and broken survivors, protected by Northern guns during the American occupation of the former Confederacy, felt as if there were no god. If there was, why would He do this to them? Liberate them from the whips of Southern masters only to gas them in the death camps? The faithful tried as hard as they could to keep their faith, but the Destruction robbed them of the most precious thing: the flower of Negro youth.

Nearly half (47%) of the population of Haiti suffered the same fate. The leaders of the Confederacy sought, at first, to control Haiti and merely kill the leaders there. As the Second Great War progressed, and the Southern military machine seemed unstoppable, Featherston ordered the killing of Haitian men, women, and children. By the end of the war, as Southern soldiers fled the ruined country, they would destroy any town they could. Kill anyone they could find.

The Negroes of Haiti would return killing with killing. Armed bands of resistance fighters, later named Milice volontaire de Dessalines (MVD) or Voluntary Milita of Dessalines, would repay Confederate brutality with brutality in kind. 10,000 Confederate soldiers would be slaughtered by MVD forces between February and April 1944 (later historians would note a parallel between the MVD and the 1804 Haiti massacre 140 years prior), and their ships would be secured, and later form the bedrock of the revived Haitian Navy.

Then came The Day. July 14, 1944. The day the guns fell silent, and the South surrendered. The day the camps were liberated, and the surviving remnant of Confederate blacks felt the cool air of liberty for the first time. 2.4 million Southern blacks survived the war, and felt like strangers in a strange land. American soldiers policed the towns and cities, and the people who had butchered them just weeks before were treating them with civility.

Feeling unable to live among the ruins of the Southern towns, with people who despised them for the color of their skin, half a million would leave for Haiti between 1946 and 1947, and another half a million would leave for Liberia. Haiti, as one of two representatives in the eyes of the United States for the Negro people, became flush with U.S., German, Austro-Hungarian, and Quebecois reconstruction money. In 1949, Representative W.E.B. Du Bois (S-MA) would resign his seat and arrive in Haiti to help his people. Becoming a leader among the Haitian and Negro peoples, Du Bois was elected President of the reformed Negro republic in 1951. American advisors to the government came, to help restructure and restart the republic. Economic policies were coordinated with the United States, and military attaches became commonplace as they restarted the Haitian Defence Forces (HDF).

And in the Dominican Republic, the name Rafael Trujillo became verboten among citizens. The dictator, who sought to preserve his own state in the Confederate's New World order, surrendered to the death camps an estimated 100 to 250,000 Afro-Dominicans. In 1946, an American joint operations between the Marines and Navy went in and overthrew the dictator, installed a provisional occupation before recreating the Dominican Republic as the third republic in 1954. The Haitian-Dominican border became demilitarized, the government in Santo Domingo was "encouraged" to pay reparations, and renounced war forever as a means of foreign policy.

But it was the process of de-Freedomification that proved hardest. The ex-Confederate whites, who largely approved of the Destruction, didn't take kindly to being occupied by their eternal enemy. People bombs became common, with US Army bases as primary targets. In Southern cities, the murder rate spiked up as ex-Confederate Army soldiers would target their American counterparts. On 14 February 1945, in Spartanburg, South Carolina, a group of Freedomites took 20 US soldiers hostage, and executed 7 of them. 50 US special forces operatives raided the compound and killed all of the diehards. The city had to pay for the medical bills of the soldiers, and pay as well reparations to the families of the dead soldiers.

And most notable was the pamphlet Equality, which sought to utterly change race relations in the former Confederacy. General Morrell, in the pamphlet, mandated ex-Confederate whites treat blacks with the utmost civility and act as if they were equal to whites. As Clarence Potter would say, "It's a perverted application of the Golden Rule." The United States occupation forces were brutal in that regard. A black man killed for coughing at a white woman? Arrest the bastards responsible. The town uprises? Send in soldiers. Make them regret ever targeting the Negroes, or the soldiers. Equality at the point of a bayonet.

The schools of the South started teaching American history. That the Confederacy belonged in the United States. And with Negro students there, the US occupation hit home just how brutal and wrong the Destruction was. Integration was enforced at bayonet-point. The US was determined to make sure the South understood they could never harm Negroes or Americans ever again.

The Destruction nearly ended the Negro presence in North America. Jake the Snake nearly succeeded. But with each Negro birth, in the United States, in Haiti, in Occupied Canada, in the ex-CSA, Jake the Snake was beaten. With each Negro marriage, another bullet was put in the bastard. Jake the Snake may have killed nearly 80% of the Negro population, but they wouldn't let the bastard win. Not a chance in hell.

The unification process with the South was long and arduous. The men in Philadelphia were horrified at the extent of the Destruction, and many questioned whether it was a good idea to let the people who slaughtered so many into their country. But Dewey wanted to reunite the country with the South, to make sure the South could never again threaten the United States, and so they did. They would sit on the South until they made them good American citizens, and to make the country whole once more. Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas and Sequoyah were integrated by 1950, as they had been under American occupation since 1943.

The Mexican states of Sonora, Chihuahua and Baja California, with little resistance, were integrated into the Union by 1956. Cuba was admitted at the same time. Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida and Louisiana remained under American occupation.

On New Years Day, 1963, Louisiana and Georgia were (re)admitted to the Union. Three years later to the day, Florida, North Carolina, and Alabama were (re)admitted in time for the 1966 congressional elections. The beating hearts of the ex-Confederacy, South Carolina, was admitted to the Union on June 25, 1968. The states Mississippi and Virginia, the final hold-out states, were (re)admitted to the US on January 26 and February 23, 1970.
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Craigo had Cuba being admitted to the union on July 4th, 1946. Other than that I really enjopyed the post. I wonder how the population reduction survivors will feel when they arive in Liberia and see Liberians operating plantions like its before the Great War. Haiti would be interesting relocation. I imagine not everyone will want to stay.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=3126244&postcount=42
 

Kaiser K

I do wonder how Southern culture would be post-war, once the memories of the war began to fade and the generations of Southerners born or having grown up knowing nothing but the U.S. come of age, would they develop similarities to OTL German culture regarding the Reduction? what would happen when/if a Southerner gets elected President? would it be a defining moment of the nation being one once more?
 

Joshua Ben Ari

President Mahan said:
Craigo had Cuba being admitted to the union on July 4th, 1946. Other than that I really enjopyed the post. I wonder how the population reduction survivors will feel when they arive in Liberia and see Liberians operating plantions like its before the Great War. Haiti would be interesting relocation. I imagine not everyone will want to stay.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=3126244&postcount=42
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I'm so sorry, I didn't see that. I'll amend my articles to bring them in line with his.

I imagine the Destruction survivors who arrive in Liberia, when they see plantations there, will be a mix of angry and furious. They'll try and get them shut down as soon as possible.
 

ZGradt

Banned
Joshua Ben Ari said:
I'm so sorry, I didn't see that. I'll amend my articles to bring them in line with his.

I imagine the Destruction survivors who arrive in Liberia, when they see plantations there, will be a mix of angry and furious. They'll try and get them shut down as soon as possible.
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I could probably do an article on it. I finished an article mentioning Liberia trying to annex Sierra Leone, I can do a full-fledged article for Liberia post-SGW to 1970.
 

Joshua Ben Ari

ZGradt said:
I could probably do an article on it. I finished an article mentioning Liberia trying to annex Sierra Leone, I can do a full-fledged article for Liberia post-SGW to 1970.
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That would be amazing, yeah. I'd love to see what you see for Liberia post-SGW and dealing with knowledge of the Destruction
 

ZGradt

Banned
Republic of Liberia: 1940-70 Part I

Known internationally as "America's 'biological' son," Liberia's history from being a settler colony for freed African-American slaves to a modernized, militaristic nation in West Africa is viewed with a mixed reception internationally. To the US, it is more than just a place of liberty and democracy in West Africa. To the US, Liberia is a reminder of how much America has failed to protect its black brethren: from its independence from Great Britain in 1776 to the cotton fields of the southern States; from the morale-devastating Civil War and the secured independence of a state that wishes to enslave them for all eternity, to two world wars in which their country went from slavery to extermination...all while the northern country stood indifferent to their plight, so focused on exacting terrible vengeance. As part of America's repentance, Liberia along with Haiti, is one of the two nations where African-Americans are granted 'a right to return' to these two nations.

'This House Shall Not Stand': Legacy of the Devastation

The Confederate Devastation was a monstrous event, surpassing even the worst atrocities of the Hehero Massacres committed by the Germans. Only the Armenian Genocide could be arguably worse as the Ottoman Turks had achieved what the mad Featherston and his equally immoral cabal known as the Freedom Party could not: the destruction of a people and a nation[1]. Nevertheless, at least 10 million of African descent died as a result: Union, Confederacy, Dominican Republic, or Haiti, it did not matter to the white supremacist of what origin they were from so long as they were exterminated.

When news reached Liberia of this atrocity, the entire nation flew its flag in sorrow in honor of the victims. The President at the time, William Tubman, was especially deeply saddened as his agenda when he became President of Liberia was to reconcile the Amero-Liberian elite with the natives of Liberia. Tubman was aware that his fellow Amero-Liberians of past have treated the natives no better than their white slavedrivers have treated them, sometimes even worse. But even a tragedy of this magnitude was not going to move them to act. In a letter to President-Elect, Thomas Dewey, he expressed condolences to all the families of the victims and outrage that the Confederates would go through such lengths to get rid of them from the Americas. However, the letter's purpose had a second purpose: to ask for assistance. During the Second Great War then President La Follette and Tubman's predecessor, Edwin Barclay, would send coded messages to each other regarding the war effort in Africa. Liberian troops were able to hold their own against British colonial troops in Sierra Leone as well as the French Foreign Legion and colonial forces from French Ivory Coast, but without American intelligence operatives and covert arms the Liberians would've been occupied by French and British forces within the first few months of the war.

By June 1945, the first wave of ex-Confederate African Americans arrived in Monrovia. 50,000 arrived in cruise ships escorted by US destroyers to ensure any lingering Confederate submersibles didn't get any ideas of fulfilling Featherston's last dying wishes. 64 of those 50,000 immigrants however, were not intending to stay permanently. Cassius Madison along with his compatriots are part of the US Federal Intelligence and Investigative Services Taskforce (or FIIST, pronounced 'fist')[2], a hybrid successor of the Office of Strategic Services. Tubman's coded message was to ask for American operatives to 'persuade' several of his rivals to allow his liberal agenda to go through. Within two months of their stay, 17 of Tubman's most ardent opponents were not present when the Liberian President addressed the Liberian Congress, with both houses attending. In his famous "This House Shall Not Stand" speech: Tubman declared:

"For decades ever since our forefathers landed on the shores of Maryland and Monrovia, we treated the natives just like our slavemasters would treat us: with contempt, whips, and guns. No more, shall we treat our fellow Africans like this..."

"...Can you hear them? Can you hear the cries of your fellow men and women crying, begging, praying for salvation from the bullets and gas chambers of Featherston's death camps!? You can't...you can never hear of their despair, their desperation, their cries of death. And the worst part is: we are at fault."

"We are at fault for emulating a system that allowed the dreaded slavedriver to beat us, to whip us, to rape us when we did nothing wrong! What they did to us, we did upon our fellow African brothers and sisters! So what if they don't share the same 'enlightenments of civilization' as we do? They are our people, by blood, by history, by creed! Their lives, just like our forefathers' lives, have been nothing but treachery, exploitation, and death! We have discriminated against them, stole from them, disbarred them from ever being citizens...when they always had been our citizens! They are not the outsiders, we are! And how dare us, all of us, for not taking action to help our fellow brothers and sisters! We are all guilty of going down a path that would've led us to that same extreme if the Confederates hadn't done so!"

"So I say to you, my fellow brothers and sisters, that this house shall not stand! This Constitution, shall not stand! This discrimination towards our fellow man, shall not stand! The eradication of our people, shall not stand! This house divided, this entire nation, shall not stand! Not unless all are included, all are united in the cause of liberating the black people from their shackles! Whether you're from the Americas or from this land, we are all Africans! And we shall have this house built, as God as my witness, FOR ALL AFRICANS!!!"

Racing Against the Clock: Drafting a New Constitution

Tubman's speech was received with much applause, but Tubman knew he had to work fast. While the FIIST operatives kept Tubman's rivals tied up to prevent internal opposition from his reforms, he knew they could not keep them bound forever. Eventually, they would know who they are and who sent them. The Amero-Liberians would turn on the US, and on him, and they too would plan a similar operation to wipe out the opposition to their caste system; even if it meant conducting a Devastation upon their fellow man. On October 30, members of the True Whig Party along with tribal leaders of all 16 indigenous tribes gathered in Monrovia to hammer out a new Constitution, a new document that would bring new life to this nation and enfranchise all who are rightfully Liberian. By November 7, they did and this new 1945 Constitution of Liberia was signed by all who attended, including Tubman himself.

Liberia's second Constitution[3], nowadays called the Tubman Constitution, emulated the US Constitution of the period amendments and all, but also incorporated some elements from Imperial Germany's, as well as Haiti's new Constitution. Under this new document, all Liberians not just of Amero-Liberian descent, are now "free and full citizens under the eyes of the law." In addition, property requirements in order to obtain office were abolished and made illegal, meaning anyone from an upper-class Amero-Liberian to a traditional Mandinka tribal dancer could run for office, provided they are educated enough to understand the responsibilities that go with it. Freedom of speech was expanded, and the government could no longer sue for slander and libel unless they "have overwhelming, irrefutable evidence." In order to ensure fair representation as the population grows, the number cap of Representatives allowed in the lower chamber of Congress was abolished, allowing the people to be best represented; this would later be copied by its mother country when the Socialists win control of Congress and the White House again in 1960[4].

And with the repeal of the Port Acts of 1864 by his predecessor, German and American investment skyrocketed. State of the art hospitals were built, Monrovia had fully-paved streets by 1951, with other cities getting the same treatment. Schools for natives in the interior were built and began teaching in their native tongues as well as Liberian English and Liberian Creole. Local businesses run by interior tribes began to set up and prosper, all while foreign companies like the US Firestone Tin and Rubber Company began seeing skyrocketing profits as the increased enfranchisement of native Liberians flocked to the corporation's rubber plantations and tire factories. Tubman's reforms had shaken Liberian society to the core so much that mostly everyone was finally moving up...of course, that only made Tubman's enemies much more angrier at him for taking away their power.

[1] Its safe to say that the Armenian Genocide did achieve its goal of eliminating an ethnic group that the Turks did not like. Now I'm not saying every Armenian is now dead, what that means is that their homeland is now new real estate for Turkish/Azerbaijani settlers and the Armenians as a people no longer have the numbers or political clout to go and say, "hey, we're a Christian people and the Turks are killing us all!" This is one genocide that sadly will succeed TTL. :( The silver lining is that the Ottoman Turks are 100% guilty and can no longer claim that is was removing 'seditious and enemy populations,' and the Germans once again are complicit with the destruction of an ethnic group even if it wasn't by their own hand.
[2] Think of the FBI, CIA, and KGB all in one package. They will be a terrifying group later on, but right now we have Cassius Madison as a sympathetic operative.
[3] The Tubman Constitution is based off the OTL 1980 Constitution of Liberia, used to this day. Key differences here are that it automatically enfranchises all Africans who live there, regardless of ethnicity group and it did away with the property requirements instead of increasing them. Now, you'll notice I did not get rid of the controversial "Liberian citizenship is granted only to Negros or of Negro descent." That's going to be a huge flaw that either I or someone else will exploit.
[4] Yes, I intend to ensure TTL's US isn't shackled with a 435-member cap on the US House of Representatives. However, I did not mention any potential Socialist Presidents-to-be because I know you guys will want a consensus before anyone makes a judgement call on this.

----

I intended to this all in one article, but I have now spent 5 hours working on just this part. I will work on Part II of this article, along with my other prior commitments like Part II of Adolf Hitler, Part II of Mohammad Mossgddegh, and the continuing series on American gridiron football.
 
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Tiro

I will be very glad to see your further articles ZGradt - please allow me to compliment and to congratulate you upon the consistently high quality of your work (as well as the broad scope of your interests).:)
 

ZGradt

Banned
Tiro said:
I will be very glad to see your further articles ZGradt - please allow me to compliment and to congratulate you upon the consistently high quality of your work (as well as the broad scope of your interests).:)
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Thanks, Tiro. :)

To be fair, the broad scope was more specifically narrowed down to how my mother's homeland, the Philippines, would be affected by Japanese protection, then puppetization/colonization when TTL's Taisei Yokusankai comes to power. But then I realized that no one wrote an article on Japan prior to the Second Great War and to me, that needed to be written before I can write about my mom's country. As I started writing it though I thought, "what about *insert exotic country*? What about their nation, their culture, their people, how does it change or does it stay the same?" And that's kind of how I got to the broad scope of subjects; it makes more interesting storytelling if I have to go research things that I have little or no idea about.
 

GeorgeUK

Time for the 1982 World Cup seedings:

Pot 1

Britain (hosts)
Argentina (holders)
Brazil
Italy
Germany
Spain

Pot 2

Austria-Hungary
Russia
Lithuania
Bulgaria
Poland
Serbia

Pot 3

Belgium
Ireland
France
Quebec
Chile
Peru

Pot 4

Algeria
Kamerun
Ottoman Empire
El Salvador
Honduras
New Zealand
 

Gordian

How's this for an add-on to the list of future Presidents.

1945-1953:Thomas Dewey/Harry S Truman
1944: Charles W. La Follette/Jim Curley Harold Stassen/Walter Huxman
1948: Glen H. Taylor/Tucker P. Smith Harold Stassen/Gerald K. Nye
1953-1957:Everett Dirksen/William F. Knowland[1]
1952: Rexford Tugwell/Alger Hiss Jennings Randolph/John W. Byrnes
1957-1965:Darlington Hoopes/Robert F. Wagner Jr.[2]
1956: Everett Dirksen/William F. Knowland Harold Stassen/Quentin N. Burdick
1960: Joe Foss/John W. Reynolds Jr. Barry Goldwater/H. Martin Jackson[3]
1965-1969:Robert F. Wagner Jr./Otto Kerner, Jr.[4]
1964: Barry Goldwater/Walter Judd Joe Foss/John W. Reynolds


[1]Dirksen is a country club Democrat, and he governs as somewhat of a throwback to the days of Hoover. By the end of his first term the Socialists have finally gotten their act together again (and gotten past Smith & Blackford's legacies) and they're able to throw him out of office, with Hoopes running on positive portrayals of a social vision.

[2]Unexpectedly for Hoopes, his first term is taken up by the war with Japan. A year and a half later, with 5 Japanese cities obliterated and U.S. troops nearing the home islands, the U.S. celebrates it's 3rd victory with a newfound sense of maturity. New German leadership, on the other hand, is very uncomfortable with American domination of the Pacific...

[3]1960 would have been a landslide for Hoopes anyway; quite aside from the war he's begun the basis for a social democratic state at home. But the Goldwaterites take-over of the Democratic Party threatens to usher in a new age of Domestic politics. The people bombings, assasinations, and guerilla warfare of the last two decades makes quite a few Democrats sympathize with Goldwater's extreme Remembrance. The more flag-waving still vote for Hoopes after Kokura et al. and of the remainder, many are swept up by bright young moderate Joe Foss, who (very narrowly) comes in 2nd place. Interesting times...

[4]1964 turns out to be one of the closest elections in American history, making it the first time since 1824 that the election is thrown to the House. Mostly, this was a result of the strength of the Foss/Reynolds ticket, which took electoral votes that could have gone to the Socialists. With a hostile Congress after the 1962 midterms, Wagner has had trouble implementing his policies.

 

ZGradt

Banned
Joshua Ben Ari said:
Amazing post, ZGradt :)
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Thanks, bro. I really do want to give Liberia justice ITTL so I felt this was the best way.

However, that progress had a price: Tubman technically subverted democracy by having the US send FIIST agents to kidnap and hold Tubman's most powerful opponents until his new Constitution was ratified. And while the Second Republic of Liberia is experiencing prosperity, more so than OTL Liberia during that same period, the politicians held hostage are going to use this as a rallying point against Tubman's more radical policies.

Nivek said:
Where is there asian nations? they're banned to play because japan or something? or they're not that relevant in Football/Soccer Yet?
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Well, we haven't written anymore articles for Asia yet, so other than India and Iran George probably doesn't know if any Asian countries are able to play that aren't controlled by Japan.
 
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