TL-191 FILLING IN THE FUTURE

[GeorgeUK]

The 1970 IF World Cup

Held in Colombia, this tournament attracted controversy before it began. A qualifying playoff between Honduras and El Salvador sparked a five-day war between the two countries (only for El Salvador to lose out to Haiti in the final playoff) and a diplomatic incident nearly arose between the host nation and Britain (who were coming into the tournament off the back of victory in the 1968 European Championship) when the captain, Bobby Moore, was mistakenly accused of stealing a bracelet, although charges were later dropped. Argentina, Spain, Portugal and Uruguay all failed to qualify.

Group 1

1st: France 5pts
2nd: Mexico 5pts
3rd: Belgium 2pts
4th: Haiti 0pts

Due to identical points and goal difference, the top spot in this group was decided on the drawing of lots. Belgium recorded their first win in a World Cup, while Haiti failed to score a single goal.

Group 2

1st: Italy 4pts
2nd: Colombia 3pts
3rd: Sweden 3pts
4th: Ottoman Empire 2pts

Determined to improve on their semi-final in 1966, and their surprise defeat to Britain in the final of Euro 1968, Italy scraped top spot in the group thanks to their “cattenaccio” style of play, with a 1-0 win and 2 0-0 draws. Colombia edged out Sweden on goal difference, while the Ottoman Empire failed to record a win.

Group 3

1st: Brazil 6pts
2nd: Britain 4pts
3rd: Liberia 2pts
4th: Austria-Hungary 0pts

Brazil, looking to avoid a repeat of their 1966 performance, Brazil collected maximum points. Austria-Hungary crashed out spectacularly, even losing to minnows Liberia. Britain qualified, hoping for a first semi-final appearance.

Group 4

1st: Germany 6pts
2nd: Peru 4pts
3rd: Bulgaria 1pt
4th: Morocco 1pt

In what was known as the “Group of Life” Germany had a clear run through against relatively weak opposition. Peru were the other team to progress.

Quarter Finals

France 0-1 Colombia
Brazil 4-2 Peru
Italy 4-1 Mexico
Germany 2-1 Britain

A late goal in extra time saw the host nation eliminate the holders. Brazil continued to dominate the tournament, while Italy recovered from an early goal to sweep Mexico aside. The tie of the round was Germany against Britain; both Sepp Maier and Gordon Banks performed outstandingly but Gërd Muller was too hot for the European champions to handle and Germany made it through to the semi-finals again.

Semi Finals

Colombia 1-3 Brazil
Italy 4-3 Germany

An early goal by the hosts had their fans dreaming of glory but Brazil equalised just before half time and scored twice in the last fifteen minutes to reach the final. The other game, however, has since gone down as one of the best ever. Italy scored early on, but Germany levelled up at the death. In extra time, Muller put Germany in front, but Burgnich and Riva turned the game around. Muller brought Germany level, but as TV broadcasts replayed his goal, Rivera won the game for Italy.

Third place

Colombia 0-1 Germany

Final

Brazil 2-1 Italy

In an exciting game, Pele put Brazil ahead on 18 minutes. Italy levelled the score late in the first half, but Jairzinho put Brazil back in front with twenty minutes left. In winning their third title, Brazil won the Jules Rimet trophy outright. The next tournament would be co-hosted, in Poland and Lithuania.

Titles won:
1. Brazil 3
2= France, Austria-Hungary, Germany, Italy, Uruguay 1

 

[Nivek]

so we lost again brazil...some things never change, at least we loss figthing and four place is not that bad(and we were sweeped like the verdemarela )

The rest, brazil dream team do it, even with more fierce competition, ouch for A-H national team...

 

[Joshua Ben Ari]

I had an idea. We know that Superman exists in TL 191 in the United States as a comic, and the Confederates reacted with Hyperman. What would a TL 191 version of the X-Men look like? Take, for example, Magneto. In the comics and films, he is portrayed as a Holocaust survivor - in TL 191, he would a survivor of the Population Reduction. Maybe, and this is just me, in TL-191 films of X-Men, he would be portrayed by Morgan Freeman as an older version of the character, and controversially by British-born Idris Elba as a younger version.

 

[Tiro]

Now that is an interesting idea; I don't have any major ideas for Timeline-191 comics but it did occur to me that given the somewhat disillusioning course of events taken in this timeline (not only did the Holocaust occur right on schedule but it was executed by AMERICANS) one might think that Superheroes - with their innate Optimism and Idealism - would probably be sidelined to a degree in favour of more Pulp-style two-fisted adventurers, Mystery Men and similarly hard-nosed types.

I'd imagine that a number of the more popular capes would keep on trucking in their own niche and remain consistently popular as a ray of sunlight in very dark times indeed, but it could be that the post-War interregnum (when Westerns, War Stories and non-Long Underwear-types held sway) might last for a good bit long before a Silver Age of comics erupts as the zeitgeist takes an upward swing.

I'd like to imagine that this upward turn in the State of the Nation would coincide with the Bicentennial in 1976 (probably coinciding with the first of the Canadian Territories making the transition into United States and with the first 'Reformed' Southern States being admitted back into the Union); this Era of Good Feelings probably won't last as long as some might wish but it would make a nice Birthday Present for the USA in particular and a pretty nice time for the rest of North America too.

Perhaps the Olympic Games take place in the United States in this year too!

 

[Joshua Ben Ari]

Now that is an interesting idea; I don't have any major ideas for Timeline-191 comics but it did occur to me that given the somewhat disillusioning course of events taken in this timeline (not only did the Holocaust occur right on schedule but it was executed by AMERICANS) one might think that Superheroes - with their innate Optimism and Idealism - would probably be sidelined to a degree in favour of more Pulp-style two-fisted adventurers, Mystery Men and similarly hard-nosed types.

I'd imagine that a number of the more popular capes would keep on trucking in their own niche and remain consistently popular as a ray of sunlight in very dark times indeed, but it could be that the post-War interregnum (when Westerns, War Stories and non-Long Underwear-types held sway) might last for a good bit long before a Silver Age of comics erupts as the zeitgeist takes an upward swing.

I'd like to imagine that this upward turn in the State of the Nation would coincide with the Bicentennial in 1976 (probably coinciding with the first of the Canadian Territories making the transition into United States and with the first 'Reformed' Southern States being admitted back into the Union); this Era of Good Feelings probably won't last as long as some might wish but it would make a nice Birthday Present for the USA in particular and a pretty nice time for the rest of North America too.

Perhaps the Olympic Games take place in the United States in this year too!

I thought that too, that not only was the Destruction done on American soil, but it was done by Americans. But I think that after all that horror and sadness and bloodshed, that the people need something to believe in. They would need something positive and idealistic.

But don't get me wrong, pulp-style and noir is right up my alley (noir is my all-time favorite genre too) and I think that TL 191 writers would love to have something like that. But I feel that the audience would tire of it eventually, they would want something to believe in, and not be surrounded by gloom and doom. I agree, war stories would probably dominate in the immediate aftermath of the SGW, and mostly likely for a generation after.

But the idea of a revolutionary Magneto, suffering from the aftermath of Camp Determination, the destruction of Haiti, and the Freedom Party genocide, while vowing never again, would definitely resonate. And the idea of civil rights and integration is particularly important - the US is going to be integrating their Confederate and Canadian conquests, a new generation of ex-Confederates into the Union, dealing with the remnants of ex-Confederate Blacks, and the rise of a resurgent Canadian nationalist party.

I think the Olympic Games would be done in the re-unified United States, and they would definitely try to out-grandeur the 1936 Confederate Olympic Games. Either in Philadelphia (also showing that the city is reviving itself after the failed superbombing) or New York.

 

[Turquoise Blue]

Canadian states wpuld be admitted by 1964.

 

[Joshua Ben Ari]

Canadian states wpuld be admitted by 1964.

True, but I'd imagine that the comics come out when the Canadian states are still being integrated into the Union.

 

[teg]

The Treaty of Berlin

Title I

This treaty has been agreed between the German Empire; the Ottoman Empire; the Austro-Hungarian Empire; the United States of America; and the Tsardom of Bulgaria; the Republic of Chile and the Republic of Ireland, hereafter known as the Allied Powers, and the British Empire; the Kingdom of France; the Russian Empire; the Empire of Mexico; the Kingdom of Serbia; the Kingdom of Spain; the Kingdom of Romania and the Republic of Argentina, hereafter known as the Entente Powers.

The signatories of this recognize that certain other signatories are acting on behalf of the following nations. The United States of America is acting on behalf of; the Republic of Haiti; the Republic of Liberia, and the Republic of Texas. The German Empire is acting on behalf of; the Kingdom of the Ukraine; the Kingdom of Poland; the Kingdom of Finland; the Kingdom of the Netherlands; the Kingdom of Belgium; the Kingdom of Norway and the Kingdom of Denmark. The Republic of Chile is acting on behalf of; the Republic of Paraguay and the Republic of Uruguay. The British Empire is recognized as acting on behalf of; the Kingdom of South Africa, the Kingdom of Australia and the Kingdom of New Zealand.

With the ratification of the present treaty, the state of war between the Entente Powers and the Allied Powers will cease. From that moment and subject to the provisions of of this treaty, official relations will resume between between the Entente and Allied Powers.

The Entente Powers each recognize any claims against their territory by the Allied Powers which have been enumerated by this treaty. The Entente Powers pledge to cede any named territory to the nation named under this treaty with all due speed and not more than one (1) year after the ratification of this treaty. The Entente Powers recognize the independence of any states named in the provisions of this treaty.

The Entente Powers commit to respect the provisions of the Treaty of Los Angeles, which will terminate the state of war existing between the Empire of Japan, the Entente Powers, and the Allied Powers.

Title II

The British Empire cedes to the German Empire the territories currently known as British Nigeria; British Gold Coast; British Gambia; British Sierra Leone, British East Africa; British Somaliland; British Uganda; British Zanzibar; British Chagos Islands; British Aden; the British Trucial Coast and British Bahrain.

The Anglo-Egyptian Sudan will be ceded to the sovereignty of the Kingdom of Egypt, the German Empire and the Ottoman Empire, who will administer under a joint protectorate.

The British Empire cedes to the United States the territories currently known as British Honduras; British Guyana; the British Falkland Islands; British St. Helena; the British West Indies and British Ascension Island.

The British Empire cedes to the Ottoman Empire the territory currently known as British Kuwait.

The British colonies currently known as Rhodesia; Nysasaland and Bechuanaland will be relinquished by the British Empire. These territories are to be offered a plebiscite, no latter than one (1) year after the ratification of this treaty, which will determine their future status. These territories will be offered union with the Kingdom of South Africa or independence. If said territories accept independence, they are forbidden to enter any alliance with the British Empire or any of its kingdoms.

The British Empire recognizes the independence of the State of India.

The British Empire hereby revokes all military alliances and ties of overlord-ship with the Kingdom of South Africa; the Kingdom Australia and the Kingdom of New Zealand. The British Empire is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliance with these kingdoms.

The British Empire hereby revokes all military alliances with the Empire of Japan and the other Entente Powers. The British Empire is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliances with the Empire of Japan or the other Entente Powers.

The British Army must be demobilized within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. After this time, the British Army will number no more than 150,000 personnel including officers and establishments of depots. The British Army will be used for no other purpose than maintaining order in, and defending the territory of the British Empire not affected by this treaty.

The British Army will possess no barrels or armoured vehicles that could be adapted to become barrels at short notice. All existing examples of such machines must be destroyed within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. All establishments for the production, maintenance, storage or design of such machines must be closed within two (2) months of this treaty being signed.

The manufacture or storage of asphyxiating or poisonous gases is forbidden. The British Empire may not manufacture such materials for foreign governments.

The manufacture or storage of atomic weapons is forbidden. The British Empire will undertake no further research in this field of science. The British Empire may not manufacture such devices for foreign governments.

The Royal Marines are henceforth dissolved. Any replacement amphibious landing formations will count against the British Army's troop limitations.

The Royal Navy will be demobilized within four (4) months of the signing of this treaty. After this time, the Royal Navy will be permitted a total of 8 light battleships, 20 light cruisers, 20 destroyers, and 28 torpedo boats. These warships will not exceed the following tonnage; light battleships, 15,000 tonnes; light cruisers, 6,000 tonnes; destroyers, 800 tonnes; torpedo boats, 200 tonnes.

The Royal Navy is henceforth forbidden from possessing or constructing submersibles or aircraft carriers.

The Royal Navy may not construct or maintain bases of operation on the east coast of Britain further south than Inverness. The Royal Navy may not construct or maintain bases of operation on the south coast of Britain further east than Southampton. The Royal Navy may not construct or maintain bases of operation on the west coast of Britain between the Isle of Skye and Milford Haven.

The Royal Air Force will be demobilized within within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. After this time, the Royal Air Force will be permitted a total of 100 single-engine aircraft. These aircraft will not be organized in more than three squadrons. Bombers of any kind are strictly forbidden. Helicopters of any kind are strictly forbidden. In addition to these limitations, the Royal Air Force may maintain 10 aircraft capable of taking off and landing on water. These aircraft must not posses armaments of any kind.

The Royal Air Force may not construct or maintain bases of operation within the counties of Kent; East Sussex; Middlesex; Suffolk; Norfolk; Essex and Hertfordshire.

The British Empire will lease the Isle of Wight and the Shetland Isles and the Orkney Islands to the German Empire as military bases for a term of ninety-nine (99) years. The German Empire will have the option of extending this lease for a further two ninety-nine year terms. This lease will be considered a markdown against any reparations the British Empire will pay to the German Empire and the other members of the Allied Powers.

Title III

The Kingdom of France cedes to the German Empire the territories currently known as French Sudan; French Mauritania; French Senegal; French Guiena; French Ivory Coast; French Upper Volta; French French Niger; French Chad; French Oubangui-Chari and the French Indian Ocean Territories.

The Kingdom of France cedes to the Kingdom of the Netherlands the territories currently known as French Middle Congo; French Gabon and French Madagascar.

The Kingdom of France cedes to the German Empire the Algerian territories currently known as An-Sefra; Ghardaia; Oasis and Touggourt.

The Kingdom of France recognizes that the Kingdom of Morocco will henceforth be a protectorate under the German Empire.

The Kingdom of France will cede to the Kingdom of Beligum the region currently known as Nor Pas de Calais.

The Kingdom of France will cede to the Kingdom of Italy the deparment currently known as Alpes-Maritimes.

The Kingdom of France will recognize the independence of the Kingdom of Brittany. The territory of the Kingdom of Brittany will consist of the region currently known as Bretagne. All French forces will withdraw from this territory.

The Kingdom of France will relinquish its claims to the island of Corsica. No later than one (1) year after the ratification of this treaty, the inhabitants of the island of Corsica will be offered a plebiscite offering union with the Kingdom of Italy or independence.

The Kingdom of France will relinquish its claims to the island of New Caledonia and its other Pacific posessions. No later than one (1) year after the ratification of this treaty, the inhabitants of the island of New Caledonia and the French Pacific Islands will be offered a plebiscite offering union with the Kingdom of Australia, union with the United States America, or independence.

The French military is in all forms is hereby abolished. The French government may maintain no military forces of any kind within its territory not affected by this treaty. The French police may posses arms. These arms must be of no greater calibre than 9mm, must not be belt-fed, and must not weigh more than 20kg fully loaded.

The French government is permitted to maintain a military force in the portion of French Algeria not affected by the provisions of this treaty. This force may not number more than 30,000 personnel organized into two divisions. This force may not be recalled to France under any circumstances and may not posses barrels or aircraft of any kind.

The French government will make all of its ports available to German and American warships or merchant vessels, provided said ports are large enough to accommodate them. No charges will be levied for warships, and merchant vessels will be charged at a reduced rate for any repairs or other services said French ports render.

The Kingdom of France hereby revokes all military alliances with the Empire of Japan and the other Entente Powers. The Kingdom of France is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliances with the Empire of Japan or the other Entente Powers.


Title IV

The Mexican Empire will cede to the United States the territories currently known as Baja California and Baja California Sur.

Mexican military forces will withdraw no latter than one (1) month after the signing of this treaty from the provinces of Sinaloa; Durango; Coahuila; Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas. No fortifications or military forces are to be stationed in these provinces from that date forward. The movement of military forces into these provinces will be considered a hostile act against the Allied Powers.

The Mexican Empire will lease the port of Veracuz to the United States for a period of ninety-nine (99) years.

The Mexican Empire hereby revokes all military alliances with the Empire of Japan and the other Entente Powers. The Mexican Empire is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliances with the Empire of Japan or the other Entente Powers.

Title V

The Russian Empire will recognize the independence of the Kingdom of Finland, the Kingdom of the Ukraine, the Kingdom of Georgia, the Kingdom of Azerbaijan and the Kingdom of Poland. The Russian Empire will recognize the independence of the nations of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia as part of the United Baltic Duchy. The United Baltic Duchy will be a German protectorate.

In addition, the Russian Empire will recognize that the Polish border henceforth runs from the point where the Dnyapro River meets the present Ukrainian border to to the point where river meets the border of the United Baltic Duchy.

The Russian Empire will cede to the Kingdom of Finland the territory currently known as the Karelia.

The territory of the Russian Empire between its border with the Entente Powers acted for under this treaty by Germany, and fifty miles into Russian territory, will be permanently demilitarized. A commission will be established to arbitrate any disputes on the exact dimensions of the de-militarized zone.

The Russian Empire will lease the port of Magadan to the German Empire for a period of ninety-nine (99) years from the signing of this treaty.

The Russian Army must be demobilized within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. After this time, the Russian Army will number no more than 400,00 personnel including officers, reserves and establishments of depots. The British Army will be used for no other purpose than maintaining order in, and defending the territory of the British Empire not affected by this treaty.

The Russian Army will possess no barrels or armoured vehicles that could be adapted to become barrels at short notice. All existing examples of such machines must be destroyed within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. All establishments for the production, maintenance, storage or design of such machines must be closed within two (2) months of this treaty being signed.

The manufacture or storage of asphyxiating or poisonous gases is forbidden. The Russian Empire may not manufacture such materials for foreign governments.

The manufacture or storage of atomic weapons is forbidden. The Russian Empire will undertake no further research in this field of science. The Russian Empire may not manufacture such devices for foreign governments.

The Pale of Settlement is henceforth abolished. The Russian government will undertake to respect, defend and enhance the rights of all Jewish, Muslim and non-Orthodox Christian citizens living within its borders. Any citizens of these faiths who wish to emigrate will be allowed to do so and the Entente Powers undertake to accept any such refugees.

The Russian Empire hereby revokes all military alliances with the Empire of Japan and the other Entente Powers. The Russian Empire is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliances with the Empire of Japan or the other Entente Powers.

Title VI

The Kingdom of Spain will consent to free and fair elections under German and American supervision no more than one (1) year after the signing of this treaty.

The Kingdom of Spain will withdraw from the territory currently known as Gibraltar. Gibraltar will be established as a joint protectorate between the German Empire, the United States of America, the Ottoman Empire, and the Kingdom of Italy.

Title VII

The Kingdom of Romania is henceforth dissolved. Sovereignty of any Romanian territory not forfeited under this treaty will revert to the Principality of Moldova and the Principality of Wallachia.

The Principality of Wallachia will cede to the Tsardom of Bulgaria the territory currently known as North Dobruja.

The Principality of Moldova will cede to the Kingdom of the Ukraine the territory east and north of the Prut River.

Both the Principality of Moldova and the Principality of Wallachia will posses armed forces of no more than 50,000 men. No barrels, aircraft or poison gas are permitted.

Title VIII

The Serbian Army must demobilize within one (1) month of the signing of this treaty. After this time, no armed forces will be permitted. All responsible for order within the Kingdom of Serbia will be transferred to the Austro-Hungarian Army.

The Empire of Austro-Hungary will establish a commissioner who will represent Austro-Hungarian interests within the Kingdom of Serbia. The government of the Kingdom of Serbia will refer all domestic legislation to the commissioner for approval prior to said legislation being enacted. Serbian foreign policy will be under the direct control of the Empire of Austro-Hungary.

Title IX

The Republic of Argentina will cede to the Republic of Chile the eastern part of the Tierra de Fulego.

The Republic of Argentina will recognize the independence of the Republic of Uruguay. All Argentine military forces are to be withdrawn from the internationally recognized borders of the Republic of Uruguay within one (1) month of the signing of this treaty.

*

Ladies and gentlemen may I present to you the partial first draft of the Treaty of Berlin which ended the Second Great War outside of the Pacific. Part 2 will focus on reparations, war crimes trials and other associated issues. Suggestions, typo corrections and additions are welcome.

 

[bguy]

Ladies and gentlemen may I present to you the partial first draft of the Treaty of Berlin which ended the Second Great War outside of the Pacific. Part 2 will focus on reparations, war crimes trials and other associated issues. Suggestions, typo corrections and additions are welcome.

A fine start. My only questions are:

1) Why was Spain included in the treaty? I don't recall it being a participant in the Second Great War, so it seems out of line for the US and Germany to be including it. (Related question: when did Spain occupy Gibraltar?)

2) Why is Brittany being broken off from the rest of France?

Otherwise, the only additional provisions I think are needed for this section are to extend the prohibitions against chemical and atomic weapons to all of the defeated Entente nations (or their successor states) rather than just having those prohibitions apply against Britain and Russia.

 

[teg]

A fine start. My only questions are:

1) Why was Spain included in the treaty? I don't recall it being a participant in the Second Great War, so it seems out of line for the US and Germany to be including it. (Related question: when did Spain occupy Gibraltar?)

On reflection, it might be better to keep Spain out of the treaty. I did have a vague scenario in my head where Britain occupies Gibraltar (along with Malta) early in the war but gives it to Spain to extend its credit sometime in late 1943/44. After the war, Germany sends a very threatening fleet of ships to Gibraltar and the Spanish have to hand it over. Including them in the peace negotiations is basically a German way of saying 'we think you're as bad as the other lot, so watch out'. It backfires partially because the US, Italy and the Ottomans call for an international occupation of the Rock and Germany is forced to accept this. If people think this is implausible, I'll leave Spain out of the final draft.

2) Why is Brittany being broken off from the rest of France?

One reason is for the Kaiser to get rid of an annoying relative who is a bit too prominent to send to the colonies.

More importantly, Germany is trying do to France what it did to Russia post-WWI; break off bits of the country as independent states and use them as buffers/distractions against any resurgence of French power. Other parts of the treaty are also intended to do this; by giving Belgium and Italy parts of France, they permanently dissolve any hope of a Franco-Italian alliance, and will make the Belgians less likely to approve of the French in a future. Plus in Belgium's case it finally gives them compensation for Germany taking everything east of the Meuse.

Otherwise, the only additional provisions I think are needed for this section are to extend the prohibitions against chemical and atomic weapons to all of the defeated Entente nations (or their successor states) rather than just having those prohibitions apply against Britain and Russia.

In the case of France and Serbia, neither are allowed military forces of any meaningful kind [apart from the set up to fail colonial force permitted in Algeria]. If any of them try to build atomic weapons, then they're getting crushed so fast it isn't funny. Particularly Serbia. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Serbia's ultimate fate is to become the Palestine of this timeline after a Fifth Balkan 'War' leads to Austro-Hungary deciding to cut the pretence and annex Serbia completely. Its the same reason the Germans didn't ask for Alsace-Lorraine in the 1940 peace treaty with France - it was seen as so obvious that they were going to get those provinces that it didn't need to be mentioned.

As for the other Entente powers. Argentina isn't really hated enough to be given that treatment, plus it isn't much without Britain to support it and with Brazil hovering over its head. The other three, Wallachia; Molodova and Mexico are all seen as too poor to develop nuclear or chemical weapons. Arguably in Mexico's case this is short sighted but it is the prevailing assumption in 1945. If you think I should change, I will.

teg

 

[ZGradt]

I had a huge post regarding your treaty, but I decided to cut all the fat and just leave the basics:

1.) The US also needs to represent the Republic of Quebec, particularly its annexation of the islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon. As you said before, its assumed this would happen considering French control of these islands would nigh-impossible. Putting it in the treaty however would make it clear to France that it will have no overseas possessions anywhere.

2.) Speaking of the Americas, while the US can put up with British Guyana (give it to the Dutch or Brazil) and British Honduras (give to Guatemala), something like the South Sandwich and Falklands Islands would not be on the Americans' radar. They'll probably just put it to a vote, the Falklands and Sandwich Islands would vote to rejoin the UK and that would be the end of it, German protestations be damned.

3.) If France is going to be carved up more, I suggest more territorial acquisitions for Germany and Belgium. For Belgium, give them Picardy as well as Nor Pas de Calais. For Germany, give them the region of Champagne-Ardenne. Both regions are agricultural and have sparse populations in which the Germans can dominate with farmers and settlers of their own.

4.) Germany may be able to enforce the arms limitations treaties on the Entente, but its colonial empire is overbloated and overstreched. French West Africa, British East Africa, Middle East territories, as well as its Eastern European occupation zones and puppet states, that's too much for them to handle. Like it or not, the Germans will have to come up with something fast. Bullets, shells, and bombs can only do so much.

5.) This one's a nitpick rather than a criticism or suggestion, but the Union of South Africa is independent of the UK as of 1921. So it wouldn't be called the Kingdom/Dominion of South Africa since it no longer recognizes the British monarch as its head of state.

6.) Also, Italy didn't participate in either Great War. so why is it getting Alps-Maritimes?

 

[Kuamong]

snip

1.) Yes, and furthermore, unless Quebec didn't already own it, I would toss in Newfoundland.

2.) I disagree. The United States could use the islands as the jumping off point for Antarctic expiditions. Additionally, the whaling industry (if it is in any shape to continue operating) used the islands as a base. OTL the last operating station was shut down in 1965, so there could be some cash flow there. Secondly, it denies Britain stuff.

3.) Agreed. Although if I remember correctly, didn't Belgium aid the Entente powers during GW2?

4.) I would agree. Arguably, I would let the Entente powers decolonize their territory, rather than have to take on the costs themselves.

6.) Because Fuck France.

 

[bguy]

As for the other Entente powers. Argentina isn't really hated enough to be given that treatment, plus it isn't much without Britain to support it and with Brazil hovering over its head. The other three, Wallachia; Molodova and Mexico are all seen as too poor to develop nuclear or chemical weapons. Arguably in Mexico's case this is short sighted but it is the prevailing assumption in 1945. If you think I should change, I will.

I would think the Allied Powers would insist on all the Entente nations being included. Otherwise, there's a massive loophole in the treaty, and a few years down the road there will probably be a surprisingly large number of British nuclear physicists who have suddenly become Argentinian "citizens".

1.) The US also needs to represent the Republic of Quebec, particularly its annexation of the islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon. As you said before, its assumed this would happen considering French control of these islands would nigh-impossible. Putting it in the treaty however would make it clear to France that it will have no overseas possessions anywhere.

Surely, those islands were taken from France at the end of the First Great War?

2.) Speaking of the Americas, while the US can put up with British Guyana (give it to the Dutch or Brazil) and British Honduras (give to Guatemala), something like the South Sandwich and Falklands Islands would not be on the Americans' radar. They'll probably just put it to a vote, the Falklands and Sandwich Islands would vote to rejoin the UK and that would be the end of it, German protestations be damned.

Wouldn't the Falklands be seen as a useful potential air/naval base for blockading Argentina? Cutting Argentinian food shipments to Britain was critical for winning the First Great War, so I think the US would be interested in the islands.

4.) I would agree. Arguably, I would let the Entente powers decolonize their territory, rather than have to take on the costs themselves.

That sets a very dangerous precedent for Germany's own African colonies though. Once the genie of decolonization is out of the bottle, it's going to be very hard for any European country to maintain their African colonies.

The other question I have is what about Alaska? If the US is wanting to remove the last vestiges of the Entente Powers from the Western Hemisphere then wouldn't it insist on the Russians ceding Alaska and the Aleutians?

 

[ZGradt]

I would think the Allied Powers would insist on all the Entente nations being included. Otherwise, there's a massive loophole in the treaty, and a few years down the road there will probably be a surprisingly large number of British nuclear physicists who have suddenly become Argentinian "citizens".

Exactly. All nations that were part of the Entente, big or small, would need to have those restrictions placed on them.

Surely, those islands were taken from France at the end of the First Great War?

This is Turtledove's work we're talking about. Might as well cover all bases.

Wouldn't the Falklands be seen as a useful potential air/naval base for blockading Argentina? Cutting Argentinian food shipments to Britain was critical for winning the First Great War, so I think the US would be interested in the islands.

Didn't see it that way. Alright, that would make sense.

That sets a very dangerous precedent for Germany's own African colonies though. Once the genie of decolonization is out of the bottle, it's going to be very hard for any European country to maintain their African colonies.

The other question I have is what about Alaska? If the US is wanting to remove the last vestiges of the Entente Powers from the Western Hemisphere then wouldn't it insist on the Russians ceding Alaska and the Aleutians?

That's where the fault lies at Germany's feet. The main conservative elements, the Junkers who mostly support the monarchist and militarist Conservative Party, could care less about overseas colonies and would rather see Poland and the Baltics as German colonies if not outright annexed.

Germany's African colonies were the result of the Berlin Conference in attempt to shut up the the more liberal-leaning capitalists who were worried that Germany would fall to the wayside in terms of economic development if it did not have these chunks of land. Now that they own 70-75% of Africa, they're going to need to find some way to either keep their territories from external threats (South Africa will be looking at German Southwest Africa with lustful eyes, same with Liberia towards Sierra Leone) or native rebellions. They can surely use the "we have the MG42 and they do not" rule to keep the natives down, but there's only so much bullets and Mr. Grim himself can do to keep the natives from being very vocal and pissed off.

On Alaska, I agree. Especially since I feel like all the bases need to be covered to prevent any gaps that the Entente could use. If Germany intends to be harsh as possible, it needs to be very specific with its punishments.

 

[bguy]

Germany's African colonies were the result of the Berlin Conference in attempt to shut up the the more liberal-leaning capitalists who were worried that Germany would fall to the wayside in terms of economic development if it did not have these chunks of land. Now that they own 70-75% of Africa, they're going to need to find some way to either keep their territories from external threats (South Africa will be looking at German Southwest Africa with lustful eyes, same with Liberia towards Sierra Leone) or native rebellions. They can surely use the "we have the MG42 and they do not" rule to keep the natives down, but there's only so much bullets and Mr. Grim himself can do to keep the natives from being very vocal and pissed off.

So Germany definitely needs to trim its appetite a little bit in Africa. How about this instead as a possible disposition of the African colonies it was suggested Germany take:


Take:

British Gold Coast: It's one of the more profitable African colonies (the world's leading exporter of cocoa), and since it is next to Togoland, it helps provide a little defensive depth there.

British East Africa: It is right next to German East Africa, and Kenya is potentially suitable for white settlement.

British Uganda: Next to both German East Africa and the German Congo.

British Zanzibar: This is a dagger pointed right at German East Africa. (Honestly, I would expect Germany to have taken it after the First Great War.)

French Oubangui-Chari: Since it borders both Cameroon and the German Congo it's probably worth taking.

French Ivory Coast: The only French West African colony that was profitable.


Give to another power:

British Sierra Leone: Maybe let Liberia take this one.

Sudan: Let the Egyptians have full responsibility for this one.



Let the Entente nations keep:

British Nigeria: It's the most populous nation in Africa, so it is going to be difficult for Germany to hold down without substantial investment. Easier to just let the British deal with it.

British Gambia: No real reason to take this one. Might as well let Britain keep it.

British and French Somaliland: With Egypt as a German puppet there is no real danger of the Suez Canal being used by the Entente, so there's really no need for Germany to mess around in Somaliland (or Aden for that matter.)

French Mauritania; French Senegal; French Guiena; French Upper Volta; French French Niger; French Chad: All of these colonies are a financial loss. Might as well let the French keep them.

An-Sefra; Ghardaia; Oasis and Touggourt: Since the Germans aren't taking Mauretania, Upper Senegal, or Niger, there's no reason to take these lands either.


That's still the Germans taking a large chunk of Africa, but with Germany not trying to absorb Nigeria, the Sudan, and most of German West Africa, it should be much more manageable. It will also probably look more reasonable to the Americans (who might otherwise be rather put out by what looks like Germany trying to grab most of Africa.) And it arguably makes Britain and France weaker than the original proposal, since it leaves both nations with a number of unprofitable colonies that they can't really afford, but which their pride might not let them relinquish.

 

[ZGradt]

So Germany definitely needs to trim its appetite a little bit in Africa. How about this instead as a possible disposition of the African colonies it was suggested Germany take:


Take:

British Gold Coast: It's one of the more profitable African colonies (the world's leading exporter of cocoa), and since it is next to Togoland, it helps provide a little defensive depth there.

British East Africa: It is right next to German East Africa, and Kenya is potentially suitable for white settlement.

British Uganda: Next to both German East Africa and the German Congo.

British Zanzibar: This is a dagger pointed right at German East Africa. (Honestly, I would expect Germany to have taken it after the First Great War.)

French Oubangui-Chari: Since it borders both Cameroon and the German Congo it's probably worth taking.

French Ivory Coast: The only French West African colony that was profitable.


Give to another power:

British Sierra Leone: Maybe let Liberia take this one.

Sudan: Let the Egyptians have full responsibility for this one.



Let the Entente nations keep:

British Nigeria: It's the most populous nation in Africa, so it is going to be difficult for Germany to hold down without substantial investment. Easier to just let the British deal with it.

British Gambia: No real reason to take this one. Might as well let Britain keep it.

British and French Somaliland: With Egypt as a German puppet there is no real danger of the Suez Canal being used by the Entente, so there's really no need for Germany to mess around in Somaliland (or Aden for that matter.)

French Mauritania; French Senegal; French Guiena; French Upper Volta; French French Niger; French Chad: All of these colonies are a financial loss. Might as well let the French keep them.

An-Sefra; Ghardaia; Oasis and Touggourt: Since the Germans aren't taking Mauretania, Upper Senegal, or Niger, there's no reason to take these lands either.


That's still the Germans taking a large chunk of Africa, but with Germany not trying to absorb Nigeria, the Sudan, and most of German West Africa, it should be much more manageable. It will also probably look more reasonable to the Americans (who might otherwise be rather put out by what looks like Germany trying to grab most of Africa.) And it arguably makes Britain and France weaker than the original proposal, since it leaves both nations with a number of unprofitable colonies that they can't really afford, but which their pride might not let them relinquish.

A fine suggestion. It also allows Italy to swoop in and take the rest of the Somalilands with Egypt and Germany in control of the Suez. Whatever the British and French can't hold over the next few decades can either be taken by Spain, Portugal, Italy, Liberia, or South Africa at no cost to Germany.

As a matter of fact, Germany could probably bargain with South Africa for mineral rights in the country in return for German Southwest Africa; its the least profitable colony for the Second Reich and it has failed as a settler colony. One colony for a virtual monopoly on diamonds in that country can be easily sold to the people since Germany now possesses more of Africa.

But that's up to teg I suppose.

 

[GeorgeUK]

The Treaty of Berlin

Title I

This treaty has been agreed between the German Empire; the Ottoman Empire; the Austro-Hungarian Empire; the United States of America; and the Tsardom of Bulgaria; the Republic of Chile and the Republic of Ireland, hereafter known as the Allied Powers, and the British Empire; the Kingdom of France; the Russian Empire; the Empire of Mexico; the Kingdom of Serbia; the Kingdom of Spain; the Kingdom of Romania and the Republic of Argentina, hereafter known as the Entente Powers.

The signatories of this recognize that certain other signatories are acting on behalf of the following nations. The United States of America is acting on behalf of; the Republic of Haiti; the Republic of Liberia, and the Republic of Texas. The German Empire is acting on behalf of; the Kingdom of the Ukraine; the Kingdom of Poland; the Kingdom of Finland; the Kingdom of the Netherlands; the Kingdom of Belgium; the Kingdom of Norway and the Kingdom of Denmark. The Republic of Chile is acting on behalf of; the Republic of Paraguay and the Republic of Uruguay. The British Empire is recognized as acting on behalf of; the Kingdom of South Africa, the Kingdom of Australia and the Kingdom of New Zealand.

With the ratification of the present treaty, the state of war between the Entente Powers and the Allied Powers will cease. From that moment and subject to the provisions of of this treaty, official relations will resume between between the Entente and Allied Powers.

The Entente Powers each recognize any claims against their territory by the Allied Powers which have been enumerated by this treaty. The Entente Powers pledge to cede any named territory to the nation named under this treaty with all due speed and not more than one (1) year after the ratification of this treaty. The Entente Powers recognize the independence of any states named in the provisions of this treaty.

The Entente Powers commit to respect the provisions of the Treaty of Los Angeles, which will terminate the state of war existing between the Empire of Japan, the Entente Powers, and the Allied Powers.

Title II

The British Empire cedes to the German Empire the territories currently known as British Nigeria; British Gold Coast; British Gambia; British Sierra Leone, British East Africa; British Somaliland; British Uganda; British Zanzibar; British Chagos Islands; British Aden; the British Trucial Coast and British Bahrain.

The Anglo-Egyptian Sudan will be ceded to the sovereignty of the Kingdom of Egypt, the German Empire and the Ottoman Empire, who will administer under a joint protectorate.

The British Empire cedes to the United States the territories currently known as British Honduras; British Guyana; the British Falkland Islands; British St. Helena; the British West Indies and British Ascension Island.

The British Empire cedes to the Ottoman Empire the territory currently known as British Kuwait.

The British colonies currently known as Rhodesia; Nysasaland and Bechuanaland will be relinquished by the British Empire. These territories are to be offered a plebiscite, no latter than one (1) year after the ratification of this treaty, which will determine their future status. These territories will be offered union with the Kingdom of South Africa or independence. If said territories accept independence, they are forbidden to enter any alliance with the British Empire or any of its kingdoms.

The British Empire recognizes the independence of the State of India.

The British Empire hereby revokes all military alliances and ties of overlord-ship with the Kingdom of South Africa; the Kingdom Australia and the Kingdom of New Zealand. The British Empire is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliance with these kingdoms.

The British Empire hereby revokes all military alliances with the Empire of Japan and the other Entente Powers. The British Empire is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliances with the Empire of Japan or the other Entente Powers.

The British Army must be demobilized within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. After this time, the British Army will number no more than 150,000 personnel including officers and establishments of depots. The British Army will be used for no other purpose than maintaining order in, and defending the territory of the British Empire not affected by this treaty.

The British Army will possess no barrels or armoured vehicles that could be adapted to become barrels at short notice. All existing examples of such machines must be destroyed within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. All establishments for the production, maintenance, storage or design of such machines must be closed within two (2) months of this treaty being signed.

The manufacture or storage of asphyxiating or poisonous gases is forbidden. The British Empire may not manufacture such materials for foreign governments.

The manufacture or storage of atomic weapons is forbidden. The British Empire will undertake no further research in this field of science. The British Empire may not manufacture such devices for foreign governments.

The Royal Marines are henceforth dissolved. Any replacement amphibious landing formations will count against the British Army's troop limitations.

The Royal Navy will be demobilized within four (4) months of the signing of this treaty. After this time, the Royal Navy will be permitted a total of 8 light battleships, 20 light cruisers, 20 destroyers, and 28 torpedo boats. These warships will not exceed the following tonnage; light battleships, 15,000 tonnes; light cruisers, 6,000 tonnes; destroyers, 800 tonnes; torpedo boats, 200 tonnes.

The Royal Navy is henceforth forbidden from possessing or constructing submersibles or aircraft carriers.

The Royal Navy may not construct or maintain bases of operation on the east coast of Britain further south than Inverness. The Royal Navy may not construct or maintain bases of operation on the south coast of Britain further east than Southampton. The Royal Navy may not construct or maintain bases of operation on the west coast of Britain between the Isle of Skye and Milford Haven.

The Royal Air Force will be demobilized within within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. After this time, the Royal Air Force will be permitted a total of 100 single-engine aircraft. These aircraft will not be organized in more than three squadrons. Bombers of any kind are strictly forbidden. Helicopters of any kind are strictly forbidden. In addition to these limitations, the Royal Air Force may maintain 10 aircraft capable of taking off and landing on water. These aircraft must not posses armaments of any kind.

The Royal Air Force may not construct or maintain bases of operation within the counties of Kent; East Sussex; Middlesex; Suffolk; Norfolk; Essex and Hertfordshire.

The British Empire will lease the Isle of Wight and the Shetland Isles and the Orkney Islands to the German Empire as military bases for a term of ninety-nine (99) years. The German Empire will have the option of extending this lease for a further two ninety-nine year terms. This lease will be considered a markdown against any reparations the British Empire will pay to the German Empire and the other members of the Allied Powers.

Title III

The Kingdom of France cedes to the German Empire the territories currently known as French Sudan; French Mauritania; French Senegal; French Guiena; French Ivory Coast; French Upper Volta; French French Niger; French Chad; French Oubangui-Chari and the French Indian Ocean Territories.

The Kingdom of France cedes to the Kingdom of the Netherlands the territories currently known as French Middle Congo; French Gabon and French Madagascar.

The Kingdom of France cedes to the German Empire the Algerian territories currently known as An-Sefra; Ghardaia; Oasis and Touggourt.

The Kingdom of France recognizes that the Kingdom of Morocco will henceforth be a protectorate under the German Empire.

The Kingdom of France will cede to the Kingdom of Beligum the region currently known as Nor Pas de Calais.

The Kingdom of France will cede to the Kingdom of Italy the deparment currently known as Alpes-Maritimes.

The Kingdom of France will recognize the independence of the Kingdom of Brittany. The territory of the Kingdom of Brittany will consist of the region currently known as Bretagne. All French forces will withdraw from this territory.

The Kingdom of France will relinquish its claims to the island of Corsica. No later than one (1) year after the ratification of this treaty, the inhabitants of the island of Corsica will be offered a plebiscite offering union with the Kingdom of Italy or independence.

The Kingdom of France will relinquish its claims to the island of New Caledonia and its other Pacific posessions. No later than one (1) year after the ratification of this treaty, the inhabitants of the island of New Caledonia and the French Pacific Islands will be offered a plebiscite offering union with the Kingdom of Australia, union with the United States America, or independence.

The French military is in all forms is hereby abolished. The French government may maintain no military forces of any kind within its territory not affected by this treaty. The French police may posses arms. These arms must be of no greater calibre than 9mm, must not be belt-fed, and must not weigh more than 20kg fully loaded.

The French government is permitted to maintain a military force in the portion of French Algeria not affected by the provisions of this treaty. This force may not number more than 30,000 personnel organized into two divisions. This force may not be recalled to France under any circumstances and may not posses barrels or aircraft of any kind.

The French government will make all of its ports available to German and American warships or merchant vessels, provided said ports are large enough to accommodate them. No charges will be levied for warships, and merchant vessels will be charged at a reduced rate for any repairs or other services said French ports render.

The Kingdom of France hereby revokes all military alliances with the Empire of Japan and the other Entente Powers. The Kingdom of France is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliances with the Empire of Japan or the other Entente Powers.


Title IV

The Mexican Empire will cede to the United States the territories currently known as Baja California and Baja California Sur.

Mexican military forces will withdraw no latter than one (1) month after the signing of this treaty from the provinces of Sinaloa; Durango; Coahuila; Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas. No fortifications or military forces are to be stationed in these provinces from that date forward. The movement of military forces into these provinces will be considered a hostile act against the Allied Powers.

The Mexican Empire will lease the port of Veracuz to the United States for a period of ninety-nine (99) years.

The Mexican Empire hereby revokes all military alliances with the Empire of Japan and the other Entente Powers. The Mexican Empire is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliances with the Empire of Japan or the other Entente Powers.

Title V

The Russian Empire will recognize the independence of the Kingdom of Finland, the Kingdom of the Ukraine, the Kingdom of Georgia, the Kingdom of Azerbaijan and the Kingdom of Poland. The Russian Empire will recognize the independence of the nations of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia as part of the United Baltic Duchy. The United Baltic Duchy will be a German protectorate.

In addition, the Russian Empire will recognize that the Polish border henceforth runs from the point where the Dnyapro River meets the present Ukrainian border to to the point where river meets the border of the United Baltic Duchy.

The Russian Empire will cede to the Kingdom of Finland the territory currently known as the Karelia.

The territory of the Russian Empire between its border with the Entente Powers acted for under this treaty by Germany, and fifty miles into Russian territory, will be permanently demilitarized. A commission will be established to arbitrate any disputes on the exact dimensions of the de-militarized zone.

The Russian Empire will lease the port of Magadan to the German Empire for a period of ninety-nine (99) years from the signing of this treaty.

The Russian Army must be demobilized within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. After this time, the Russian Army will number no more than 400,00 personnel including officers, reserves and establishments of depots. The British Army will be used for no other purpose than maintaining order in, and defending the territory of the British Empire not affected by this treaty.

The Russian Army will possess no barrels or armoured vehicles that could be adapted to become barrels at short notice. All existing examples of such machines must be destroyed within two (2) months of the signing of this treaty. All establishments for the production, maintenance, storage or design of such machines must be closed within two (2) months of this treaty being signed.

The manufacture or storage of asphyxiating or poisonous gases is forbidden. The Russian Empire may not manufacture such materials for foreign governments.

The manufacture or storage of atomic weapons is forbidden. The Russian Empire will undertake no further research in this field of science. The Russian Empire may not manufacture such devices for foreign governments.

The Pale of Settlement is henceforth abolished. The Russian government will undertake to respect, defend and enhance the rights of all Jewish, Muslim and non-Orthodox Christian citizens living within its borders. Any citizens of these faiths who wish to emigrate will be allowed to do so and the Entente Powers undertake to accept any such refugees.

The Russian Empire hereby revokes all military alliances with the Empire of Japan and the other Entente Powers. The Russian Empire is henceforth forbidden from forming any future alliances with the Empire of Japan or the other Entente Powers.

Title VI

The Kingdom of Spain will consent to free and fair elections under German and American supervision no more than one (1) year after the signing of this treaty.

The Kingdom of Spain will withdraw from the territory currently known as Gibraltar. Gibraltar will be established as a joint protectorate between the German Empire, the United States of America, the Ottoman Empire, and the Kingdom of Italy.

Title VII

The Kingdom of Romania is henceforth dissolved. Sovereignty of any Romanian territory not forfeited under this treaty will revert to the Principality of Moldova and the Principality of Wallachia.

The Principality of Wallachia will cede to the Tsardom of Bulgaria the territory currently known as North Dobruja.

The Principality of Moldova will cede to the Kingdom of the Ukraine the territory east and north of the Prut River.

Both the Principality of Moldova and the Principality of Wallachia will posses armed forces of no more than 50,000 men. No barrels, aircraft or poison gas are permitted.

Title VIII

The Serbian Army must demobilize within one (1) month of the signing of this treaty. After this time, no armed forces will be permitted. All responsible for order within the Kingdom of Serbia will be transferred to the Austro-Hungarian Army.

The Empire of Austro-Hungary will establish a commissioner who will represent Austro-Hungarian interests within the Kingdom of Serbia. The government of the Kingdom of Serbia will refer all domestic legislation to the commissioner for approval prior to said legislation being enacted. Serbian foreign policy will be under the direct control of the Empire of Austro-Hungary.

Title IX

The Republic of Argentina will cede to the Republic of Chile the eastern part of the Tierra de Fulego.

The Republic of Argentina will recognize the independence of the Republic of Uruguay. All Argentine military forces are to be withdrawn from the internationally recognized borders of the Republic of Uruguay within one (1) month of the signing of this treaty.

*

Ladies and gentlemen may I present to you the partial first draft of the Treaty of Berlin which ended the Second Great War outside of the Pacific. Part 2 will focus on reparations, war crimes trials and other associated issues. Suggestions, typo corrections and additions are welcome.

This is a good idea on what to do with Churchill and Mosley:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=11212531&postcount=1735

 

[ZGradt]

Here's my last attempt at making the US-CS Football Article. I say last because this time I'm copying everything I type here so in case I get logged off due to inactivity, I won't have to write the whole thing all over again.

K, here it goes.

US-CS Football Games

Even before the First Great War, gridiron football was the one thing both Americans and Confederates could agree with one another. Any rule change would be debated by both American and Confederate clubs before it was accepted or rejected outright. The American adoption of the forward pass would've been earlier than its actual adoption in 1919, but the outbreak of the First Great War forestalled any attempt to match their Confederate counterparts. Likewise, before the First Great War both teams agreed to reduce the points gained from field goals from 5 to 3 in order to increase the use of forward passes and encourage more dynamic offenses.

Talks of international play between the two nations were much more contentious, but prior to Theodore Roosevelt's Presidency his predecessors had no vocal objections to American footballers playing against the Confederate counterparts. Games between the two nations took place in border towns, particularly along the Arkansas-Missouri border and Virginia-Maryland border which were the most popular destinations to have international games.

Following the ascension of Theodore Roosevelt into the Powell House and the following First Great War, US clubs were implicitly banned from playing their Confederate counterparts. While it was likely that Confederate footballers could've been used as spies to monitor US troop advancements, those concerns were ultimately incorrect as many footballers from both the American and Confederate nations were drafted into the front lines. Nevertheless, the animosity held by both nations even after the end of the First Great War ensured that no games would ever play between the now established professional teams.

The Great Depression ironically remedied that animosity amongst gridiron footballers. Marshall in particular was an advocate of seeing Confederate teams play against the American ones. However, it would not be until the presidencies of Jake Featherston of the CSA and Al Smith of the USA that this would become a reality. Even with Richmond hosting the 1936 Olympics, Featherston believed that Marshall's suggestion of pitting Confederate teams against the American ones would prove that Marshall's white-dominated CFL is superior to the "nigger and mixed-race mongrel American teams." In 1938, that thought was put to the test with 6 exhibition games. Three teams from each of the two US leagues would be pitted against the CFL teams, the NFL versus the CFL on October 8, the Pacific Football League on the 9th.

1938 Exhibition Games

October 8:
Boston Minutemen versus Richmond Rebels at Richmond, Virginia: 33-27, Boston in OT. By far, this was the most violent and controversial match in gridiron history. Ironically, the Barrels were supposed to play the Rebels but were switched to play the Braves for fear of triggering that very violence. What was supposed to be a clean game turned into a fight-or-die situation between the teams and their fans. The Minutemen QB, Jerome Ashley, was crushed under 6 Rebels defenders in the 3rd Quarter, but was not ruled by the refs as intentional roughhousing. Ashley would later perish that day during the middle of 4th Quarter, which angered the Minutemen so much that during a Rebels 3rd and 5 on the Rebels' 47 yardline with 6:01 left on the clock the Minutemen defensive line broke formation early to attack the Rebels' entire offensive line. The slugfest lasted for 15 minutes before refs and security finally broke the fight apart. When it was over, 3 Minutemen defenders were banned from the game and forced to leave the stadium, while 2 Rebels were also banned and forced to leave. Rebels receiver, Jefferson Ronald, was carted off the field with a collapsed ribcage, his left arm broken in multiple places, and a skull fracture. He too would die that day, mere seconds after the Minutemen's overtime victory with a 44-yard catch into the redzone. The fight between the two teams was tame compared to the fans however. Ashley's death triggered an entire section of Minutemen fans to attack the home crowd with beer bottles and memorabilia helmets. 712 fans from both teams were injured, many of them were lacerations from broken glass, with 37 immediate fatalities, and another 103 dead while in the ER.

Atlanta Braves vs Philadelphia Barrels at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: 19-48, Philadelphia. Chronologically, this would've been the second game to be played an hour after the Boston vs Richmond game started. However, due to the switching of teams at the last minute, this was the last game played that day due to increased preparation time for both the Barrels and Braves. Due to increased security, Barrels fans were not going to avenge their Boston brethren as violently as they did. Still, fights did break out between the two teams and their fanbases but for different reasons. The Barrels had three African-American starters on their offensive lineup, which offended Marshall greatly. He demanded that they be forced to leave the game or the Braves wouldn't play the full 60 minute regulation game. The Barrels surprisingly acted with solidarity instead of bowing to the white supremacist's requests by refusing to make their starters leave. Marshall was then reported to tell his defensive line to "do to those niggers what the Rebels did to Ashley." On the 2nd Quarter on the Barrels' 25 3rd and 10 with 1:35 left, Braves defenders went after linebacker Devon Garrish, runningback Howard Cable, and wide receiver Allen Carter. The Barrels anticipated their attempt to solely attack the three black men and faked a running play to catch the Braves completely off-guard when the Barrels' other wide receiver Charles "Philly's Hoosier" Klein[1] caught a 37 yard pass who ran it for a total 75-yard touchdown. Marshall angrily demanded that the pass not count due to the Barrels not playing their runningback. The refs would not back down for the completely fair and legal play, but when Marshall would not relent security was wisely called and he was escorted out of the stadium. The Braves head coach, who had been sidelined by Marshall's micromanagement of the team, could not stop the Barrels from rolling 4 more TDs upon them in the second half of the game, effectively ending the game in spite of the Braves' second touchdown with 11 seconds left in the game. Barrels and Braves fans once again were a whole different story: Braves fans harassed a mixed-race couple and insulted their 8 year-old mixed child. The white father promptly punched one of the offender's noses before the other hecklers ganged up on the man. Their attempt failed as 6 more Barrels fans came to the family's aid. Word of the fans' defense of the Barrels mixed family sent the Braves stands into a frenzy and began invading the home sections just to beat on Barrels fans. Guards did not hesitate to open fire and when the melee ended, 45 were dead with a quarter of them from gunshot wounds. 137 were injured and 204 fans, mostly the Braves, were arrested and held in the in-stadium jail until the game was finished.

Tennessee Titans vs Cincinnati Reds at St. Louis, Missouri: 29-25, Tennessee. The only game that was played on time, chronologically it would have been the last game played. It was instead the second game played between the NFL and CFL. News of Ashely's death by the Rebels caused St. Louis PD to have some squads work overtime to prevent any American-Confederate fighting between the fans. It was the closest game between the NFL and CFL, but ultimately the Titans won with "The Throw from God,"[2] a 72-yard bomb by QB Fredrick Lee Bragg which caused a lot of controversy due to the ball bouncing off the helmets of three players, including the receiver's. Nevertheless the catch was fair and the name was forever dubbed into gridiron history.

October 9:
Austin Texans vs San Francisco Dons at Tuscon, New Mexico: 31-34, San Francisco. This was the closest match between US and CS professional teams. Nevertheless, both teams played respectfully and after the match both teams were reported to have drinks with each other after the game.

San Diego Gulls vs New Orleans Royals at Santa Fe, New Mexico: 23-45, New Orleans. This was the most lopsided victory for the CFL against any of its US counterparts. The Gulls had a strong start with two TDs and a field goal to gain a 17-0 lead. But the Royals fought back with two back-to-back touchdowns of their own, the second being a 68-yard kickoff return into a touchdown. The Gulls scored a third TD on their first possession of the 3rd Quarter, but from that point on the Gulls mysteriously lost all their ability to play which allowed the Royals to hammer the Gulls with 4 more TDs and a field goal to boot before all 60 minutes were over.

Denver Diamondbacks vs Little Rock Runners at Nebraska City, Nebraska: 10-5, Denver. The lowest scoring of the exhibition games, it was not due to both teams lacking offense but rather both teams have extremely strong defenses. Both teams' defensive lines stuffed the opposite's offense, preventing any high-yardage passes or quarterback/runningback sneaks. Denver eventually triumphed with two field goals along with two safeties, and a gridiron record total of 42 sacks by the Diamondbacks in a professional regulation game.

Post-Exhibition and International Reaction

The two leagues reveled in their victories over the CFL and were equally saddened and outraged that the Confederate Football League would allow their players to outright kill US football players. When it was leaked from Confederate broadcasts that Featherston planned to pardon the players who killed Jerome Ashley, the Minutemen refused to have their players extradited for the revenge murder of Jefferson Ronald. Surprisingly, Jake let the whole incident go as soon as he figured he could no longer press without causing an international incident. As far as the Snake was concerned, there will be plenty of Americans to kill once his military was ready for war.

The conclusion of the exhibition games only made Featherston wonder why he put Marshall in charge of the CFL. Only one victory was extracted each from both US leagues and the Minutemen/Rebels debacle was just beyond the pale. This was the opposite of the diplomatic victory Marshall promised him, but Marshall managed to calm the serpent's anger, but it was clear from that point on no more international games would be played. Even so, many college and minor-league teams kept up international games, but none would catch the attention between the two nations like those 6 games did.

Those exhibition games were the first American gridiron football games to be broadcasted on radio internationally. The games were followed in 11 different countries, which included Haiti, Empire of Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Colombia, Empire of Brazil, Chile, Liberia, and Germany. Many of them were appalled by the Confederates' more ruthless and unprofessional play style against the NFL teams; even several letters from the international listeners came into the Minutemen clubhouse to express their condolences to the loss of Jerome Ashley. Many believed that American gridiron would be fun if it weren't for the lack of rules preventing such incidents from breaking out between teams or their fans. It would be after the Second Great War that the United States Football League would force many changes and new rules to prevent incidents like the Minutemen/Rebels match from ever happening again.

1: Any Phillies fans might know this guy. He won the MVP award in 1932 and was one of the 14 men to hit four home runs in a single game during the 20th Century.
2: Try to guess what this was inspired from.

A/N: Just in case some of you didn't notice, I did re-edit my previous American Football article to add more Confederate teams. I remember stating that more Confederate teams were flourishing in spite of the coming Great Depression. Also, I revived the Dons but I'm afraid they're stuck permanently in San Francisco, Nivek.

 

[Tiro]

Splendid Work all you gifted creators - please do keep up the good work!

 

[GeorgeUK]

1974 World Cup is in production; I'm just trying to work out who to add.

I was thinking:
Pot 1: Eastern Europe
Poland (co-hosts)
Lithuania (co-hosts)
Bulgaria
Austria-Hungary

Pot 2: Western Europe
Germany
Italy
Netherlands
Britain

Pot 3: South America
Brazil (holder)
Argentina
Chile
Uruguay

Pot 4: Rest of World
Australia
Haiti
United States
German Congo