For clarification, this thread is intended to generate discussion on specific time periods framed within Harry Turtledove's TL-191 "Southern Victory" series, in which the Confederate States of America win the Civil War and become their own nation.
Another question for you guys: Do you think the Confederacy would have a presence in China in this timeline? If so, how do you think events would play out now that the United States has a rival, even in this far corner of the world?
Again, keeping in mind the world Turtledove has created, perhaps the Confederacy would try and reach out toward the Pacific. Not as a colonial power though, not like Britain or France. After all it did fight a war over the purchase of Mexican land so that it could gain access to the Pacific. No doubt it would be in direct competition with the United States and in fact the bitter rivalry between the two cannot be ignored. It is a constant factor.
American traders seemed to have had an interest in China and Far East even before the Civil War, especially when it comes to profitable goods that can be traded for a lucrative price. In fact by the time of the Civil War there was already a small American presence China concentrated in the port city of Canton (Guangzhou), and in fact US marine and sailors were dispatched routinely along the Pearl River and coast of China to handle rioting, fires, and pirates as far back as 1844.
Even up until 1859 US marines and sailors from the U.S.S. Mississippi (which took part in Matthew Perry’s Japan expedition to open the country and also took part in the U.S. blockade of the South) were dispatched to protect American citizens in Shanghai as the British and Qing forces fought each other during the Second Opium War while the Taiping Rebellion was going on.
In fact this presence in China by both the Confederacy and the United States can go into the 20th Century really, from the Boxer Rebellion of 1900 all the way up to the Battles of Shanghai and Nanking in the 1930s. Again, perhaps both nations may not have a presence here in this time, but again if they did I believe it might offer some interesting minor deviations in the TL-191 world. And with a hated rival in the form of the Confederacy, perhaps the small events in China involving the United States might have played out differently. Whether the Confederacy would even have a presence in Asia or the Pacific is up to you.
What do you guys think? Interesting topic? Dumb idea? Let me know!
Here are some wikipedia links to help you gain an idea of the American presence in China and Asia up until WWII:
- The Boxer Rebellion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion
- Old China Trade - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_China_Trade
- Concessions in Tianjin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concessions_in_Tianjin#American_concession
- Shanghai International Settlement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlement
- Yangtze Patrol - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangtze_Patrol
- Yangtze Steamers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboats_on_the_Yangtze_River#US_involvement
- Panay Incident - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Panay_incident
- The Formosa Expedition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formosa_Expedition
- The Korean Expedition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_expedition_to_Korea
- French Campaign Against Korea - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_campaign_against_Korea
- The General Sherman Incident - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Sherman_incident
- Shimenoseki Campaign - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimonoseki_Campaign