TL-191: After the End

[Kuamong]

Finally an update, and was it worth it. It seems that TL-191 is finally seeing something positive happening to it.

 

[Turquoise Blue]

Could you please list the presidential nominations in the elections after 1952, please? And VPs, if possible.

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

Geez, how many states are there now?

 

[The Kiat]

Geez, how many states are there now?

Not enough!

Despite that, I really don't see why all those little islands are seperate states. Why not just have the State of West Indies or Antilles?

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Absolutely wonderful update David, I enjoyed how you covered the whole decade. I look forward to September!

*Note: This list contains Presidents (those succeeding Seymour and Blaine) that are not part of the canon. If anyone feels like they have a better idea for Presidents #18, 19, 22, 25, 26, and 27, please let me know.

Presidents of the United States:
1. George Washington (I-VA): April 30th, 1789-March 4th, 1797
2. John Adams (F-MA): March 4th, 1797-March 4th, 1801
3. Thomas Jefferson (DR-VA): March 4th, 1801-March 4th, 1809
4. James Madison (DR-VA): March 4th, 1809-March 4th, 1817
5. James Monroe (DR-VA): March 4th, 1817-March 4th, 1825
6. John Quincy Adams (DR-MA): March 4th, 1825-March 4th, 1829
7. Andrew Jackson (D-TN): March 4th, 1829-March 4th, 1837
8. Martin Van Buren (D-NY): March 4th, 1837-March 4th, 1841
9. William Henry Harrison (W-OH): March 4th, 1841-April 4th, 1841[1]
10. John Tyler, Jr. (W-VA): April 4th, 1841-March 4th, 1845
11. James Knox Polk (D-TN): March 4th, 1845-March 4th, 1849
12. Zachary Taylor (W-LA): March 4th, 1849-July 9th, 1850
13. Millard Fillmore (W-NY): July 9th, 1850-March 4th, 1853
14. Franklin Pierce (D-NH): March 4th, 1853-March 4th, 1857
15. James Buchanan (D-PA): March 4th, 1857-March 4th, 1861
16. Abraham Lincoln (R-IL): March 4th, 1861-March 4th, 1865
17. Horatio Seymour (D-NY): March 4th, 1865-March 4th, 1869
18. George Hunt Pendleton (D-OH): March 4th, 1869-March 4th, 1873
19. James Asheton Bayard Jr. (D-DE): March 4th, 1873-March 4th, 1877
20. Samuel Jones Tilden (D-NY): March 4th. 1877-March 4th, 1881
21. James Gillespie Blaine (R-ME): March 4th, 1881-March 4th, 1885
22. Stephen Grover Cleveland (D-NY): March 4th, 1885-March 4th, 1889
23. Alfred Thayer Mahan (D-NY): March 4, 1889-March 4, 1897
24. Thomas Brackett Reed (D-ME): March 4th, 1897-December 7th, 1902[2]
25. Marcus Alonzo Hanna (D-OH): December 7th, 1902-February 15th, 1904
26. William McKinley Jr. (D-OH): February 15th, 1904-March 4th, 1909
27. Elihu Root (D-NY): March 4th, 1909-March 4th, 1913
28. Theodore Roosevelt (D-NY): March 4th, 1913-March 4th, 1921
29. Upton Sinclair, Jr. (S-NJ): March 4th, 1921-March 4th, 1929
30. Hosea Blackford (S-DA): March 4th, 1929-March 4th, 1933
31. Herbert Hoover (D-CA): February 1st, 1933-February 1st, 1937
32. Alfred Emanuel Smith Jr. (S-NY): February 1st, 1937-March 27th, 1942[3][4]
33. Charles W. La Follette (S-WI): March 27th, 1942-February 1st, 1945
34. Thomas Edmund Dewey (D-NY): February 1st, 1945-February 1st, 1953
35. Harry S. Truman (D-MO): February 1st, 1953-February 1st, 1961
36. Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (S-MN): February 1st, 1961-February 1st, 1973[5]
37. Joshua Blackford (D-NY): February 1st, 1973-[6]

Independent
Federalist
Democratic-Republican
Democrat
Whig
Republican
Socialist

[1] First President to die in office.
[2] Died in office.
[3] First Roman Catholic President.
[4] Assassinated
[5] Served more than two terms.
[6] First Jewish President.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Here's the world on the eve of 1980. David, please let me know where I messed up.

 

[Umbric Man]

The US conquered all the Lesser Antilles as well? Gosh.

What are the Caribbean states?

1. Bahamas (with Bermuda?)
2. Jamaica
3. Cuba
4-on: ???

 

[Nevermore]

What a decade the '70s was. Alternate social movements, fun looks into film and literature, several men went into space (and two went to the moon!). Progress marches on in Africa much better than OTL. Very fun stuff. And rvbomally is right: that was a great joke, Dave. Loving the alt-space programs too.

The United States' juggernaut continues to be unmatched, it would seem. Somehow, I think the world is going to continue to fare much better in regards to its wealth compared to OTL. It seems to be much more evenly spread out without openly hostile powers anymore. Of course, if Bharat and the Chennai Pact are any indication, this could surely change, I suppose. Hopefully it doesn't come to that...

South America and Central America, with the exception of Brazil, have remained pretty quiet. I think it might be time for an update on them soon, yeah? Same with the U.K. and France.

Not sure how to feel about China's and Russia's political developments at the moment. It's great that they'll actually be free in the future (and in the case of China, we know when it'll begin to change) but Turov's president of choosing a successor seems fishy to me, at least in terms of the precedent it could potentially set. Though I have to say: wither poor Tibet. Can't catch a break OTL or here, it would seem. Then again, I suppose getting rid of a theocratic monarch is never a bad thing.

Rhodesia and South Africa brought to heel, eh? Seems like it's going to be rough sailing for the foreseeable future. At least, I suppose, the ex-Stalwarts don't have many more places to run off to. This seems to be the end of the line for them. Good news for seemingly most in the continent, though, especially the new DWV. Interesting that the Germans let the Congo go, however...

Trouble in paradise for the Ottomans as well. If the Georgians are calling for autonomy and being funneled weapons and cash by the Russians, I'd imagine sooner or later the Arabs will do the same thing. The Russo-Kazakh War in 1985 doesn't sound good either, that's for sure.

I have to ask, though: when did the Spanish have a military coup? I don't recall reading that in any of the previous updates, even if it's admittedly been quite a while. Anyway: great work on the map and updated presidential list, Arkhangelsk. Three cheers for President Reynolds as well!

 

[Petike]

Links to updated POTUS list and the late 1979 map of the world added to the TL's page.

 

[David bar Elias]

Awesome as always. Looking forward to the September update.

To make this TL more accessible to newcomer readers, I'm going to make a chapter guide on the TL's official page, listing all the updates so far.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

Very good work

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.

Another great update! Now I'm tempted to work on a Doctor Lexington map.

I'd be curious to see it.

Haha, I love this. TL-191 is so implausible that even its inhabitants are calling it out.

Well, at least in a satirical way.

Finally an update, and was it worth it. It seems that TL-191 is finally seeing something positive happening to it.

Happy to oblige. And we still have a few more decades to go.

Despite that, I really don't see why all those little islands are seperate states. Why not just have the State of West Indies or Antilles?

Largely because of the informal deal between the Socialists and Democrats on statehood admissions. In the 1970s, the Democrats gain a large number of House seats from the re-admitted Southern states, and the Socialists gain a large number of senators from the new Caribbean states.

Absolutely wonderful update David, I enjoyed how you covered the whole decade. I look forward to September!

Thanks! I hope you enjoy the remaining three updates.

*Note: This list contains Presidents (those succeeding Seymour and Blaine) that are not part of the canon. If anyone feels like they have a better idea for Presidents #18, 19, 22, 25, 26, and 27, please let me know.

Just a minor note: starting with President Dewey's first term, new presidential terms begin on January 20.

Here's the world on the eve of 1980. David, please let me know where I messed up.

Fantastic map! The only thing that I think needs to be changed is that the Italians still control former British Somaliland.

The US conquered all the Lesser Antilles as well? Gosh.

Not really conquered. Most were acquired in the Treaty of Aachen, which ended the Second Great War.

What a decade the '70s was. Alternate social movements, fun looks into film and literature, several men went into space (and two went to the moon!). Progress marches on in Africa much better than OTL. Very fun stuff. And rvbomally is right: that was a great joke, Dave. Loving the alt-space programs too.

Thanks. It was refreshing to cover a large amount of history in this update.

The United States' juggernaut continues to be unmatched, it would seem. Somehow, I think the world is going to continue to fare much better in regards to its wealth compared to OTL. It seems to be much more evenly spread out without openly hostile powers anymore. Of course, if Bharat and the Chennai Pact are any indication, this could surely change, I suppose. Hopefully it doesn't come to that...

Overall, it does seem that way, and we still have a few decades left before the TL ends.

South America and Central America, with the exception of Brazil, have remained pretty quiet. I think it might be time for an update on them soon, yeah? Same with the U.K. and France.

I do plan to go into more detail about the Empire of Brazil for the 1980s update. I did include a bit more detail for the 1970s about Britain and France, but there will be more detail for next update.

Not sure how to feel about China's and Russia's political developments at the moment. It's great that they'll actually be free in the future (and in the case of China, we know when it'll begin to change) but Turov's president of choosing a successor seems fishy to me, at least in terms of the precedent it could potentially set. Though I have to say: wither poor Tibet. Can't catch a break OTL or here, it would seem. Then again, I suppose getting rid of a theocratic monarch is never a bad thing.

By "handpicked" in regards to Russia's changing of the guard, I was referring to the candidate that Turov chose to endorse.

Zhuang Lin's rule in China is somewhat similar in its form to Paul Kagame's OTL governance in Rwanda (post genocide). Like I said in the update, the Chinese Republic's current system of governance will not last forever.

Rhodesia and South Africa brought to heel, eh? Seems like it's going to be rough sailing for the foreseeable future. At least, I suppose, the ex-Stalwarts don't have many more places to run off to. This seems to be the end of the line for them. Good news for seemingly most in the continent, though, especially the new DWV. Interesting that the Germans let the Congo go, however...

Many of the worst ex-Confederate war criminal fugitives have been either captured or killed by 1980, particularly after the OSS's missions during the South African War. Though even in the 1980s, there are those who have evaded capture.

Trouble in paradise for the Ottomans as well. If the Georgians are calling for autonomy and being funneled weapons and cash by the Russians, I'd imagine sooner or later the Arabs will do the same thing. The Russo-Kazakh War in 1985 doesn't sound good either, that's for sure.

During the 1970s, its mostly money being supplied by the Russians. Things on that front will take a turn for a worse during the first half of the 1980s.

The Russo-Kazakh War certainly will certainly be bad.

I have to ask, though: when did the Spanish have a military coup? I don't recall reading that in any of the previous updates, even if it's admittedly been quite a while. Anyway: great work on the map and updated presidential list, Arkhangelsk. Three cheers for President Reynolds as well!

In TL-191, apparently the Spanish still had a civil war in the 1930s; I believe that it was between the monarchists (supported by Germany) and the Nationalists (supported by Britain and France).

 

[rvbomally]

A WIP on Doctor Lexington. I wanted to post it here so people can have their input. I took the comparison to The Man in the High Castle and the nature of the nihilist movement and ran with it. The PoD is the Snake giving Professor FitzBelmont the funding he wanted in 1941. The US superbomb program is attacked earlier and with more success. Meanwhile, in Europe, the British invasion of Norway succeeds. The war ends with the Entente launching crippling superbomb strikes against the Central Powers. Many of the cities bombed are still ruined and the Entente occasionally uses them for testing bioweapons (I assume that Unit 731's actions make testing bioweapons on civilians is a cheap way to draw parallels to the Ishii regime). The Central Powers have been utterly dismembered and become playgrounds for the sociopathic leaders of the Entente.

After the war, the Entente turned on one another. The French have defended Quebec against the machinations of Canada's McGregor regime, and as payback the Anglo-Japanese alliance moved against the French in Indochina. The French and Russians have formed the Continental Entente to curb the British and Japanese, while the Freedom Party works on consolidating its power in the New World as an unaligned kingmaker. The Continental Entente and the Anglo-Japanese alliance faced off against one another in what was called the "Silent War," where the two sides feared superbomb and sunbomb annihilation. However, by the beginning of the book, conflicting interests in Afghanistan have started a war between the Russians and British-aligned Afghanistan. It's only a matter of time before the war expands and the entire world is plunged in another death struggle.

 

[LeftsideLock]

Excellent work, DBE. The 70s were awesome! But dammit, I wanted the Americans on the moon first! But like the President said, there's always Mars...

 

[Lord Insane]

Just a minor point, but it appears that President Blackford negotiated a moratorium on superbomb/sunbomb testing with Chancellor Bayer at a point when Bayer had already been replaced as Chancellor by Kunibert Mann.

 

[Petike]

A WIP on Doctor Lexington.

This is as equally excellent as Dave's update.

Since Bliss' book is TL 191's analogue to TMITHC, is there also an analogue of The Grasshoper Lies Heavy within its narrative ? That would be absolutely sweet... I can see a Doctor Lexington character hawking a book like that : "Imagine a world, where the Confederacy lost in 1944 and the world is ruled by the US and Russia after they defeated Germany and Austria-Hungary..." Yeah, it's come full circle and now sounds nearly like post-WWII OTL.

 

[Petike]

Oh, and I knew this would come in handy one day :

A painting based on the famous photograph of Conrad Reck-Malleczewen's first steps on the Moon.

 

[Milarqui]

Great update! I really loved how the 1970s fared. And Spain finally gets a mention! (Also have to say that the way things go in Spain look a bit similar to the Arab Spring...)

Can't wait to read the 80s, and what happens. See you!

 

[GeorgeUK]

Has Britain actually started to recover yet?

 

[Turquoise Blue]

This is as equally excellent as Dave's update.

Since Bliss' book is TL 191's analogue to TMITHC, is there also an analogue of The Grasshoper Lies Heavy within its narrative ? That would be absolutely sweet... I can see a Doctor Lexington character hawking a book like that : "Imagine a world, where the Confederacy lost in 1944 and the world is ruled by the US and Russia after they defeated Germany and Austria-Hungary..." Yeah, it's come full circle and now sounds nearly like post-WWII OTL.

First. That is awesome. Maybe call it The Man in the White House?

And, David, could you provide me with a list of tickets for the US elections from 1952 to the current date?

 

[Vingilótë]

Has Britain actually started to recover yet?

There was mention of how Anglo-French firms are pulling a Japan, because of how they can't compete with the massive advantages afforded to German firms, so they are concentrating on innovation and efficiency.

 

[David bar Elias]

A WIP on Doctor Lexington.

SNIP

Excellent write up! Consider it cannon.

Excellent work, DBE. The 70s were awesome! But dammit, I wanted the Americans on the moon first! But like the President said, there's always Mars...

And beyond Mars, there's always somewhere new.

Just a minor point, but it appears that President Blackford negotiated a moratorium on superbomb/sunbomb testing with Chancellor Bayer at a point when Bayer had already been replaced as Chancellor by Kunibert Mann.

Thanks for catching that. Edited.

This is as equally excellent as Dave's update.

Since Bliss' book is TL 191's analogue to TMITHC, is there also an analogue of The Grasshoper Lies Heavy within its narrative ? That would be absolutely sweet... I can see a Doctor Lexington character hawking a book like that : "Imagine a world, where the Confederacy lost in 1944 and the world is ruled by the US and Russia after they defeated Germany and Austria-Hungary..." Yeah, it's come full circle and now sounds nearly like post-WWII OTL.

The Day of the Fat Beetles, perhaps?

Oh, and I knew this would come in handy one day :

A painting based on the famous photograph of Conrad Reck-Malleczewen's first steps on the Moon.

Good find! Thanks for posting it.

Great update! I really loved how the 1970s fared. And Spain finally gets a mention! (Also have to say that the way things go in Spain look a bit similar to the Arab Spring...)

I'm glad you approve. I hope I was able to make Spain's situation in TTL believable.

Has Britain actually started to recover yet?

They have, by the 1980s. And things will continue to improve for them (and France) into the 21st century.

And, David, could you provide me with a list of tickets for the US elections from 1952 to the current date?

Winners are listed first (sorry for lack of Vice Presidents. I can send a second list later if you want):

1952: Harry Truman (D) vs. Adlai Stevenson II (S) and Harold Stassen (R).

1956: Harry Truman (D) vs. William Averell Harriman (S) and Harold Stassen (R)

1960: Hubert Humphrey (S) vs. John W. Bricker (D) and Harold Stassen (R)

1964: Hubert Humphrey (S) vs. Henry Cabot Lodge (D) and Walter Judd (R)

1968: Hubert Humphrey (S) vs. James Rhodes (D) and Bryson Briggs (R)

1972: Joshua Blackford (D) vs. Terrance Hobson (S) and Philip Ioannidis (R)

1976: Joshua Blackford (D) vs. Dwight O'Hare (S) and George Sidney (R)

There was mention of how Anglo-French firms are pulling a Japan, because of how they can't compete with the massive advantages afforded to German firms, so they are concentrating on innovation and efficiency.

Ayup. More or less this.