Neato. This one kind of reminds me of the Raptor you did a while ago. Also, good job with the coloring too. I've noticed you've been doing it more.
TL-191: Featherston's Finest - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the CSA and Freedom Party
- Thread starter Alterwright
- Start date
CSAF: 1945
An hypothetical paint scheme for the proposed Austin Aviation & Motor Works XAP-1104 fighter.
In December of 1943, the Austin company would submit this design to the Confederate Air Force, which was unorthodox given the position of the propellers are within the fuselage rather than in either the pusher and the front positions or on the wings. Powering it aloft was an Austin AAM-107 engine with a projected speed of 356 mph, as well as having the provision of having a RATO unit in the tail to assist in take-off. Armament would consist of a pair of 20mm Hispano-Suiza cannons and two 13mm heavy machine-guns in the nose as well as accommodating two 155mm or 6.1 inch Mark 8 unguided rockets for use against enemy bombers from beyond the effective range of their defenses.
A speculative scheme of a Talbot T-45 Firecrest fighter if the war lasted into 1945.
The T-45 design would originally go back to August of 1939 as a requirement by the Confederate Navy for a purpose built carrier based fighter-plane with a potential ability to also double as a dive bomber. But as the War entered it's second year, the misfortunes of the Navy in the Atlantic and the increasing pain brought on by the Union Bombing Campaign meant that the design, at this time, the XTNP-447, would be redesigned for land-based use. Powered by a Schofield SF-101 Mercury engine powering to the maximum speed of 350 mph and also had a range of 3,500 miles on internal fuel tanks. The plane was to be armed with four 20mm cannons and up to six 155mm Mark 8 rockets with proximity fuses for anti-bomber use, or for ground attack, 16 3-inch rockets or up to 2,000 lbs of bombs. A total of 350 planes would be planned for production with the first ones to enter service in September of 1944 at the earliest, but the end of the war meant that only 2 prototypes and 7 production aircraft would be completed.
An hypothetical paint scheme for the proposed Austin Aviation & Motor Works XAP-1104 fighter.
In December of 1943, the Austin company would submit this design to the Confederate Air Force, which was unorthodox given the position of the propellers are within the fuselage rather than in either the pusher and the front positions or on the wings. Powering it aloft was an Austin AAM-107 engine with a projected speed of 356 mph, as well as having the provision of having a RATO unit in the tail to assist in take-off. Armament would consist of a pair of 20mm Hispano-Suiza cannons and two 13mm heavy machine-guns in the nose as well as accommodating two 155mm or 6.1 inch Mark 8 unguided rockets for use against enemy bombers from beyond the effective range of their defenses.
A speculative scheme of a Talbot T-45 Firecrest fighter if the war lasted into 1945.
The T-45 design would originally go back to August of 1939 as a requirement by the Confederate Navy for a purpose built carrier based fighter-plane with a potential ability to also double as a dive bomber. But as the War entered it's second year, the misfortunes of the Navy in the Atlantic and the increasing pain brought on by the Union Bombing Campaign meant that the design, at this time, the XTNP-447, would be redesigned for land-based use. Powered by a Schofield SF-101 Mercury engine powering to the maximum speed of 350 mph and also had a range of 3,500 miles on internal fuel tanks. The plane was to be armed with four 20mm cannons and up to six 155mm Mark 8 rockets with proximity fuses for anti-bomber use, or for ground attack, 16 3-inch rockets or up to 2,000 lbs of bombs. A total of 350 planes would be planned for production with the first ones to enter service in September of 1944 at the earliest, but the end of the war meant that only 2 prototypes and 7 production aircraft would be completed.
Pangur
Donor
Weird design, I do wonder about how much space there would be inside and how much `fun' it would be to being loading both cannon at the same time
It's supposed to be TL-191's version of the Maus, you can read it's background story on page 16 of this thread.
Dixie-45
F-381 Thunder Hound
By 1943 the writing was on the wall for the CSA but admitting defeat was not an option In Featherston's Confederacy and so designers and weapons makers strived to come up with newer and more powerful weapon systems.
The F-381 Thunder Hound started life as a simple and interesting idea which was to take the venerable F-38 Hound dog and increase it's horsepower by adding a second engine.
As novel as the idea was it wasn't really feasible, the Hound Dog was designed to be as small and sleek as possible for speed and agility. there simply was no room for a second engine but a new proposal was made to remove the engine from the nose and mount an engine in each wing, this would double the horsepower and make room for more weaponry in the now vacant nose.
The idea while a simple one was not as easily executed, the wings needed to be enlarged and redesigned to take an engine and the tail required redesigning as well, it was also decided to give the new design a tricycle landing gear which again required more re-engineering.
Another problem arose when government officials in charge of supplies and acquisitions protested the new design that required two expensive inline V-12 engines for a single seat fighter when one engine was all that was needed for a fighter already in production and so the designers settled for two slightly less powerful but less expensive radial engines, radial engines were used primarily for bomber aircraft and the CSA was doing very little bombing by 43.
A new design was finally settled upon by late 1943 but the new plane bore only a slight resemblance to the once vaunted Hound Dog and used very few common components.
In the end a single prototype was completed the day before the CSA officially surrendered and the Thunder Hound prototype was destroyed without ever taking to the sky.
Like Featherston's dream of a larger more powerful CSA , the Thunder Hound went up in smoke.
F-381 Thunder Hound
By 1943 the writing was on the wall for the CSA but admitting defeat was not an option In Featherston's Confederacy and so designers and weapons makers strived to come up with newer and more powerful weapon systems.
The F-381 Thunder Hound started life as a simple and interesting idea which was to take the venerable F-38 Hound dog and increase it's horsepower by adding a second engine.
As novel as the idea was it wasn't really feasible, the Hound Dog was designed to be as small and sleek as possible for speed and agility. there simply was no room for a second engine but a new proposal was made to remove the engine from the nose and mount an engine in each wing, this would double the horsepower and make room for more weaponry in the now vacant nose.
The idea while a simple one was not as easily executed, the wings needed to be enlarged and redesigned to take an engine and the tail required redesigning as well, it was also decided to give the new design a tricycle landing gear which again required more re-engineering.
Another problem arose when government officials in charge of supplies and acquisitions protested the new design that required two expensive inline V-12 engines for a single seat fighter when one engine was all that was needed for a fighter already in production and so the designers settled for two slightly less powerful but less expensive radial engines, radial engines were used primarily for bomber aircraft and the CSA was doing very little bombing by 43.
A new design was finally settled upon by late 1943 but the new plane bore only a slight resemblance to the once vaunted Hound Dog and used very few common components.
In the end a single prototype was completed the day before the CSA officially surrendered and the Thunder Hound prototype was destroyed without ever taking to the sky.
Like Featherston's dream of a larger more powerful CSA , the Thunder Hound went up in smoke.
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In OTL there was the Red Baron that have a Culture Icon years after the War.
In Tl191 If Red Baron somehow Survived the FGW,
Will there a Dixie version of the Red Baron like name Butter Baron in the American Front?
In Tl191 If Red Baron somehow Survived the FGW,
Will there a Dixie version of the Red Baron like name Butter Baron in the American Front?
There are no Barons in the CSA or the US but I cam imagine Aces with high scores getting nicknames but it wouldn't be something like Butternut or Butter because most CS planes would probably be painted the same way and the Red baron got his nickname because only his plane was red when most other airplanes were painted in camo schemes.
So maybe something like "The Duke of Dixie"?
I know there will be a dark suggestion, but I could totally see the Freedom Guard (1) using this in the Camps
This is a Srbosjek or in English "Serbs Cutter"
It was used by Ustase to Slaughter the Serbs by Cutting their necks in the Concentration Camps especially in Jasenovac.
It was used by Ustase Militia to killed Thousands prisoners and likely Civilians Alike too (2)
It also Used to Speedy up Massacre even more.
I think this will be Perfect suit for for the Freedom Guards, they are Fanatics and Nationalist as fuck and Surprised tolerance with Minorities like with Bosnian muslims and Hispanics .
And some Importantly, They are Demon in Human skin so it matches in Hell.
(1) The name, Freedom Party Guard is a mouth full and it Lazy Uncreative names.
SS isn't name the Nazis Party Guard for a reason, Hell if you just Erased with the word "Party"
FG is much more better to said and better name.
Also Other names like maybe "Guardian of Freedom, Guardian of The South/Dixie"
Those are Much better than the Freedom Party Guard.
(2) It not Proven, but it likely that Ustase bastards used the Serbs Cutter to kill Civilians
This is a Srbosjek or in English "Serbs Cutter"
It was used by Ustase to Slaughter the Serbs by Cutting their necks in the Concentration Camps especially in Jasenovac.
It was used by Ustase Militia to killed Thousands prisoners and likely Civilians Alike too (2)
It also Used to Speedy up Massacre even more.
I think this will be Perfect suit for for the Freedom Guards, they are Fanatics and Nationalist as fuck and Surprised tolerance with Minorities like with Bosnian muslims and Hispanics .
And some Importantly, They are Demon in Human skin so it matches in Hell.
(1) The name, Freedom Party Guard is a mouth full and it Lazy Uncreative names.
SS isn't name the Nazis Party Guard for a reason, Hell if you just Erased with the word "Party"
FG is much more better to said and better name.
Also Other names like maybe "Guardian of Freedom, Guardian of The South/Dixie"
Those are Much better than the Freedom Party Guard.
(2) It not Proven, but it likely that Ustase bastards used the Serbs Cutter to kill Civilians
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Nasty.
How about FPGs for the freedom party guards or fucking bastards as their prisoners probably called them.
Unfortunately, while Mr. Turtledove is good at making characters, hes not quite as creative as our nerdiness would like with creating things like that. I would personally think that "Security Service" would fit better. Keeps the intent of the otl name Schutzstaffel, and sounds a bit more Anglophone.
I don't think that sort of weapon would be quite approrpiate though. The southern whites didn't quite have the same viscerial hatred that Serbs and Croats have for each other ingrained by centuries of military and religious conflict and feuds. Plus the entire operation is meant to be more clinical, like the Nazi's attempts to industrialize the Holocaust. The camp guards had problems with suicides from the start of the exterminations, so adding little knives into the mix would only cause that to get worse.
A better idea might to be to assign that to Southern partisans, who were shown to be that viscious at times, such as when Leonard O'Doull's orderly who I foget the name of was murdered.
Prisoners will probably just called them “Southern Devils/ Demon” because No Human being will never stoop that low.
The Reason they probably use the Serb Cutter or this Case, the Nergo Cutter is that it’s a Agricultural tools from farming industry’s in CSA.
Freedom party guards is just a Boring name for Organizing that killed Millions of Blacks, Haitian and US POWs.
We need a new names that strikes fear and actually make sense.
Well I do get your point with the Serbs and Croats hated boner for Centuries, but I think the Southerners Whites will make that into child’s play.
The Confederacy was created because of Slavering Entire Races, A property that you sell, a things that is lower than dirt that’s pretty much the Africans with the Confederates
Confederacy will treated them like properly Unlike the Serbs that would that least be Threat to the Croatia.
Serbs and Croats nations didn’t Started Existing for Enslaved a Entire Race, that was the Confederacy.
They will be hated and Full of scorn at the Blacks that they could be even easier to Demonize and Dehumanize to Killed than Serbs or Jews because of their Skin color and status as them lower than dirt in Dixie Society.
Plus, you think about it is Much More Cheaper with using these cutters than just using Gas Vans and Gas Chambers.
You’re right about the Southern Partisan and Militia’s who be Happy to joined in the Slaughter of the Blacks and Cutting weapons will “Help to Solve the Nego Problem”
geez I feel dirty writing that, but hey Hatred is Powerful and Destructive things
Yes and no. While the Confederacy's society had the slave system and substequent second class "non-citizen" status of blacks as a core componently, saying that it existed simply to enslave people is extremely off the mark. It also misinterprets the traditional relationship between white southerners and blacks, which up until the Freedom Party was more one of paternal condescensionthan the mindless hatred you seem to assume.
What I was refering to was that Southern partisans would use them in any sort of fighting. Both against US troops and against local collaborators. Partisans wouldn't have anything to do with the Population Reductions as they exist in territory already under US control. Likewise, militias wouldn't tend to be involved either, as it was almsot entirely a Freedom Party affair to eliminate the camp inmates.
Its not quite the same as the dehumanization of Croats by Serbs and Serbs by Croats or Jews by Germans that existed in Europe, which is not defined by skin color and instead by centuries old feuds. The Freedom Party elimination of the black population is, again, similar to Hitlers views on the Jews, a rational (to him) means of saving the world by removing what he percieved as the greatest threat to civilzation. Likewise, the situation in the TL-191 South is more of a rational reaction to a twisted worldview than it is a deeply personal hatred that requires getting even in such a personal manner as throat slitting.
If I may add my penny’s worth, one would suggest that it’s quite important to stick with American precedents for the sort of informal cruelties practiced by the guards of the various concentration camps - and let’s be honest, the Jim Crow south has more than enough to work with, even if we don’t include the actual Slavery Days - all to make it more painfully clear that this horrible, horrible regime is more possible than is strictly comfortable to contemplate.
That is, after all, a key theme of Timeline 191 at it’s Best: that it could happen here (‘here’ being North America) and that the United States of America is very, very lucky it has not yet done so (More to the point, it makes the point that preventing this sort of cruelty from happening takes continuing effort and that it is vitally important that we keep making the effort to deny this cruelty license).
So it seems only fair to point out that importing a Balkan tradition into the Confederates States doesn’t quite fit that theme - not least because the CSA always made a point of exalting it’s own Anglo-Saxon roots and might well disdain such ‘imports’ with lordly contempt (Heck, Southern contempt for German immigrants was often absolute; the various peoples of the Balkans might well be truly beyond the pale…).
That is, after all, a key theme of Timeline 191 at it’s Best: that it could happen here (‘here’ being North America) and that the United States of America is very, very lucky it has not yet done so (More to the point, it makes the point that preventing this sort of cruelty from happening takes continuing effort and that it is vitally important that we keep making the effort to deny this cruelty license).
So it seems only fair to point out that importing a Balkan tradition into the Confederates States doesn’t quite fit that theme - not least because the CSA always made a point of exalting it’s own Anglo-Saxon roots and might well disdain such ‘imports’ with lordly contempt (Heck, Southern contempt for German immigrants was often absolute; the various peoples of the Balkans might well be truly beyond the pale…).
Also, I feel that the name ‘Freedom Party Guard’ works perfectly well, since it emphasises the steady, insidious increase of the Freedom Party’s power (As the guard goes from Featherston’s bodyguard to an interstate security force of terrible power); it also quietly emphasises how all-encompassing the Party intends to be.
They don’t change the name at any point because, so far as the Stalwarts are concerned, the Freedom Party becomes the Confederate States and the CSA must become the Freedom Party (So the Party Guard is the protector of the whole Confederacy, at least under this theory).
Also, the Freedom Party Guard doesn’t need a name that strikes fear - it needs a name that conveys legitimacy, since the Freedom Party Guards are already fearsome brutes.
They don’t change the name at any point because, so far as the Stalwarts are concerned, the Freedom Party becomes the Confederate States and the CSA must become the Freedom Party (So the Party Guard is the protector of the whole Confederacy, at least under this theory).
Also, the Freedom Party Guard doesn’t need a name that strikes fear - it needs a name that conveys legitimacy, since the Freedom Party Guards are already fearsome brutes.
